Why Do US Brewers Try To Replicate Branded Beers ?

[phatuna]

Where did the OP get his data arguing that brewers from the US enjoy cloning more than people from other parts of the world?

I think the answer is because we are all herded like cattle in the US and nobody has a mind of our own, so we just copy what others before us have done. It's way easier that way and we have learned to enjoy mediocraty here in the US.

 

[LVBen]

I could make a 5-gallon Stone IPA clone for less than $20 in ingredients and few extra costs here and there (Gas and electric bills, bottle caps, expendable equipment, etc.). For me to buy that much Stone IPA at the store would be over $120. No, probably not all clones will be cheaper than the commercial product for a brewer, but in many cases, you can save lots of money by brewing your own.

 

[D_Struct]

I'm really doing commercial clones for the simple reason of wanting to see if I can somewhat accurately replicate a beer's taste, appearance, etc. It gives me a benchmark w/ a testable sample. I can simply compare the two.

If the first dozen or so go the way I want, and I feel like I'm grasping the clones and the entire brewing process (after moving through extract, mini-mash and all grain versions), I'll feel more comfortable striking out on my own.

If I still enjoy making commercial knock-offs, I might try to add something to them. I might make some slight changes to the original recipe that I find appealing. Who knows? It's a hobby. It's supposed to be about what the individual wants to do with it, not what someone else thinks they should do with it.

 

[D_Struct]

Fair comment

The clone that I am currently fermenting was from the Celis Brewery, which closed down in Austin sometime in the early 2000s. I used to go the the brewery regularly.

Michigan Brewing Co. purchased the name and recipe much later, but it's only distributed in Michigan, presently.

Sounded like a good enough reason to me.

 

[slowbie]

The clone that I am currently fermenting was from the Celis Brewery, which closed down in Austin sometime in the early 2000s. I used to go the the brewery regularly.

Michigan Brewing Co. purchased the name and recipe much later, but it's only distributed in Michigan, presently.

Sounded like a good enough reason to me.

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

 

[ArcaneXor]

No, it doesn't.

Personal Preference is personal preference. Saying "I like my homebrew better" is completely different than saying "Its a fact that my homebrew IS better beer".

One is a subjective thing. The other involves blind taste tests by qualified judges of the style.

It's homebrew... the only thing that matters is how the brewer likes it. What some anonymous judge thinks about it is meaningless.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

It was a Pierre Cellis collaborative offshoot of the former Hoegaarden wit. The beer made at Autin was touted by Celis as extremely close to his original product. A beer that has over the years been dumbed down to what you can now buy as the Hoegaarden Wit.

A good beer. I'd be thrilled to taste what the original wit was all about. It is described as being crisper, brighter, with more lactic twang than what is found today.

 

[D_Struct]

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

Well, if you can find Celis, there's a good chance it's good. My personal opinion, of course.

They still make a Celis White, Grand Cru, Celis Raspberry and a Pale Bock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celis

 

[olllllo]

Hmmm. Perhaps I'm mistaken in my thinking that all UK homebrewers are obsessed with making their Granddads version of Newcastle.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I think the real questions here are whether or not Warwickshire, UK is hiding weapons of mass destruction and then whether or not we should nuke dem bastids back to the stone age!!!


On a half serious note, I don't think I realized we colonists really cloned more than anyone else or that we even do it a lot. I have 8 or 9 beers going right now. One is clone because it is a fantastic beer (Russian River's Consecration), one is in the ballpark of a clone (Clipper City IPA... because I just happen to really like that IPA) and then the rest aren't clones at all.

So... on the clones, I guess I'll offer up what other have already... that there's challenge in it to see if you can get it dead on and then secondarily... I think people just happen to really like certain beers... so... if you're into brewing, why not try to brew a beer you know you really like?

 

[MrInternet]

Hmmm. Perhaps I'm mistaken in my thinking that all UK homebrewers are obsessed with making their Granddads version of Newcastle.

And here I thought all UK homebrewers were obsessed with recreating "real ales" and the original recipes for everything Green King has since bought... hmmm...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Well, if you can find Celis, there's a good chance it's good. My personal opinion, of course.

They still make a Celis White, Grand Cru, Celis Raspberry and a Pale Bock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celis

Interesting. IIRC, it was alluded in Brewing with wheat that Celis helped tweak the Austin White but didn;t actually develope it. That the beer was a commemorative effort as a show of respect to the original.

 

[Synovia]

It's homebrew... the only thing that matters is how the brewer likes it. What some anonymous judge thinks about it is meaningless.

If you're making the claim that you like you're beer better than commercial, yes.,



If you're saying that "Its a fact my beer is better than all commercial beers" then no, its not meaningless. The OP was stating that nobody should clone commercial beers because commercial beers are by their very nature terrible. I very strongly disagree with this.

 

[McKBrew]

I honestly can't think of a single beer I would like to clone exactly. I like many commercial beers, and as I haven't brewed in months, I drink more commericial. There are favorites that I go back to all the time like Black Butte Porter for example. However, if I were going to make a porter, I can think of things I would want to tweak to make it "better".

It does take skill to exactly clone a beer and I totally respect that, but if I want DFH 60min IPA, I'll buy it. If I'm making my own IPA, I'm going to do something different.

 

[brewagentjay]

Where did the OP get his data arguing that brewers from the US enjoy cloning more than people from other parts of the world?

I think the answer is because we are all herded like cattle in the US and nobody has a mind of our own, so we just copy what others before us have done. It's way easier that way and we have learned to enjoy mediocraty here in the US.

That was rather large assumption...Why must anyone in a country or outside it for that matter lump everyone in the same bucket? I don't like to be in a bucket....Like they know each every single person they just talked about....

Let me ask you a question...Do you know me? Answer is more than likely NO.

Side note it's not the US that just copys what others have done. Since Beer has been around for ever and most the same ingredients have been around a while, reguardless if you think your making your own thing it's been done mroe than likely a time or two....:rockin:

 

[remilard]

Really? better study history alittle more, corn was used in place of malt to save money. Same for the Belgian brewers using sugar--- its cheaper than malt.

You couldn't be more wrong. Adjuncts were originally used in US brewing because the domestic 6 row malt had too much protein to make good beer. The first adjunct lagers were the most expensive beers, more expensive than all malt lagers and ales.

 

[carnevoodoo]

You couldn't be more wrong. Adjuncts were originally used in US brewing because the domestic 6 row malt had too much protein to make good beer. The first adjunct lagers were the most expensive beers, more expensive than all malt lagers and ales.

What this guy said.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

It interests me that so many US homebrewers try to replicate certain beers.
Why do you do this?

I like McEwan's Scotch Ale & Watney's Cream Stout. I can no longer get either here in the US, so the only way I can get a reasonable facsimile of them without spending $6 (or more) per pint is to make them myself.
As my brewing skills progress, I'll start to formulate my own (for lack of a better term) "original" recipes & brew them up; maybe I'll even come up with something BETTER than McEwan's or Watney's! Regards, GF.

 

[phatuna]

That was rather large assumption...Why must anyone in a country or outside it for that matter lump everyone in the same bucket? I don't like to be in a bucket....Like they know each every single person they just talked about....

Let me ask you a question...Do you know me? Answer is more than likely NO.

Side note it's not the US that just copys what others have done. Since Beer has been around for ever and most the same ingredients have been around a while, reguardless if you think your making your own thing it's been done mroe than likely a time or two....:rockin:

Jay, you and I are saying the same thing. I was being facetious. :cross:

I can't understand why someone would feel the need to bring the US into this equation. Has the guy ever stepped foot on US soil?

Sorry for stirring the pot here a bit, but that's what we do here right?

 

[BioBeing]

In my attempt to clone beers like Fuller's London Pride, Young's Winter Warmer etc I have visited several English beers forums where the posters are also trying to clone beers such as these.

Look at one of the classic "clone brews" books too: David Line's Brewing beers like those you buy. Even the CAMRA book has "comprehensive recipes for recreating some of Britain's best-loved beers". Sounds like a clone to me. [USA version available soon!]

So the assumption that this is only an American thing is bollocks.

I did, however, spend 3 years in Warwickshire, UK, and can attest to the fact that it is (or was 20 odd years ago) pretty much a beer wasteland. No local craft brews spring to my mind. There were some good pubs though. And, of course, the Student Union where the beer was at least cheap if not good.

As to why I clone beers: I am trying to recreate some of the beers from my homeland that I can not find here. I have only been brewing for a year, and figure I am using this to try and get a better feel for the ingredients. If I know what a beer tastes like when these ingredients are used in their "correct" proportions, then I can use that knowledge to try and tweak it for the second or third batch.

Or, if I am simply looking for a good recipe, I might use a clone. For example, Yooper's DFH 60 min. Many people have brewed Yooper's recipe and loved the result, and its a great commercial IPA. It is a safe recipe to start from. I have made it 3 times so far, varying things each time like yeast, hops, mash temps etc. Was my last batch, using Wyeast 1967, and with a tweaked grain bill a true clone? I dunno, but it did win silver in our local homebrew contest.

So when cooking, johnnyboy, did you NEVER follow a recipe someone else had made?

 

[Handle]

People try to replicate beers they enjoy drinking.

Why have we gone ten pages in trying to explain something that needs no explanation?

 

[GoldMiner]

I make clones because I have some idea what they will taste like.

I make my own recipes when I want to experiment.

 

[PanzerBanana]

I've been wondering that to. I personally find it much more satisfying to crack open an original beer. It's also fun cooking with your own beers. My stout makes some tasty sautes. hehe

 

[pen25]

because we cant get fat tire in oklahoma ;-)

 

[SC_Ryan]

I was going to suggest that the OP was someones AE (alter ego) and that this thread was started just to get a rise out of people. That was before he qualified himself as a "chef". Chefs are worse than Lawyers. They all think their gods gift....

 

[passedpawn]

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If you don't already know the answer to this question, then you will never understand the answer.
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[TipsyDragon]

It interests me that so many US homebrewers try to replicate certain beers.
Why do you do this?

i've wondered this myself. being an american homebrewer i don't try to replicate commercial brews. but i do use recipes out of a book so its effectively the same thing. i'm replicating someones beer just not a commercial beer. i do this because i know the recipe will taste good and i don't have the experience or nerve to make my own recipes. i think others replicate commercial brews for similar reasons. they like the beer they buy and want to make their own. if they follow the recipe they will end up with a beer they like.

 

[Synovia]

i've wondered this myself. being an american homebrewer i don't try to replicate commercial brews. but i do use recipes out of a book so its effectively the same thing. i'm replicating someones beer just not a commercial beer.

Most of the style examples in books are clones of commercial brews. So, essentially you're cloning a clone of a commercial beer.

 

[PanzerBanana]

Still a clone you didn't start it from scratch you started with something you already know you like or might like....:rockin:

All you're doing is splitting hairs. "It's still technically a clone because someone some where probably put similar amounts of the same ingredients into their beer". Seriously?

Being that the same four ingredients have been used for several hundred years, thousand if you don't start from reinheitsgebot. EVERYONE is doing variations of the exact same thing.

And the real difference between original and "clone". When you're "cloning" a beer, you're just going by a recipe.

When you're crafting your own, you're going over the ingredients you want to use. You're thinking about which grains and ingredients will give the character you're seeking.

You try different styles of beer similar to what you have in mind. You taste your ingredients separately, you taste the wort as you brew. You smell the hops, you try to find the distinction in hops that are similar.

You try different yeasts and familiarize yourself with how they act during fermentation.

When you make original beer, you work to develop an understanding of your ingredients, the same as any chef.

Also creating original beers, gives trolls a minute and obvious detail to point out in a vain attempt to seem clever.

 

[PatientZero]

When I was less experienced than I currently am (and I'm still no whiz...), I did it to gain a little experience. It was comfortable ground to replicate something I knew I'd like. If I just winged it the first time I brewed, how well do you think my beer would've turned out? Maybe palatable, but highly unlikely.

Now the only time I ever clonebrew is because of laziness. Brew day shows up all of a sudden and I haven't prepared, so I just do a quick search for a clonebrew and dash out to the LHBS.

Really, it seems like a stupid question in the first place. Sorry we don't have God's gift of hundreds of years of brewing experience. If you don't like something about the way we do things, there's no reason to call us out on it. It's like me asking "Man, I hate the way the UK does things. Why do you guys make ESBs, Brown Ales, and London Porters that you've been making for HUNDREDS of years?"

Why don't YOU give us something new? And then we'll copy it for REEEEAL cheap.

 

[OsbornBrewing]

johnny take the question back a level to, and ask:
Why do homebrewers brew their own beer?

I brew a few clones for the same reason I do not try to rework the recipe for a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich.

 

[NorCalAngler]

...because we like to irritate elitists that think any recipe based on a commercial craft beer is substandard. Is that the answer you're looking for?

 

[PT Ray]

I brew a few clones for the same reason I do not try to rework the recipe for a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich.

Exactly!

There are a lot of commercial beers that have defined the style, many times I want to clone that one commercial beer that started it all. For me to try and improve or put my on spin on it would be an injustice. It's almost like a respect thing.

 

[eppo]

Personally I would only brew a clone of something I can't buy. For instance I have heard moose drool is a very good brown ale. I plan to brew up that clone.

 

[brewagentjay]

I can't believe this thread still has life

 

[SteveM]

I think the original premise is incorrect anyway. If you base your question on what you read on this forum, you are limiting your population. Having been to dozens of beer tastings, I will say that most home brewers don't attempt to replicate commercial beers. I know I don't - I tried it once, with decent results (check my recipes), but I, and other brewers I know, would rather explore what you can't buy.

 

[rayg]

Some brewers are worried they will make a bad beer
if they try their own recipe, so they go with clone
kits. Some want to give something recognizable to
their friends.

I don't make clones, I get ideas for flavors from
commercial beers but prefer to get a unique mix of
flavors that I like that I can call "mine". But most
young people aren't individualists, mostly for them
its trying to go along with the crowd.

Ray

 

[Photopilot]

If I was going to buy a six pack, what beer would I want? If I want a keg on my back porch, what beer would I want? The fact that I brewed it myself is just a bonus.

 

[mightynintendo]

I have only tried to clone one beer, and only because it is one of my fiance's favorite beers and I want to brew something for her. It's a NB 1554 I actually haven't even brewed it yet. So why would you want to clone a beer? Because it's delicious! I mean, why do you think people follow recipes when cooking? Sure, when I'm feeling experimental I might just throw a bunch of **** in the pot and hope it turns into really good chili, but you have to start somewhere. If you're new to making chili perhaps you don't know that a combination of both italian sausage and ground beef makes a big difference over ground turkey. Or that blanching the hot peppers and then pureeing them in a blender makes the spice come out more. How will you learn this without some form of training? Some people learn by getting a graduate degree in brewing sciences, and others, like most of us here, learn by experimenting with recipes. And if you have a beer your recipe is "supposed" to taste like, what better way to analyze your successes or failures?

 

[mightynintendo]

You try different styles of beer similar to what you have in mind. You taste your ingredients separately, you taste the wort as you brew. You smell the hops, you try to find the distinction in hops that are similar.

I don't know about you but my wort generally tastes like ass by the time i'm done boiling. I stay away from tasting it as much as possible! All those nasty unconditioned hop oils and irish moss and stuff floating around lends to a pretty gross flavor profile. Then the yeast do their magic and voila! I will say, however that pre-boil wort is pretty tasty.