Why design a recipe for over 100IBU

[seanppp]

There are many IPA recipes where the "theoretical" bitterness is significantly over 100IBU, even though it's pretty well understood that you can only actually get 100IBU in solution. My question is, aren't the bittering hop additions that bring it over 100IBU just a waste?

I'm aware that there must be *some* reason for doing this. I know Jamil Zanicheff talks about Pliny The Elder and how somehow the hop resins actually add to the mouthfeel. If you look at the Pliny recipe (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf) you'll see that the 3.5 oz of Columbus at 90 minutes already gives you over 150 IBU.

So, what are the reasons? What do you get from bittering hop additions that are beyond the bitterness saturation point?

 

[broadbill]

there is more to hops than IBUs.

 

[atom]

why not?

 

[RonPopeil]

there is more to hops than IBUs.

This.

Basically, you need a certain amount of bitterness to carry a beer. In a hoppy IPA or something of the sort this usually means your bittering addition is about 80% of your gravity or 0.8 BU:GU. Once that is acheived hop additions are merely for flavor an aroma. It's not about IBU's anymore it's about seasoning the beer. So, with this mindset, it becomes very easy to make a 1.074 OG beer that gains 60+ IBU from bittering and another 30-40 IBU from flavor additions.

Numbers are good for the process but what really matters is what the beer tastes like. Rather than trying to stick to numbers when, as a homebrewer, your ability to accurately measure IBU, SRM and to an extent even ABV is rather limited; focus on what your beer tastes like and don't be afraid to go against the numbers and make the changes you need to make.

For what it's worth, DFH claims their 60 minute is 60IBU and 6% ABV and the 90 minute is 9% ABV and 90IBU. Are those numbers accurate? Does it really matter whether or not they are?

 

[AnOldUR]

There's actual bitterness, calculated bitterness and perceived bitterness. Three very different things!


And none of it speaks directly to aroma and flavor.

 

[seanppp]

I understand the responses here, but I don't think they get to the heart of my question. Why did Vinnie Cillurzo design the Pliny recipe with more IBUs in the first addition than is possible to be soluble in solution. One would think he was throwing hops away. But obviously he wouldn't do that, so there must be something more than just bitterness that he is getting from that first addition. What is it?

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

To say I brewed a beer with x amount of IBU's??????

And as far as don't be afraid to go against the numbers, some numbers are there for reasons. I made a beer I hopped the ever lovin $%!t out of and wound up with 5 gallons of perfume. Still have a few bottles hanging around and after months it's still not any better. Haven't found anyone that remotely liked any of it. Myself included.


Sent from somewhere to someone

 

[Calder]

There are many IPA recipes where the "theoretical" bitterness is significantly over 100IBU, even though it's pretty well understood that you can only actually get 100IBU in solution.

Is it pretty well understood? I have seen discussion on it with no real evidence. I've also seen published articles where well over 100 IBUs were measured in wort (not finished beer). I agree there is probably a point where you can reach saturation, but I don't believe it is conviently at 100.

I also suspect that as you approach saturation you get diminishing returns; that is, as you get closer to saturation, it takes more hops for each IBU. So to actually get to say 90 IBUs, you might have to use enough hops that theoretically get you to 150, or 180, or ......

 

[seanppp]

I'm still not getting an answer to my question. What do early kettle hops add other than IBUs.

 

[Croyzen]

Want to know for sure? Do the work. Brew the same recipe over and over again and change the hop schedule. Simple as that.

There have been so many things in brewing that have been "pretty well understood" only to be not so well understood a few years later.

 

[grainbill]

here is my take: as IPA's age, they lose the hops, the higher the original IBU's the longer the IPA can "age"

 

[Beezer94]

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.1/tinseth.html

By far the most common way that hops are used is to add them to the brew kettle and boil them in sweet wort. In long boils (30-120 min), hops accomplish four primary functions: they add bitterness through the isomerization (rearrangement without change of composition) of a-acids into more stable and soluble iso-a-acids; they assist in the production of a good hot break by supplying tannins that combine with unwanted proteins; they add to beer stability by virtue of their antibacterial properties; and they lower the surface tension of the wort so that a vigorous boil can be more easily maintained.

Changing bittering hops on a light beer that does not have specific flavor/aroma hop additions can make a noticable difference. There is still flavor/aroma components and plant materials that survive a 60 minute boil, just to a much lower extent that briefly boiled or non-boiled hops.