Why all the erlenmeyer flasks?

[WI_Wino]

A tip I learned the hard way, don't drop your stir plate magnet in right after you turn off the heat. A geyser of hot wort erupts making a total disaster of the stove.

 

[IslandLizard]

I find it much easier to boil the starter wort in a stainless pot on the ceramic top kitchen stove or induction plate. After a few minutes boiling I put the lid on and let simmer for another few minutes. Chill in a tub with cold water, refreshing once or twice. Then pour into sanitized flasks.

Note: I tend to make more than one starter at a time, thus requiring a gallon or more of starter wort. A large pot makes that simpler. I use one drop of Fermcap-S per gallon.

Maybe not quite as sanitary as boiling in the flask itself, but honestly, the surface temperature of that ceramic top is scary. I never had an unintended infection in my starters (or beer) from this method.

 

[FreddyMar3]

I just went on to check Morebeer to make sure my 5L flask is borosilicate and i stumbled across this. Anyone use this method?
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"Recommended Process for Use of Flask: Double Boiler Method

It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.

Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."

 

[balrog]

I low tech the whole process. Boil in open saucepan, put on lid and stick in fridge, pour into a growler I've chosen for the flattest bottom, set on PC fan homemade stirplate. One man's method.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just went on to check Morebeer to make sure my 5L flask is borosilicate and i stumbled across this. Anyone use this method?
------------------
"Recommended Process for Use of Flask: Double Boiler Method

It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.

Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."

Using double boilers would drive us nuts, way too slow. I wish they were as diligent with their warnings by pointing out the risks of handling (glass) carboys.

Maybe OK when making custard or tempering chocolate.

 

[Newsman]

Just for giggles, would it be OK to use a propane torch to heat up a flask? Thinking we did essentially the same in science class with a Bunsen burner, although that generally had a piece of something similar to hardware cloth between the flask and the flame, but still... pretty much a clear shot for the flame.

 

[Gavin C]

I just went on to check Morebeer to make sure my 5L flask is borosilicate and i stumbled across this. Anyone use this method?
------------------
"Recommended Process for Use of Flask: Double Boiler Method

It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.

Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."

Morebeer's lawyers have been editing the website by the looks of that disclaimer. Can't imagine anyone using a double boiler method for making a starter. Use a pot anyday over that.

A pot works just perfectly if making it in the flask is not safe given your stove and/or question mark over your flask's material.

Made a starter in my 5L flask yesterday evening. 5 mins prep, popped it on the stove and ate dinner.

No watching over it is needed if you use FermcapS. Everything (not the yeast of course) goes in at the start. Water DME, stir bar, pinch of nutrient, 1 drop FermcapS.

 

[AkBrew907]

Mason jar will work but it's tough to balance it just right so it won't throw a stir bar. Flask with flat bottom works better, plus like mentioned it looks cooler.

 

[Saboral]

It is a pain to try to add and mix the DME into the boiling water in the flask. What I do now is mix the dme and water together in a bowl, with a whip, and pour into the flask using a funnel. Then I put the flask on the stove (a gas stove) and heat to boiling. Chill in the sink, pitch yeast, and put on a stir plate.

This is more along the lines of how I intend to use it.

 

[kombat]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using canned wort yet. It eliminates a ton of the risks and challenges of boiling in your flask.

• Difficulty of funneling DME into a flask containing hot water (sticks to the mouth, clumps, etc.)
• Risk of volcano when achieving boil, when adding stir bar, adding yeast nutrient, etc.
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while heating
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while shock-cooling
• Time spent waiting for wort to boil, then waiting for it to cool

Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using canned wort yet. It eliminates a ton of the risks and challenges of boiling in your flask.

• Difficulty of funneling DME into a flask containing hot water (sticks to the mouth, clumps, etc.)
• Risk of volcano when achieving boil, when adding stir bar, adding yeast nutrient, etc.
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while heating
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while shock-cooling
• Time spent waiting for wort to boil, then waiting for it to cool

Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.

Isn't the process of canning labor intensive? Does one need a large pressure cooker or is boiling water good enough for wort?

Occasionally I save or prepare starter wort and freeze it. They're typically at 1.072, double starter gravity to save space. I still feel I need to re-boil them before use though.

 

[passedpawn]

Isn't the process of canning labor intensive? Does one needs a large pressure cooker or is boiling water good enough for wort?

Occasionally I save or prepare starter wort and freeze it. They're typically at 1.072, double starter gravity to save space. I still feel I need to re-boil them before use though.

If you're going to can and store at room temps, and then you're going to use the wort without boiling it first, you need to use a pressure canner (not cooker; canners can get to 15psi/250F, cookers usually stop at 12psi).

If freezing the wort, canning isn't necessary. Also, if you're saving wort with the intent to boil it later (i.e., don't need DME to make starter), you don't need to can it.

But, the flask think is very easy and trouble-free if you do it right, especially if you compare to canning wort, so I disagree with Kombat, but I'm not going to enter a debate on it.

 

[kombat]

the flask think is very easy and trouble-free if you do it right, especially if you compare to canning wort

Canning does involve some specialized equipment, and does take comparable time to preparing a starter fresh, but the key advantage (in my opinion) is that you can do it whenever you have some free time, rather than being forced to find time to do it 3 days before brew day.

 

[Newsman]

As others have said... Canning and freezing are about equally good at saving wort for later, i.e. as a starter. Just in canning, it's easier to make a couple gallons at once and store them in mason jars at room temp, so you don't tie up precious freezer space you can use for other things, such as ice cream, etc.
Both make it easier to save wort for the future and eliminate the need for making a starter at the last minute, but neither of them completely eliminate the need for an E flask, as an Erlenmyer flask helps make a starter, especially on a stir plate, with their flat bottom for the stir bar to sit on.

 

[Gavin C]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using canned wort yet. It eliminates a ton of the risks and challenges of boiling in your flask.

• Difficulty of funneling DME into a flask containing hot water (sticks to the mouth, clumps, etc.)
• Risk of volcano when achieving boil, when adding stir bar, adding yeast nutrient, etc.
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while heating
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while shock-cooling
• Time spent waiting for wort to boil, then waiting for it to cool

Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.

I'm not going to try to convert you kombat. If I had a pressure canner I'd be using that too. However making a starter in a flask is truly a simple, hassle-free task that takes all of 5 mins of actual work. The rest is, as you rightly say waiting.

Fortunately time is not of the essence for me. I pop the starter on when making dinner. After it comes to a boil for 1 minute I turn off the gas and pop it in the sink. Later on in the evening I ready my yeast and pitch it.

With the right materials and methods it is an entirely hum-drum, labor-unintensive task.

This is what you want to avoid.

(image courtesy of @ryantollefson )

Solution: Add DME to cold water (or better still add DME to empty flask)

If worried about boil-overs and eruptions (valid concerns)

Solution: Add stir-bar, and nutrient (optional) and Fermcap S after adding the DME (still cold)

The right tools for the job

There is no disputing that making a starter without having precanned wort will take longer. But it's somewhat misleading to list the other points when they are so easily rendered non-issues.

Havn't we had this discussion before.

As someone who does make use of this approach to starter making, I can assure anyone thinking about it that it is very simple and as risk-free as anything we do in brewing. The key is having the right tools and correct method.

 

[passedpawn]

Solution: Add DME to cold water

I would add DME to dry flask. Then add water. It's so much easier that way.

 

[passedpawn]

There is no disputing that making a starter without having precanned wort will take longer.

Wait, are you taking into consideration the time it takes to do the canning?

 

[Gavin C]

I would add DME to dry flask. Then add water. It's so much easier that way.

+1 That is what I do but thought as lots of folks do it the other way to simply make the contrast hot-v-cold

Makes getting the right volume a cinch. Add DME, add water to target volume for SG ~1.04

 

[WI_Wino]

I would add DME to dry flask. Then add water. It's so much easier that way.

x2

 

[Gavin C]

Wait, are you taking into consideration the time it takes to do the canning?

No, but I thought i would concede that point as I have no idea how long that takes. The other points, I do have experience with.

I figure what Kombat means is that once it's done, you've got your stock-pile of starter and it takes no time after that.

 

[kombat]

Wait, are you taking into consideration the time it takes to do the canning?

I figure what Kombat means is that once it's done, you've got your stock-pile of starter and it takes no time after that.

Exactly - I was talking merely about the night you have to actually prepare your starter, which for me is typically a Wednesday night, to give the starter time to finish and cold crash before brew day (Saturday).

The time it takes to actually can the wort probably actually takes slightly longer (because you have to pour it into individual jars instead of one giant flask), but you can do it whenever you have some free time, rather than being constrained to having to do it on a particular day (i.e., 3 days prior to brew day).

You also don't have to worry about boil-overs, shattering your flask, scraping burnt wort off your stove top, splashing unsanitized chilling water into your wort, etc.

I've actually submitted an article on the topic to Austin, but for some reason, he's gone radio-silent and I haven't gotten any response at all from him.

 

[Gavin C]

danger!, danger!, Will Robinson

 

[hunter_le five]

I've actually submitted an article on the topic to Austin, but for some reason, he's gone radio-silent and I haven't gotten any response at all from him.

He's on hiatus, I believe.

Try sending it to @ScrewyBrewer.

 

[kombat]

Thanks for the tip, PM sent.

 

[ggriffi]

Pro tip in regards to Borosilicate and boiling capabilities -- it does not like electric stove coils

I recall my mom having a Pyrex teapot years ago and it came with a star shaped metal wire/rod that you had to put underneath of the teapot if you had an electric stove, which she did

 

[Munster51]

It takes around an hour in a pressure canner start to finish. That is from the time you put it on the stove until you pull the jars out after they have cooled. I can can, haha, around 12 pints at a time in mine. I have not tried canning wort yet though. I would assume you could use second runnings to can.

 

[ArcLight]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned using canned wort yet. It eliminates a ton of the risks and challenges of boiling in your flask.

• Difficulty of funneling DME into a flask containing hot water (sticks to the mouth, clumps, etc.)
• Risk of volcano when achieving boil, when adding stir bar, adding yeast nutrient, etc.
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while heating
• Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while shock-cooling
• Time spent waiting for wort to boil, then waiting for it to cool

Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.

Because of the risk of botulism.
If you want to pre-make wort for long term use (stored in canning jars) invest in a pressure canner.

 

[MaxStout]

Lab glassware (flasks) that is labeled Pyrex is borosilicate glass, regardless of who made it or when.

Kitchen cookware labeled Pyrex (i.e., measuring cups and caseroles) might not be borosilicate. I read that all uppercase "PYREX" is borosilicate, but lower case "Pyrex" or "pyrex" is probably soda-lime glass.

I do have a 2L cheap flask that isn't marked at all except with the gradations. That one I don't trust. My 4L is marked PYREX England.

View attachment 302993

View attachment 302994​

It gets even more complicated, as Corning stopped producing Pyrex in the late '90s and licensed the trademark to numerous companies. The US companies quickly changed the formula to ordinary lime glass (cheaper), but the European mfrs. continued with borosilicate. There have been some cases of people assuming that all Pyrex is heat-resistant, and getting hurt when the vessel breaks.

 

[thekraken]

If freezing the wort, canning isn't necessary. Also, if you're saving wort with the intent to boil it later (i.e., don't need DME to make starter), you don't need to can it.

Just to clarify: if you are saving wort with the intent to boil it later, *and you freeze it*, you don't need to can it. But even if you are boiling before using it, it still needs to be canned, *sterilized*, and sealed up tight before it can be stored at above freezing.


Also, I hear that if your going to can some all grain wort its a good idea to boil it uncovered in a kettle to drive off the dms before canning. No worries about this with dme however.

 

[Scriv]

You can't make level 10 beer geek using mason jars.