Why 1.5x the boil for a brewpot?

[evrose]

Do you think they would say you need to filter your beer if what is left behind isn't potentially harmful?

Yes. Especially if BIKO is better connected and has a more powerful lobby than their competitors. The FDA doesn't run studies like this. They review data presented to them by industry - most of which is heavily biased.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Yes. Especially if BIKO is better connected and has a more powerful lobby than their competitors. The FDA doesn't run studies like this. They review data presented to them by industry - most of which is heavily biased.

Then go right ahead and eat silicone, Doctor. I'll abstain.

Are you telling the HBT community it's OK to consume whatever silicone is left behind?

 

[tre9er]

Question: Is there a warning label on Fermcap-S that states it's harmful or that you need to filter the beer? Wouldn't you think it would be legally required if it wasn't safe, such as "has been known to cause cancer in labratory rats" on Sweet N Lo?

 

[baddad]

Sweet n low , didn't always have that warning. A lot of people had to get sick , and sue the company and the FDA for them to put it on

 

[dallasdb]

What does it do if you eat too much?

Your ****s get bigger!

 

[tre9er]

Sweet n low , didn't always have that warning. A lot of people had to get sick , and sue the company and the FDA for them to put it on

The product has also been around for a very, very long time, before many new policies were passed pertaining to food and drug safety. Nowadays with the drug commercials and their mile-long list of disclaimers, I'd think they'd have to note this sort of thing on the packaging.

 

[evrose]

Then go right ahead and eat silicone, Doctor. I'll abstain.

Are you telling the HBT community it's OK to consume whatever silicone is left behind?

I'm not saying one thing or another... I'm simply saying that just because some committee at the FDA says something, doesn't make it true. I've known enough FDA docs and scientists, and sat in enough meetings with them to be highly skeptical of any statement like this that they make.

I'd bet my left kidney, 3/4th of my liver, and a 10 gallon batch of Caribou Slobber that there are no long term, controlled studies looking for the health consequences of consuming a couple of drops of a chemical that contains a small fraction of silicone. That doesn't mean it's safe, but it also doesn't mean it's not. I'd also be willing to bet that the ALCOHOL in your beer has more potential health effects than 10ppm of silicone.

Silicone is a pretty inert chemical... It's used in cookware all the time. Heck, I stir my wort with a silicone spoon. It's also a major component in a wide variety of medical devices, including many that are placed internally. It's considered a very safe, biocompatible element.

 

[Yooper]

Your ****s get bigger!

I can only hope.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I'm not saying one thing or another...

Good move.

 

[Gameface]

Your ****s get bigger!

Sounds like it's time to brew an orange honey wheat beer with extra fermcap-S and have my wife invite her friends over for girls night.

 

[MisterTipsy]

It's worth noting that dimethylpolysiloxane (silicone) has been used in food since the 70s. It was found to be not harmful to lab animals in the 70s by the World Health Organization. The FDA set the 10ppm limit for "ready to eat" food in 1995.

Dow chemical makes dimethylpolysiloxane. Few companies have deeper pockets than Dow, but clearly a more powerful, anti-silicone company must have bribed the FDA to get the 10ppm limit established.

Dimethylpolysiloxane is also found in Silly Putty and Chicken McNuggets, so you know it's good stuff!

Personally, I don't think it is anything to panic about, but I encourage you to ask yourself if the risk is worth the reward when using it isn't necessary at all.

Cheers!

 

[Gameface]

So then, what's the limit based on? What happens if you consume 11ppm? Or what if I go crazy and consume 100ppm? Just saying, "we don't recommend you eat silicone" is far different than saying that it is actually harmful.

 

[MisterTipsy]

So then, what's the limit based on? What happens if you consume 11ppm? Or what if I go crazy and consume 100ppm? Just saying, "we don't recommend you eat silicone" is far different than saying that it is actually harmful.

I can't easily find the study, so I can't answer your question, but I'm fairly certain there is some science behind the 10ppm limit.

Perhaps someone will volunteer to drink a whole bottle of fermentap S so we can get some real answers? (NO...don't do that!)

 

[tre9er]

Also, what happens when the levels are exceeded? Usually recommendations like this tell you that "has been found to cause XYZ in high dosages or after continual exposure". Do we grow a 6th toe? Lose our teeth? A second.....

 

[day_trippr]

Also, what happens when the levels are exceeded? Usually recommendations like this tell you that "has been found to cause XYZ in high dosages or after continual exposure". Do we grow a 6th toe? Lose our teeth? A second.....

I believe it has been established that your "****s get bigger".
Yes, that's it. "****s get bigger".

hth

Cheers!

 

[MisterTipsy]

I believe it has been established that your "****s get bigger".
Yes, that's it. "****s get bigger".

hth

Cheers!

When a snake bites a silicone ****, it dies.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/snakes_dies_of_silicone_poisoning_BW3UBtoDvsmZj6Be7n2r4O

 

[TheBrewinator]

Hence the problem with the 10 ppm limit, the FDA does not cite its sources for the limit (I read the document) and it certainly isn't based on peer reviewed literature (I went through several refinement categories on SciFinder related to dimethylpolysiloxane and its biological/toxicological effects).

 

[MisterTipsy]

I can't find any info on how they determined 10ppm is a safe limit for food. Humans are allowed to take 200mg per day of dimethylpolysiloxane for therapeutic uses which is more than you are going to consume by drinking beer made with fermentap S. However, it appears that the therapeutic use isn't a long term application.

It should also be noted that "virtually all" of the ingested silicone is excreted out your back door.

 

[Denny]

Also, what happens when the levels are exceeded? Usually recommendations like this tell you that "has been found to cause XYZ in high dosages or after continual exposure". Do we grow a 6th toe? Lose our teeth? A second.....

IIRC, it clogs up your kidneys, impairing their function.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Hence the problem with the 10 ppm limit, the FDA does not cite its sources for the limit (I read the document) and it certainly isn't based on peer reviewed literature (I went through several refinement categories on SciFinder related to dimethylpolysiloxane and its biological/toxicological effects).

My best guess is Dow chemical is the source and the standard was set to minimize their product liability.

 

[SoupNazi]

Many foods processers use this chemical to control foam in sauces and cold filled products. Its not filtered before it hits your plate!

I've read that this chemical drops out of solution quickly and into the trub during fermentation. So if you aren't racking your trub into your beer, wipe your brow.

 

[malevolent]

Fermcap-s is your friend. 53 or so gallons in a 55 gallon drum is scary as hell even with fermcap.