Who has made a tripel? (Yeast Question)

[mhenry41h]

I'm using beersmith to fool around with a recipe for a Tripel. One thing stands out to me as a big problem. The BJCP style guidlines call for an OG range of 1.075-1.085 with a TG of 1.008-1.014. Im a new brewer and certainly not experienced enough to see things from every angle, but explain how Belgian yeast strains with an attenutation range of 74-78% can achieve that goal? A Tripel is a dry high-gravity ale and I assume that most people who have attempted to make one end up around 1.020 with a sweet beer rather than a dry one. All I can figure is to make a second starter and nail that sucker again when the first pitch poops out. Again, I'm new to the game but I would assume that a second pitch of yeast only has enough sugar to successfully attenuate down to your desired range...anybody???

 

[USMCYoder]

I know that most Trappist/abbey yeasts attenuate up to 80% on average, but can go higher up.

Proper pitch of yeast will help. Also a lower mash temp will allow the sugars to be more fermentable. That and throwing in refined sugar will allow the yeast to plow through it and bring down the FG.

I am planning a big beer, not sure if I want a dubble or tripel, but will just let it sit till I hit those numbers

 

[jmo88]

Those ranges are not really realistic. At least from my experience and those of other brewers on this site. Every Belgian I have done has fermented over 90%. Granted I've only worked with Saisons and Golden strongs, because that's what I like.

Anyway, If you ferment with a rising temp, say 65F with a gradual increase to 80F or so the yeast will continue to stay active and eat. Also, many Belgian beers use table sugar, which will also increase the fermentability of the wort, resulting in a drier beer. Some beers use as much as 25% simple sugar. Rising fermentation temp and using simple sugars is the key to a higher attenuation in these styles.

 

[CreekBrewery]

The attenuation range that yeast labs give is for wort (not sure exactly the specs of the wort they use) and things change when you use sugar. The way I work it out is to figure out the beer without sugar to get a good idea of the FG expected then add sugar to get to the OG I want. Since regular sugar will ferment about 100% the FG won't really change when you add it in.

+1 to the other tips. A couple other things I do is to add the sugar in 1/3s after fermentation and swirl ,NOT SHAKE , the carboy to keep that yeast roused up.

 

[mhenry41h]

That is where I am getting confused then. I would really like to use Wyeast #3522 Belgian Ardennes and Wyeast's site list the attenutation range at 74-78%. My plan would be using 40% Belgian Pale, 40% Belgian Pils 5% Caravienne, and 15% Clear Belgian Candi Sugar. Styrian Goldings and Tettnang Hops. My OG would be guessed at 1.075 with a TG at 1.019.(However, I dont want 1.019...I prefer something like 1.010 -1.012)The recipe wont allow me to do so. Looking at those attenutation rates made me step back and wonder how it would work out!

 

[jmo88]

That is where I am getting confused then. I would really like to use Wyeast #3522 Belgian Ardennes and Wyeast's site list the attenutation range at 74-78%. My plan would be using 40% Belgian Pale, 40% Belgian Pils 5% Caravienne, and 15% Clear Belgian Candi Sugar. Styrian Goldings and Tettnang Hops. My OG would be guessed at 1.075 with a TG at 1.019. Looking at those attenutation rates made me step back and wonder how it would work out!

Just a tip for you on that Belgian candi sugar: don't waste your money on clear candi sugar. Use table sugar, you won't be able to tell the difference. Darker candi sugar actually imparts flavor, while clear doesn't.

 

[marc06]

I agree with using table sugar over the belgian candi sugar. I have brewed Jamil's Belgian Dark strong with the $6 belgian candi sugar and the grocery store sugar and didn't notice a difference. I recently brewed 10 gallons of a Belgian Strong Golden ale and 10 gallons of a Belgian Dark strong ale with WLP570 and I had ~87% attenuation with both. This white labs strain for Belgians has the lowest attenuation of all the Belgian strains from white labs yeast (Hieronymus 2005). I only added half of the sugar during the boil and added the other half during fermentation. I started fermentation at 64 and let it naturally rise to 70-72. The last few gravity points I added heat and let the temperature rise to 78.

Hope that helps!

Hieronymus, S. 2005. Brew Like a Monk. pg 174.

 

[StMarcos]

My fav yeast for tripple is trap high grav, fermented on the lower end of the temp scale. Cane sugar works just fine.

 

[GuldTuborg]

The recipe wont allow me to do so.

Not sure what you mean by this. Those attenuation numbers given out by the manufacturers are very general figures of what you'll see with an all malt wort, held somewhere in the middle of the recommended temp range, mashed at pretty typical temperatures and with a pretty average gravity. It's kind of a baseline to let you know how well it might ferment in relation to other strains. Lots of things can and will change what kind of attenuation you get. Use your recipe and follow the temp advice given above, and you'll see 80+ attenuation. Believe me, lots of people do it all the time here.

 

[AmandaK]

I used Wyeast 3522 on a tripel a few months back. OG 1078, FG 1012. Added my sugar at the end of the boil.

Best beer I've made so far.

I wouldn't worry about the attenuation % and just go for it!

 

[lumpher]

My fav yeast for tripple is trap high grav, fermented on the lower end of the temp scale. Cane sugar works just fine.

+1 to both of these. for huge belgians, or big 1's i want to dry out, i use trappist high gravity. my club had a big brew of a doppelbock, and 16 of us took shares. every1 else ended up 7.5-8.1. i used high grav, and i ended up 8.6 %

 

[starrfish]

I prefer the light belgian candy sugar over table sugar... basic brewing radio pod cast had a cast a while back stating the light imparted more belgiany flavor than some of the darker... I've used several "shades" and table sugar in different recipes... but have always found belgian candy to produce a smoother finish than table sugar... granted I used different yeasts and amounts of special B malt... but table sugar recipe tended for me to have more of a dry sour twang... It may have been other factors, but when I do a belgian pale or saison I use the candy sugar... I have a partial mash triple coming up on the brew list. for something this big, if I can use table sugar let me know!!!

 

[r_flagg]

The difference between using candi sugar and regular sucrose (table sugar) is that candi sugar has been inverted creating glucose and fructose which yeast eat through much better than sucrose. If you're going to save money by using table sugar, you should spend a little extra time to invert it. Here is a recipe:
http://northernbrewer.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-make-invert-sugar.html

 

[starrfish]

The difference between using candi sugar and regular sucrose (table sugar) is that candi sugar has been inverted creating glucose and fructose which yeast eat through much better than sucrose. If you're going to save money by using table sugar, you should spend a little extra time to invert it. Here is a recipe:
http://northernbrewer.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-make-invert-sugar.html

NICE TIP!!!! Great Instruction!

 

[jmo88]

I prefer the light belgian candy sugar over table sugar... basic brewing radio pod cast had a cast a while back stating the light imparted more belgiany flavor than some of the darker... I've used several "shades" and table sugar in different recipes... but have always found belgian candy to produce a smoother finish than table sugar... granted I used different yeasts and amounts of special B malt... but table sugar recipe tended for me to have more of a dry sour twang... It may have been other factors, but when I do a belgian pale or saison I use the candy sugar... I have a partial mash triple coming up on the brew list. for something this big, if I can use table sugar let me know!!!

Simple sugar is simple sugar. If you noticed a difference with different recipes then it is probably because it was a different recipe.

As far as the basic brewing podcast, what is a 'Belgiany flavor' in regards to fermentables? There are a lot of factors at play when it comes to producing Belgian characteristics and I wouldn't necessarily attribute them to the type of candi sugar. 'Belgian flavor' primarily comes from the fermentation. If you think you can notice the difference between clear Belgian candi sugar from table sugar in a recipe then I'd be willing to bet you are actually confusing it with a difference in fermentation. The dominant flavor component of Belgian beers is caused by the yeasts.

 

[starrfish]

Basic brewing did a candy light, candy dark vs table sugar. I thought the results were interesting... (they try to do a scientific same yeast and same conditions experiment)

I need to look back through my archives and point you to that pod cast.... hopefully it was before my CRASH...

I try to ferment my belgians esp saisons hot. If I brew one in winter it sits on a heat vent. my best saison was in a very hot room using the wyeast french saison 3711.

Table sugar version was A bit harsher compared to first, brewed 2 so far and a light saison following same basic recipe just scaled back but still using belgian candy.

 

[Mustangj]

Use WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast and make a big starter. Aerate pitch 2/3 of your starter after you've cooled you wort. Once it starts going good, aerate and pitch the rest.

I did this on my last belgium triple.
9/15 og 1.101
9/21 fg 1.012
ABV 11.68%

 

[Houblon]

The BJCP style guidlines call for an OG range of 1.075-1.085 with a TG of 1.008-1.014. Im a new brewer and certainly not experienced enough to see things from every angle, but explain how Belgian yeast strains with an attenutation range of 74-78% can achieve that goal?

Everybody who has done this recipe gets the same numbers>>

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/houblon-chouffe-aka-hopchewy-150742/index3.html#post2459221
SG 1.078
FG 1.006
IBU: 58
9.54% ABV

Attenuation
91.84% ADF - 76.05%RDF

Follow as posted and it works each & everytime since 2007.