Which national brand of spring water has the best mineral profile for making mead?

[NeverDie]

I had been using Ozark spring water, since Bray has been using it, but then another forum member provided a link to a technical analysis of the water composition, and it was strikingly deficient in a number of desirable minerals, such as calcium.

Are they're any national brands that stand out as having a good mineral profile for making mead?

 

[Maylar]

Never paid any attention to the water. Poland Spring is my choice, it's all I've ever used. I rely on my nutrients for whatever minerals the yeast needs.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Are they're any national brands that stand out as having a good mineral profile for making mead?

I guess I'm missing the point. You can always use distilled or RO water and build absolutely any profile you desire (with electrostatic balance).

Once you know what mineral levels you want, building a water profile is neither expensive nor difficult.

 

[NeverDie]

I guess I'm missing the point. You can always use distilled or RO water and build absolutely any profile you desire (with electrostatic balance).

Once you know what mineral levels you want, building a water profile is neither expensive nor difficult.

You may be right, but it doesn't seem to be a common practice. I'm not sure that I've seen even one, let alone two or more recipes which do it that way.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Water adjustment is really common do to in beer brewing because we've learned the importance of proper pH during mashing/boil (acid-base), proper minerals for yeast health (calcium, potassium, magnesium, etc), and appropriate mineral levels for flavor (sulfate, chloride, sodium, magnesium, etc).
I build a different water profile for every beer, based on the beer style and pH requirements for the particular grain -- in accordance with best practice.

You may be right, but it doesn't seem to be a common practice. I'm not sure that I've seen even one, let alone two or more recipes which do it that way.

Common practice doesn't equate to best practice. It's interesting that winemakers (mazers in particular) are lagging so far behind what's generally considered best practice in the brewing world. Water minerals definitely play a large role in flavor both directly and by affecting yeast health to reduce off-flavors from fermentation. So in my opinion it's not great to ignore that aspect -- especially in mead, where it's mostly added water.
This is why Bray uses a particular brand of water and adds a buffer. I don't know whether it's "optimal" but it clearly works for the yeast he uses.

There's such little information about adjusting water in mead I'd think I'd have to do a bunch of research before even beginning to try to design a generic optimized water profile. What minerals does honey contribute? How much does it vary? What are minimum levels of minerals for yeast health? What pH target and amount of buffering works best for the must? Should it be adjusted during fermentation?

 

[NeverDie]

Water adjustment is really common do to in beer brewing because we've learned the importance of proper pH during mashing/boil (acid-base), proper minerals for yeast health (calcium, potassium, magnesium, etc), and appropriate mineral levels for flavor (sulfate, chloride, sodium, magnesium, etc).
I build a different water profile for every beer, based on the beer style and pH requirements for the particular grain -- in accordance with best practice.


Common practice doesn't equate to best practice. It's interesting that winemakers (mazers in particular) are lagging so far behind what's generally considered best practice in the brewing world. Water minerals definitely play a large role in flavor both directly and by affecting yeast health to reduce off-flavors from fermentation. So in my opinion it's not great to ignore that aspect -- especially in mead, where it's mostly added water.
This is why Bray uses a particular brand of water and adds a buffer. I don't know whether it's "optimal" but it clearly works for the yeast he uses.

There's such little information about adjusting water in mead I'd think I'd have to do a bunch of research before even beginning to try to design a generic optimized water profile. What minerals does honey contribute? How much does it vary? What are minimum levels of minerals for yeast health? What pH target and amount of buffering works best for the must? Should it be adjusted during fermentation?

I'm using the same Ozark brand of water as Bray, but it turns out even that may not sufficient, because the water I get may be coming from different springs than the water he gets. Until you or somebody sorts out the mead water chemistry questions, it would be better if there were some national brand than relied upon a single spring in just one location, so that anyone buying that brand would be sure to get the same water. Assuming the water is good for making mead, that is.

Or, to turn it around, if there were such a brand that was known to be good for making mead, then looking at its water chemistry would probably answer your questions, or at least give a good start toward answering them.

Maybe it's worth taking a look into Poland Spring, since Maylar says he's getting good results with it? But for that to work we'd need to know exactly what his nutrient additions are also contributing.

Gosh, here we are in the 21st century, and still so many simple unanswered questions about how best to make the oldest fermented drink in human history!

 

[bernardsmith]

Something in the press about Poland Spring allegedly labeling and then selling non spring water as spring water...Who'd a thunk it? Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance...

 

[loveofrose]

I have a water chemistry experiment that is next in the pipeline here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Mead-water-chemistry/

It will likely change substantially with proper research. I am currently studying different beer mineral profiles and matching styles to attempt a correlative evaluation (think dry sparkling traditional vs Bochet profile being somewhat equivalent to a Pilsner vs Belgian Quadruple).

I don’t believe it is reinventing the wheel; it’s just determining which profile enhances which type of mead.

 

[bmd2k1]

I give my HBT mead brethren Alot of credit -- the process seems exhausting -- especially when compared 2 cider. Cheers 2 you all [emoji111]

 

[Blacksmith1]

If you can get Zephyrhills water where you are it is from one aquifer here in florida which has a really high calcium carbonate content. And it tastes great.
I bought 2 gallons of Great Value spring water at Walmart. It was neither great nor a value as I found it almost undrinkable. I bought it for making some brew (hadn't decided yet) and popped one open to have a glass. yuck. I'd drink it before dying but otherwise....
so yeah all water is not created equal and I suggest finding one you like the taste of, anything it needs can be added.

 

[bmd2k1]

I used Crystal Geyser 4 hard lemonade last year & it was great. Will be using that again. I realize hl doesn't lend itself to the subtle flavors that some meads have....just tossing it out [emoji111]

 

[Gravitysucks]

Something in the press about Poland Spring allegedly labeling and then selling non spring water as spring water...Who'd a thunk it? Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance...

The actual Poland spring dried up years ago so the water now comes from wells in Poland, ME and various other places around the state. The State of Maine and a couple of other states are currently suing Nestle, which bought Poland Spring, to force them to stop calling the water "spring water" since it doesn't come from a spring and a large part of it doesn't even come from Poland. As such any water profile you see for Poland Spring Water is likely an average of all it's sources and probably a crap-shoot as to it's accuracy.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I am currently studying different beer mineral profiles and matching styles to attempt a correlative evaluation (think dry sparkling traditional vs Bochet profile being somewhat equivalent to a Pilsner vs Belgian Quadruple).

I like where this is headed.

Keep in mind:
Malt adds a LOT of minerals (particularly potassium, magnesium, chloride, and maybe some others) and the brewing process removes calcium and affects other ions... So beer water profiles definitely don't apply directly to mead.

 

[loveofrose]

I like where this is headed.

Keep in mind:
Malt adds a LOT of minerals (particularly potassium, magnesium, chloride, and maybe some others) and the brewing process removes calcium and affects other ions... So beer water profiles definitely don't apply directly to mead.

This is a good point. I’ll try to find the typical mineral content of a boiled wart, then add the appropriate water profile to that.

 

[NeverDie]

This link has a fairly large database of waters that can be compared on their mineral content: http://www.mineral-calculator.com/all-waters.html

 

[NeverDie]

This link has a fairly large database of waters that can be compared on their mineral content: http://www.mineral-calculator.com/all-waters.html

Looks as though Evian water has a good amount of calcium (80mg per liter), compared to the other ones I compared it to.

It's interesting how little mineral content there is in a lot of the brands.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Evian, the original bottled water. Naïve spelled backwards

 

[NeverDie]

Wyeast has a mineral/nutrient complex that they recommend for mead: https://wyeastlab.com/wyeast-nutrient-wine-he
For their sweet mead yeast: "Use of Wyeast Wine Nutrient Blend is recommended."
Unfortunately, they don't break out exactly all or how much is in it.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Harley davidson recomended against the use of synthetic oil... Till they started selling their own brand. Now it's "Only use Syn 3…" their brand. independent testing shows there are at least 3 superior brands.

 

[NeverDie]

Harley davidson recomended against the use of synthetic oil... Till they started selling their own brand. Now it's "Only use Syn 3…" their brand. independent testing shows there are at least 3 superior brands.

You're right. But what else do we have to go on at the moment?

 

[Blacksmith1]

It seems to me any yeast nutes will work. Which works best? Not a clue and there are too many variables for anyone to give a definitive answer.

 

[NeverDie]

Well, no wonder he steams his corks rather than soaking them.

[Edit: oops. Posted this to the wrong thread. Sorry. ]

 

[RPh_Guy]

It seems to me any yeast nutes will work. Which works best? Not a clue and there are too many variables for anyone to give a definitive answer.

TOSNA is the current standard for dry yeast. (Go-Ferm with staggered Fermaid O)

Bray's "DLNA" is definitely what I'd use for liquid yeast because it has proven results.

 

[bob1852]

TOSNA is the current standard for dry yeast. (Go-Ferm with staggered Fermaid O)

Yup.

 

[NeverDie]

There seems to be a case for ensuring adequate calcium:
https://experimeads.com/2017/10/24/g-ferm-yan-and-mineral-protocols/

He attributes better flocculation to the higher calcium levels in the water that he tested.

 

[RPh_Guy]

There seems to be a case for ensuring adequate calcium:
https://experimeads.com/2017/10/24/g-ferm-yan-and-mineral-protocols/

He attributes better flocculation to the higher calcium levels in the water that he tested.

This is well known in the brewing world. Target roughly 50-150ppm calcium.

 

[Lefou]

This is well known in the brewing world. Target roughly 50-150ppm calcium.

I agree with this.
If you're using chlorine free, soft RO water for mead, it would make sense to add calcium salts at the same approximate levels as you'd add to beer wort to keep your yeast healthy and avoid off flavors. Boiled beer wort will have more free amino nitrogen present from the proteins in grain whereas the same can't be said for a honey water must.

 

[NeverDie]

I agree with this.
If you're using chlorine free, soft RO water for mead, it would make sense to add calcium salts at the same approximate levels as you'd add to beer wort to keep your yeast healthy and avoid off flavors. Boiled beer wort will have more free amino nitrogen present from the proteins in grain whereas the same can't be said for a honey water must.

Do you recommend anything else should be added too?

 

[Lefou]

Do you recommend anything else should be added too?

Not really.
Soft, chlorine-free water with the desired calcium salt levels and nutrient additions for yeast health should be all you'd really need.
More than that might be over complicating things.

 

[NeverDie]

Reporting back: I have rescued a couple of fermentations now (both happened to be variations on Joe's Quick Grape Pyment by substituting different juices) that had started to go sulfurous just by adding calcium. Wish I had known about this at the very start of my mead making!

Conclusion: I'm going to add both potassium and calcium to all future mead experiments. There doesn't seem to be a downside to adding them, but at least sometimes a very clear downside from not adding them.