Eliminating variables - water/ mineral content and brewfather

[BigFatDad]

I recently started re-calibrating all my equipment because I figured out I have some error there. I also have been very far off from expected og. My thought is to tackle one variable at a time. Equipment has all been calibrated correctly now, so that one is fixed, but still missing gravity by like 15 points.
Next on the list is water profile. Last will be grain crush. (last because the home brew store has a mill and I do not).
I used brewtoad in the past but that doesn't exist anymore. So now I usually write up my recipes in a notebook and then use brun' water to make sure my minerals are Correct. Then check with brewers friend for the gravity numbers. I tried brewfather today, see the link. I have not added that much Gypsum to a mash ever so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with the math or if I really should be adding this many minerals and that might explain my poor efficiency.
I always use RO water because we have incredibly hard water where I live. It is from the store Dispenser so I am assuming that it is truly RO water.
Like I said, I'm trying to go variable by variable so I can track down this efficiency issue. The end beers are still OK, but tend to be a bit bland. On the flip side, my Oktoberfest is one of my family's favorites despite the low efficiency. This recipe is for a rye ipa.

I am looking at using more software and less paper and pen as well as improving the overall efficiency and flavor of the final beer. Also, no mosaic hops. They are gross.

Thoughts?

https://share.brewfather.app/OboJzGK9OEGXu8

 

[marc1]

I recently started re-calibrating all my equipment because I figured out I have some error there. I also have been very far off from expected og. My thought is to tackle one variable at a time. Equipment has all been calibrated correctly now, so that one is fixed, but still missing gravity by like 15 points.
Next on the list is water profile. Last will be grain crush. (last because the home brew store has a mill and I do not).
I used brewtoad in the past but that doesn't exist anymore. So now I usually write up my recipes in a notebook and then use brun' water to make sure my minerals are Correct. Then check with brewers friend for the gravity numbers. I tried brewfather today, see the link. I have not added that much Gypsum to a mash ever so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with the math or if I really should be adding this many minerals and that might explain my poor efficiency.
I always use RO water because we have incredibly hard water where I live. It is from the store Dispenser so I am assuming that it is truly RO water.
Like I said, I'm trying to go variable by variable so I can track down this efficiency issue. The end beers are still OK, but tend to be a bit bland. On the flip side, my Oktoberfest is one of my family's favorites despite the low efficiency. This recipe is for a rye ipa.

I am looking at using more software and less paper and pen as well as improving the overall efficiency and flavor of the final beer. Also, no mosaic hops. They are gross.

Thoughts?

https://share.brewfather.app/OboJzGK9OEGXu8

You can get a cheap TDS meter to check the RO water. I've had some bad RO water come out of those machines before.

Do your Brewfather mineral additions match up more or less with the Brun' water ones? That's a high sulfate amount, but not unheard of for IPAs.

Crush is certainly something to look at for efficiency issues. How are you mashing?

Finally, I agree about Mosaic. Not a fan. They blend OK, but prominent Mosaic beers aren't my thing.

 

[doug293cz]

What is your sparge process? Please provide as much detail as possible.

Your apparent grain absorption rate is (7.63 gal - 6.5 gal) / 12.125 lb = 0.093 gal/lb. This is much lower than typical for a traditional mash tun (0.12 - 0.125 gal/lb.) Have you actually measured this?

What was your predicted mash pH? Bru'n Water gives me 5.03 with 88% lactic acid (5.11 with 80% lactic acid) using your grain bill, RO water, and your mineral additions.

Is your lactic acid really 80%? The most common strength available is 88%.

Brew on

 

[BigFatDad]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I have not brewed an ipa with that high of sulfate ever. The other numbers are about in line with brun water. I typically shoot for mash pH at 5.2 or 5.3 pending style. Ipa usually 5.2 accomplished with 88% lactic acid (sorry, my error there, new program and all) and then the other minerals for yeast health, flavor, etc.
I just used the stock values in the brew father app for absorption. I do not know what I normally get.
My typical batch is 4 gallons strike with minerals as per brun water. I drain that after 60 min (pump recirculating very slow last few min) to boil kettle. I prep 4 gallons room temp sparge using again brun water and will use as much as needed to get up to 6.5 preboil volume.

 

[marc1]

How did you arrive at that high sulfate level? A recipe called for it?

 

[BigFatDad]

The brew father app said to use that level for an ipa.

 

[Wables]

Room temp sparge water isn’t helping you. Are you batch or fly sparging? Describe your whole mash and lautering process with as much detail as you can. Even with my terrible tap water I can get 80-82%. What is your efficiency target?

 

[doug293cz]

Room temp sparge water isn’t helping you. Are you batch or fly sparging? Describe your whole mash and lautering process with as much detail as you can. Even with my terrible tap water I can get 80-82%. What is your efficiency target?

Room temp sparge water also isn't hurting you. The only drawback to using cool water for sparging is that it takes longer to heat your wort to a boil.

I suspect your low efficiency is due to too coarse a crush, which will give you low conversion efficiency, unless you mash for an extended time. It's also possible that your sparge process could be contributing to low lauter efficiency, but we don't have any details on that with which to offer advice. Mash efficiency equals conversion efficiency times lauter efficiency, so either one being low will affect mash efficiency. If both are low, that's a double whammy. If pH gets really low (somewhere below 5) that can also start to inhibit conversion efficiency.

Brew on

 

[BigFatDad]

My efficiency target is 75% and I have been as low as 55%. I sometimes compensate with dme. I have tried mashing as long as 90 min recently and that helped quite a bit of gravity points, but dried out the beers too. (fine for oktoberfest and helles and such, not great for stouts and amber ales) That's why I was thinking my mash pH was off. But it seems to keep coming back to the grain crush (which is my last variable).
Mash: see above
Typical lauter is about 4 gallons (or whatever amount would be needed to get to 6.5 pre boil) and that is a batch sparge for 10 min with slow pump recirculation entire time. After sparge water is added, I stir it all up fairly aggressively but not splashing. I cannot heat the sparge water in my current set up without adding another pot for the first runnings to go into.

I am surprised at how challenging is it to write out in detail the process as I have done it a few hundred times. Maybe that's also part of the problem.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, it doesn't sound like your sparge process is part of the problem (you seem to be doing everything right), unless you have a significant undrainable volume in your mash tun and recirc plumbing. Any idea how much wort is trapped in the bottom of your MLT plus recirc plumbing after 1st run-off?

I did a quick analysis assuming 4 gal strike, 0.12 gal grain absorption, 0 undrainable volume, and enough sparge water to get you to 6.5 gal pre-boil. The lauter efficiency comes out at 83% - 84%. Assuming 1/2 gal MLT undrainable volume drops the lauter efficiency to 78% - 79%.

You can measure your conversion efficiency using the method here. I'm going to throw together a little spreadsheet to do conversion efficiency calculation according to this link, and post it here later.

Brew on

 

[BigFatDad]

So I was finally able to brew again. I ended up using the math from Brewfather just to try it out. The beer tastes okay, I think it needed a bit more dry hopping. But anyway, the gravity was still substantially low. So I got annoyed and brought a grain mill. Then I milled up a new batch of a stout, and it worked out perfectly. I actually overshot my numbers by 0.01. That's the first time in a few years that has happened. Thank you all for the excellent help, I appreciate it a lot!