When to transfer to secondary.

[HalfWit]

OK I got around 13 1/2 to 14gal of juice from the 5 boxes of Honeycrisp on 4/19/15. pinched Safale s-04. OG 1.064. Today 5/6/15 it's at 1.018. Now what to do? When should I transfer them to the secondary for flavoring? I have some barrel cubes soaking in Wild Turkey for 1 batch, some fresh Cascade hops for another and going to do a fresh frozen raspberries for the 3rd batch. Should I transfer them now and take them down to 1.010 to 1.002 with my added flavors or take them down then transfer to the secondary for flavors? Cheers

 

[Maylar]

I normally wait until it's below 1.010 to rack to secondary.

 

[DaMonkey]

OK I got around 13 1/2 to 14gal of juice from the 5 boxes of Honeycrisp on 4/19/15. pinched Safale s-04. OG 1.064. Today 5/6/15 it's at 1.018. Now what to do? When should I transfer them to the secondary for flavoring? I have some barrel cubes soaking in Wild Turkey for 1 batch, some fresh Cascade hops for another and going to do a fresh frozen raspberries for the 3rd batch. Should I transfer them now and take them down to 1.010 to 1.002 with my added flavors or take them down then transfer to the secondary for flavors? Cheers

Its up to you, I would wait because I like to get the majority of sediment out of during primary. If you transfer mid-fermentation you will have a lot of sediment in your secondary. I know various people will say 1.010.

 

[HalfWit]

Thank you!! I'll try 1.010. I have done 1.000 but it didn't like it that much. I should have back sweeten that batch but I just gave it away with a warning I like your thoughts on the sediments. I have a kegerator to cold crash them one at a time then a filtering system so my ciders are coming out clear. I'm just wanting a nice balance. Little sweet, little tart, and dry.

 

[bernardsmith]

Cider ain't beer. All the sugars in apples are fermentable and any yeast worth its weight should have no trouble fermenting cider dry. if you prefer a sweeter cider then you need to consider backsweetening and not hoping that your yeast will take pity on you and quit while there is still food in the pot...

 

[brancaster]

Cider ain't beer. All the sugars in apples are fermentable and any yeast worth its weight should have no trouble fermenting cider dry. if you prefer a sweeter cider then you need to consider backsweetening and not hoping that your yeast will take pity on you and quit while there is still food in the pot...

Isn't it advisable to monitor FG near the end of your expected fermentation cycle and halt the fermentation process when it hits the desired level of "sweetness"?

 

[Maylar]

Isn't it advisable to monitor FG near the end of your expected fermentation cycle and halt the fermentation process when it hits the desired level of "sweetness"?

No. That's not an easy task. Cider will continue to ferment until the sugar is gone, or the yeast stops eating it. You can't halt fermentation without intervening with some extraordinary measures.

The way we normally proceed is to let the cider ferment until it's done. That can be either a single step (primary) or split into 2 stages (primary then secondary). When SG stops changing, it's done.

Then deal with whatever sweetening and/or carbonation techniques you desire.

The only way I know of to halt fermentation before it's done is to refrigerate it below the temperature that the yeast are active. If you can do that, then you can stop it at some intermediate point.

 

[brancaster]

No. That's not an easy task. Cider will continue to ferment until the sugar is gone, or the yeast stops eating it. You can't halt fermentation without intervening with some extraordinary measures.

The way we normally proceed is to let the cider ferment until it's done. That can be either a single step (primary) or split into 2 stages (primary then secondary). When SG stops changing, it's done.

Then deal with whatever sweetening and/or carbonation techniques you desire.

The only way I know of to halt fermentation before it's done is to refrigerate it below the temperature that the yeast are active. If you can do that, then you can stop it at some intermediate point.

Thanks for the info!

I intend to heat pasteurized my bottles and that should kill the yeast, halting fermentation in the process, right? Or am I missing something?

 

[Maylar]

Thanks for the info!

I intend to heat pasteurized my bottles and that should kill the yeast, halting fermentation in the process, right? Or am I missing something?

Yes, that works too. I've never done that because the bottles would never survive at the level of carbonation that I like.

 

[bernardsmith]

Never pasteurized either but lots of folk on this forum say they do that. I say, good luck to them. To me pasteurization as a technique for getting a cider or mead to the exact point of sweetness you want is more about luck than skill or technique. Me? I allow my ciders to ferment dry, stabilize and then add whatever amount of additional sweetness I want - precisely... If I want my cider to be 1.010 then I can add enough sweetener (whether apple juice or sugar or honey) to hit that mark. If I want the cider to be 1.005 I can add enough sugar to hit that mark and if I want the cider to be bottled at 1.0075 I can add precisely the amount of sugar to hit that target. Pasteurization - to me - is like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. But , hey - to each their own.

 

[brancaster]

Never pasteurized either but lots of folk on this forum say they do that. I say, good luck to them. To me pasteurization as a technique for getting a cider or mead to the exact point of sweetness you want is more about luck than skill or technique. Me? I allow my ciders to ferment dry, stabilize and then add whatever amount of additional sweetness I want - precisely... If I want my cider to be 1.010 then I can add enough sweetener (whether apple juice or sugar or honey) to hit that mark. If I want the cider to be 1.005 I can add enough sugar to hit that mark and if I want the cider to be bottled at 1.0075 I can add precisely the amount of sugar to hit that target. Pasteurization - to me - is like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. But , hey - to each their own.

I don't agree that pasteurization is more about luck than skill or technique. While I do agree that it isn't the most controllable method and there will be variance because of that, I think it can be controlled to an extent.

I'm not using pasteurization as a sweetening technique, but a technique to stop the fermentation process after I reach a desired level of carbonation.

This involves backsweetening to my desired sweetness level, then adding additional priming sugar (calculated for the amount of liquid I have in respect to how carbonated I want it) for the yeast to eat and produce CO2 with. If calculated correctly, the yeast will produce the CO2 using the priming sugar alone, leaving the sugar in my backsweetener alone.

 

[Yooper]

This involves backsweetening to my desired sweetness level, then adding additional priming sugar (calculated for the amount of liquid I have in respect to how carbonated I want it) for the yeast to eat and produce CO2 with. If calculated correctly, the yeast will produce the CO2 using the priming sugar alone, leaving the sugar in my backsweetener alone.

Well, how are you going to "tell" the yeast which sugar is ok for them to ferment and which to "leave alone"?

It sounds like a recipe for bottle bombs.

 

[brancaster]

Well, how are you going to "tell" the yeast which sugar is ok for them to ferment and which to "leave alone"?

It sounds like a recipe for bottle bombs.

I won't be telling it which to ferment per say, but adding enough to allow for desired carbonation levels while still being at desired sweetness levels once I stop fermentation.

It would be a recipe for bottle bombs if I didn't plan to heat pasteurize after carefully monitoring the carbonation process.

 

[BrotherBock]

.

The only way I know of to halt fermentation before it's done is to refrigerate it below the temperature that the yeast are active. If you can do that, then you can stop it at some intermediate point.

You can use sulfates to stop fermentation. The only caveat is that then you can't carbonate in the bottle.

 

[Maylar]

I won't be telling it which to ferment per say, but adding enough to allow for desired carbonation levels while still being at desired sweetness levels once I stop fermentation.

It would be a recipe for bottle bombs if I didn't plan to heat pasteurize after carefully monitoring the carbonation process.

Be aware that it takes time for the yeast to consume your priming sugar. In tests that I have done I've found that the amount of sugar left after pasteurizing was more than what I expected. It seems the yeasts don't consume all of the priming sugar when you halt the process suddenly. All that this means is that your pasteurized cider will likely be sweeter than you expected.

 

[brancaster]

Be aware that it takes time for the yeast to consume your priming sugar. In tests that I have done I've found that the amount of sugar left after pasteurizing was more than what I expected. It seems the yeasts don't consume all of the priming sugar when you halt the process suddenly. All that this means is that your pasteurized cider will likely be sweeter than you expected.

Thanks for the tip!

I'll be doing a few different batches to test on. Adding varying amounts of backsweetener to each. We'll see how it goes in a week or two!

 

[Yooper]

You can use sulfates to stop fermentation. The only caveat is that then you can't carbonate in the bottle.

You probably meant sulfite, and not sulfate. But sulfite does not stop fermentation. Sorbate, in conjunction with sulfites, can inhibit re-fermentation once fermentation has ended but neither will stop an active fermentation.