When to switch to secondary?

[LivHoppy]

I brewed a pale ale last week and I put it in my basement to ferment. I noticed the temp was around 56, so I brought it upstairs where it is around 64. It stayed downstairs for about 5 days and todayis these one day upstairs. I just was wondering if it would be ok to switch to secondary today, or if there is a way to check to make sure.

Thanks!!!

 

[botigol]

What benefit do you hope to gain from racking it into a secondary vessel?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Never.

Primary only for a few weeks and bottle. If kegging, 2 weeks in primary then keg.

 

[skunkfunk]

56 ambient is about right for most ale yeast, that'll put you low-mid 60s beer temp in the most vigorous part of fermentation. Taking it upstairs after 5 days is also correct, very appropriate move.

Don't secondary it, the beer will last much better in the bottle with less oxygen exposure. In fact, given your good temperatures for fermentation, if gravity readings confirm it is done I'll bet it is ready to bottle.

 

[Pyg]

So the consensus is no secondary? Just 2 weeks in the primary bucket and then bottle?

I use a vacuum pump when racking, so there is little exposure to oxygen when racking.
My issue is that I only have 1 primary bucket, which I use to bottle out of since my bottling bucket is old and beat up.
I may have to go from primary bucket to bottling bucket

So following your advice, rack off the sludge in primary right to bottling after 2 weeks?

 

[eadavis80]

I rack - I guess I'm in the minority (in this post at least). When to do it? When gravity is stable over a 3-day window. Many people discuss oxidation, fear of infection, but I've never had an issue with that. If you really don't want to rack, get another primary bucket or fermenter to get another batch going!

 

[Psylocide]

So the consensus is no secondary? Just 2 weeks in the primary bucket and then bottle?

I use a vacuum pump when racking, so there is little exposure to oxygen when racking.
My issue is that I only have 1 primary bucket, which I use to bottle out of since my bottling bucket is old and beat up.
I may have to go from primary bucket to bottling bucket

So following your advice, rack off the sludge in primary right to bottling after 2 weeks?

I'm going with: Bottle when FG is stable and it tastes right after X amount of weeks in primary.

My APA was ready to bottle in two weeks, FG was stable, tasted great, bottled. 2 weeks total in primary, which included being dry hopped for 4 days, cold crashed for 3 days. I hit FG in 5 days with SA-04.

My Irish stout had an off flavor around week 2 of primary, but FG was stable. Waited 2 weeks, off-flavor was gone, tastes right, bottled. 4 weeks in primary on that one.

I would venture a guess that I'll never secondary.

 

[Pyg]

The more I think about it,
Why cant I rack to a carboy for secondary then when the time is right add priming sugar to the carboy and bottle right out of the carboy?

 

[skunkfunk]

The more I think about it,
Why cant I rack to a carboy for secondary then when the time is right add priming sugar to the carboy and bottle right out of the carboy?

Are you going to stir it up to get the sugar mixed? There will be a new layer of trub in the carboy after it sits a few days.

 

[Psylocide]

The more I think about it,
Why cant I rack to a carboy for secondary then when the time is right add priming sugar to the carboy and bottle right out of the carboy?

You could... but it wouldn't be mixed very well.

Why do you want to go to secondary so badly? Are you adding flavoring agents (vanilla beans, oak chips, etc.)?

From all I've seen here (and other places), going to secondary is just not needed for a beer that you're not going to age or add flavoring agents to.

Seriously, my APA was completely clear after cold crashing for 3 days... 2 weeks total in primary with SA-04. From what I've seen, racking to secondary is somewhat of an "old wives tale" as a necessity... in practice, I would say it's not needed for most beers.

 

[Pyg]

You could... but it wouldn't be mixed very well.

Why do you want to go to secondary so badly? Are you adding flavoring agents (vanilla beans, oak chips, etc.)?

From all I've seen here (and other places), going to secondary is just not needed for a beer that you're not going to age or add flavoring agents to.

Seriously, my APA was completely clear after cold crashing for 3 days... 2 weeks total in primary with SA-04. From what I've seen, racking to secondary is somewhat of an "old wives tale" as a necessity... in practice, I would say it's not needed for most beers.

I would stir the mixture in the carboy with a spook to mix.

I dont want to go to secondary,
I am trying to reconcile the fact that I dont have a bottling bucket, but do have a vacuum pump which makes bottling super easy.
I figure without going to secondary I will need to rack off the sediment into a bottling vessel anyway

 

[Psylocide]

I would stir the mixture in the carboy with a spook to mix.

I dont want to go to secondary,
I am trying to reconcile the fact that I dont have a bottling bucket, but do have a vacuum pump which makes bottling super easy.
I figure without going to secondary I will need to rack off the sediment into a bottling vessel anyway

Oh, yes... for sure.

Just put your priming sugar (boiled in water, of course) in first and rack onto it like you would in a bottling bucket, then bottle out of your second carboy. In essence, that's your bottling bucket.

I misunderstood what you were getting at. Cheers!

 

[hartlesj]

I'm trying the secondary. I have a Blond ale I brewed that sat in primary for 2 weeks. Really, the only reason i'm going to secondary is to try and clear it up a bit more before I bottle. Oxidatoin might be an issue, but my blond seems to be rather cloudy and I wanted to give it a try. Ideally, I would have wanted to rack it to secondary sooner, but work/life had other plans. I went back and forth a bit. I racked it from my glass carboy into my bottling bucket, cleaned and sanitized my carboy, then went back to my carboy. I know that oxidation is an issue with that, but i'm working on learning other processes. I have a big mouth bubbler in mind for my next purchase that will reduce the amount of shuffling I do. I plan on leaving it in secondary for a week, then I'll send it into my bottling bucket with the pre-boiled sugar water already in the bucket. Then bottle. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[skunkfunk]

I'm trying the secondary. I have a Blond ale I brewed that sat in primary for 2 weeks. Really, the only reason i'm going to secondary is to try and clear it up a bit more before I bottle. Oxidatoin might be an issue, but my blond seems to be rather cloudy and I wanted to give it a try. Ideally, I would have wanted to rack it to secondary sooner, but work/life had other plans. I went back and forth a bit. I racked it from my glass carboy into my bottling bucket, cleaned and sanitized my carboy, then went back to my carboy. I know that oxidation is an issue with that, but i'm working on learning other processes. I have a big mouth bubbler in mind for my next purchase that will reduce the amount of shuffling I do. I plan on leaving it in secondary for a week, then I'll send it into my bottling bucket with the pre-boiled sugar water already in the bucket. Then bottle. We'll see how it turns out.

Ten dollars says it turns out exactly the same as if you had done nothing and just left it in primary.

I have wondered if the whole secondary thing is just a holdover from the pros. They have legit reasons to move beer out of primary ASAP.

 

[hartlesj]

What are those reasons? I thought they just dropped the Trub out the bottom of the conical. Essentially doing the same thing as a secondary. I hear ya about the taste, but what about the clarity?

 

[lhommedieu]

I rack into a secondary and then again into a corny keg. From there I'll prime in a second keg. Main reason is for clarity. I don't have any issues with oxidation as my racking system is closed CO2. If you purge your carboy and work slowly from the bottom you won't have a problem. In your case I'd prime in the bottle after trub settles.

 

[Gavin C]

I rack into a secondary and then again into a corny keg. From there I'll prime in a second keg. Main reason is for clarity. I don't have any issues with oxidation as my racking system is closed CO2. If you purge your carboy and work slowly from the bottom you won't have a problem. In your case I'd prime in the bottle after trub settles.

4 vessels for 1 beer. Interesting approach.

I am a proponent of less is more when it comes to manipulating the wort/beer.

Cold-crashed Primary to Keg w/ gelatin finings = beautifully clear beer for me

I just hate the extra cleanup and do not have a closed system allowing Under C02 transfer.

I see no downside to omitting a secondary/tertiary vessel for beers that are not enormously big. I suppose for bigger beers/oaking/fruit additions etc I could see the theoretical merits.

Edit:
Edwort's Haus Ale and Lil Sparky's Brown ale

 

[lhommedieu]

Those are some beautiful beers. Yes, four containers is indeed an extensive approach, but a closed CO2 transfer mitigates the potential hazards, and the process includes not just fermentation, but a 5 month (minimum) lagering/conditioning period. It's worth noting that I'm not using fining agents - although I may filter in the future.

The primary/secondary debate is largely settled when you consider that those who have found a process that works for them, have found a process that suits the beer style that they like. I love ales, and I agree that my process is probably overkill for ales. One might simply rack off the primary and into a keg, and be perfectly happy with the result (as I have been). To each his or her own (said the old lady)...

 

[Gavin C]

Those are some beautiful beers. Yes, four containers is indeed an extensive approach, but a closed CO2 transfer mitigates the potential hazards, and the process includes not just fermentation, but a 5 month (minimum) lagering/conditioning period. It's worth noting that I'm not using fining agents - although I may filter in the future.

The primary/secondary debate is largely settled when you consider that those who have found a process that works for them, have found a process that suits the beer style that they like. I love ales, and I agree that my process is probably overkill for ales. One might simply rack off the primary and into a keg, and be perfectly happy with the result (as I have been). To each his or her own (said the old lady)...

With your system, I don't see how there could be any risk of oxygenation or contamination. If your ageing the beers for months dong it in a sealed CO2 filled stainless vessel must be the gold standard.

I'm a very inexperienced brewer and have not done any that require long ageing times, nor have I attempted a lager yet. On my to do list for sure

 

[lhommedieu]

lol - I am not an "experienced brewer"; I just happened to find a mentor who has been kind enough to tutor me in this particular process, which is perfect for pils and lagers. For every answer that I think that I know, I've asked 20 questions. I am in the middle of finding my way and expect a long learning curve over the next few years.

I've brewed ales for two years and have racked off the primary to a keg, as well as racking to a secondary before kegging. Both methods work. If you're using fining agents like Irish Moss in the kettle and gelatin in the carboy, a secondary is not strictly necessary. You will produce fine beers without it, as is evidenced the experience of brewers here on the forum and by the pictures that you posted above.