Wheat flour

[Miraculix]

I would most likely use Belle Saison, as that is my yeast of choice, and I would also add a little crystal malt (about 5%) for color.

Never tried it with belle, but should be good! I probably would use just a little bit of black malt or roasted barley instead of the crystal though.

 

[Ninoid]

Never tried it with belle, but should be good! I probably would use just a little bit of black malt or roasted barley instead of the crystal though.

Yes, perhaps roasted malt is a better choice that will minimally affect the flavor, which is already rich and thick. I have Carafa special type 3, so I would put it up to 50 grams.

 

[IslandLizard]

Never tried it with belle, but should be good!

Correction, replied to the wrong post(er).

I would most likely use Belle Saison, as that is my yeast of choice,

At what temps?

I noticed Belle being quite neutral (and slow) at low ferm temps.
I've always used WY3944 for Wits at 70-72F.

 

[Ninoid]

Correction, replied to the wrong post(er).

At what temps?

I noticed Belle being quite neutral (and slow) at low ferm temps.
I've always used WY3944 for Wits at 70-72F.

Since I have no control over the fermentation temperature, which is why I use that yeast most of the time, the fermentation temperature is around 25'C most of the year, but in the summer it can be up to 33'C, while in the winter it drops to 20'C.

 

[IslandLizard]

Since I have no control over the fermentation temperature, which is why I use that yeast most of the time, the fermentation temperature is around 25'C most of the year, but in the summer it can be up to 33'C, while in the winter it drops to 20'C.

Ah, I see why Belle is your yeast of choice, especially during the warmer season.

Just in case you want to use different yeasts and/or control ferm temps somewhat, here's an idea of a possible workaround I've been using.
When I don't have space in the ferm fridge, I've been using an (insulated) beverage cooler chest with cold water, doping it with a few frozen water bottles each day.

It fits two 6.5 gallon (~24 liter) brew buckets side by side. The whole setup is insulated (covered) with an old thick sleeping bag, and placed in the coolest place in the house (the lower level bathroom).

 

[Ninoid]

I did a small scale experiment to see how white wheat flour (for bread) behaves with a standard infusion mash and what performance I can expect.

I mashed 50% Munich malt (50 grams) and 50% white wheat flour (50 grams) in one liter of water for 50 minutes. I got OG=1.025 which is even
and more than expected and shows 1.037 potential of white wheat flour. I mixed malt and flour dry and pour it in water at 75'C. At the beginning balls of flour started to form, but they broke after 15 minutes, as Miraculix mentioned.

This experiment shows that white wheat flour can be used to make wheat beer with high efficiency in standard infusion mash without Cereal Mash before.

 

[z-bob]

Since it works for wheat flour, do y'all think cornstarch is ground fine enough to skip cooking and just mix it dry in with the grist? I want to try it in a cream ale. I was planning to boil it in a gallon or two of the strike water but mixing it with the grain would be easier.

 

[Miraculix]

Since it works for wheat flour, do y'all think cornstarch is ground fine enough to skip cooking and just mix it dry in with the grist? I want to try it in a cream ale. I was planning to boil it in a gallon or two of the strike water but mixing it with the grain would be easier.

I wouldn't even think about boiling it. Just throw it in the mash. Pre-mix it with the rest of the grist dry to avoid starch clumps.

 

[G_robertus]

Since it works for wheat flour, do y'all think cornstarch is ground fine enough to skip cooking and just mix it dry in with the grist? I want to try it in a cream ale. I was planning to boil it in a gallon or two of the strike water but mixing it with the grain would be easier.

The only thing about corn is that the gelatinisation temperatures vary a lot depending on where you look. Some sources say 60 °C is fine, others mention 80-90 °C. This chart shows a large range as well. You'd have to try a small batch to see if your particular brand will easily gelatinise. I guess since it's in powder form and you don't have to work through a shell it'll at least take less time and energy than whole or cracked kernels.

 

[z-bob]

The only thing about corn is that the gelatinisation temperatures vary a lot depending on where you look. Some sources say 60 °C is fine, others mention 80-90 °C. This chart shows a large range as well. You'd have to try a small batch to see if your particular brand will easily gelatinise. I guess since it's in powder form and you don't have to work through a shell it'll at least take less time and energy than whole or cracked kernels.

I'm wondering if it even has to gel because the particles are so small; perhaps all they have to do is be wet for the enzymes to attack them.

 

[Miraculix]

The only thing about corn is that the gelatinisation temperatures vary a lot depending on where you look. Some sources say 60 °C is fine, others mention 80-90 °C. This chart shows a large range as well. You'd have to try a small batch to see if your particular brand will easily gelatinise. I guess since it's in powder form and you don't have to work through a shell it'll at least take less time and energy than whole or cracked kernels.

He's talking about corn starch, not corn or corn flour. That starch has already been extracted from the rest and it's now a very fine powder. This basically means that it's as accessible to the enzymes as it gets.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm wondering if it even has to gel because the particles are so small; perhaps all they have to do is be wet for the enzymes to attack them.

That's why flour works so well without an additional boil!

 

[JAReeves]

Since no one else mentioned this yet, I am going to caution against using pasta unless you know whether it was made with eggs or not. The fats in the yolk are a great binder for the flour, but might damage head retention in your beer. YMMV.

 

[G_robertus]

He's talking about corn starch, not corn or corn flour. That starch has already been extracted from the rest and it's now a very fine powder. This basically means that it's as accessible to the enzymes as it gets.

Yes but I'm wondering wether the granule size of cornstarch is too small that even when they're not locked up in cells they might be hard to free. You generally need to apply quite a bit of heat to get it to work and prolonged high temperatures to denature cornstarch. My point is that I just wonder how accessible it the granules are to the enzymes before heat treatment. I guess I can add this to the list of many things I should try once.

 

[Ninoid]

Today I brewed a batch of 50% pilsner malt and 50% white wheat flour using my standard BIAB method.

A real adrenaline experience that turned into panic in moments. Although I mixed the flour and grain dry well, large balls formed in the mash, which I kept breaking up, so I extended the mash from the standard 60 to 80 minutes. By the end, the balls had mostly broken or shrunk significantly. However, when I started to lift the bag, there was panic. She took 2/3 of the liquid with her so that she was so heavy that I could hardly hold her, and the squeezing was very slow and difficult. After at least twice as much squeezing time as I usually take to squeeze a bag, I was able to squeeze out most of the liquid, but rather less as much as when I make all-malt beer. I think I will have at least 10% lower utilization than I planned (it won't be more than 65%). At the end of boil, a fatty layer of protein floated on the surface. Washing the bag and brewing pot was also quite a horror. Everything was fatly and much harder to wash. The whole process took about two hours longer than usual and I can say that it is really quite a different experience.

The beer would really have to be exceptionally good to do it again.

 

[Miraculix]

Today I brewed a batch of 50% pilsner malt and 50% white wheat flour using my standard BIAB method.

A real adrenaline experience that turned into panic in moments. Although I mixed the flour and grain dry well, large balls formed in the mash, which I kept breaking up, so I extended the mash from the standard 60 to 80 minutes. By the end, the balls had mostly broken or shrunk significantly. However, when I started to lift the bag, there was panic. She took 2/3 of the liquid with her so that she was so heavy that I could hardly hold her, and the squeezing was very slow and difficult. After at least twice as much squeezing time as I usually take to squeeze a bag, I was able to squeeze out most of the liquid, but rather less as much as when I make all-malt beer. I think I will have at least 10% lower utilization than I planned (it won't be more than 65%). At the end of boil, a fatty layer of protein floated on the surface. Washing the bag and brewing pot was also quite a horror. Everything was fatly and much harder to wash. The whole process took about two hours longer than usual and I can say that it is really quite a different experience.

The beer would really have to be exceptionally good to do it again.

Next time, try massaging, not squeezing. That seems to be the key to unclock all the little pores of the bag. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. It will take a bit longer than usual, but not THAT much longer.

 

[Ninoid]

Next time, try massaging, not squeezing. That seems to be the key to unclock all the little pores of the bag. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. It will take a bit longer than usual, but not THAT much longer.

You already mentioned it, but I don't know how to do it?
Now I just lift the bag and squeeze it, leave it in a plastic bucket, after ten minutes I pour out the liquid that collects in the bucket and squeeze the bag again and so on several times.

 

[Miraculix]

Well... just massging it I guess.

 

[Ninoid]

Well... just massging it I guess.

You probably mean that I put the bag in the bucket and gently massage it to release as much wort as possible.

 

[day_trippr]

This is getting close to "X Rated Brewing"

 

[Miraculix]

You probably mean that I put the bag in the bucket and gently massage it to release as much wort as possible.

No, you hold it above the bucket in which you are collecting the wort and move the inside of the bag around with your hands from the outside. In between a squeeze here and there and then massaging again.

Be gentle with it, you got the whole night together, no need to rush.

Put on some Marvin Gaye for this.

 

[Ninoid]

No, you hold it above the bucket in which you are collecting the wort and move the inside of the bag around with your hands from the outside. In between a squeeze here and there and then massaging again.

Be gentle with it, you got the whole night together, no need to rush.

Put on some Marvin Gaye for this.

I don't have the ability to do it that way. Nevermind, I tried. Now let's see what kind of beer will turn out in a month.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't have the ability to do it that way. Nevermind, I tried. Now let's see what kind of beer will turn out in a month.

A very smooth one!

 

[Stikius]

I don't have the ability to do it that way. Nevermind, I tried. Now let's see what kind of beer will turn out in a month.

Before I went AiO I used to keep an oven rack and a bucket with lots of holes drilled in the bottom close by. Just put the grainbag in the bucket and the bucket on the rack, and place it on top of the kettle. Then you can let it drain itself for as long as you want to, or give it a little help with massage and/or squeezing.

 

[Miraculix]

Before I went AiO I used to keep an oven rack and a bucket with lots of holes drilled in the bottom close by. Just put the grainbag in the bucket and the bucket on the rack, and place it on top of the kettle. Then you can let it drain itself for as long as you want to, or give it a little help with massage and/or squeezing.

A massage chair, I like that idea!

 

[Ninoid]

Before I went AiO I used to keep an oven rack and a bucket with lots of holes drilled in the bottom close by. Just put the grainbag in the bucket and the bucket on the rack, and place it on top of the kettle. Then you can let it drain itself for as long as you want to, or give it a little help with massage and/or squeezing.

I also had such an idea a few years ago, but I didn't need it until now, so I didn't even try to realize it.

 

[Ninoid]

I'm thinking about how stressed the yeast will be from this beer and is it worth the risk and harvest it for the next batch, as I usually do?

 

[Stikius]

I wouldn't worry. Try it, and see what happens. Otherwise you won't know what to do next time.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm thinking about how stressed the yeast will be from this beer and is it worth the risk and harvest it for the next batch, as I usually do?

Why would the yeast be stressed from this beer?

 

[Ninoid]

Why would the yeast be stressed from this beer?

I do not know. I am thinking. Because of a lot of protein in it. It's different than what I've done so far, so I'm wondering a lot.