what's the deal with church folks???

[akamatt]

Psalms 104:14,15 "You cause the grass to grow for the cattle, and plants for people to use, to bring forth food from the earth, and wine to gladden the human heart, oil to make the face shine,..."

John 2:10 (Jesus turns the water into wine) "and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now."

I don't think this refers to juice.

Vary good point. Cheers. Off to my local pub for a brew. Oh and the Bible is a wounderfull STORY and should be told as such.

 

[GroovePuppy]

After a lifetime of going to church, bible school and bible college I have turned to there is probably not 1 God. but everyone needs something so if that is what you choose to believe than more power to you.

My one God can kick your multiple Gods' butts!!!!!

On a side note our Pastor has mentioned numerous times the book where this dude spends a year living completely Biblically. Did you know you're not allowed to shave? Anywhere?

 

[flyangler18]

Damn, sounds like you and I had the same experience. I enjoy my religion a lot more now that I really understand it and how my particular religion translates to my life. I have trouble believing Jesus walked around with such a stick up his arse as we are led to believe.

I'll count myself amongst the rabble. I grew up in the Catholic church, and I soured on organized religion as a teenager when my interest in history and the humanities led into a deeper understanding of the early church and the human side of theology. I'm very content with my faith and spirituality now as an adult, because I've come to it on my own terms.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

After a lifetime of going to church, bible school and bible college I have turned to there is probably not 1 God. but everyone needs something so if that is what you choose to believe than more power to you.

I believe that there is one God, and that everyone worships the same God in different ways. It is too bad that everyone seems to think they are right about the way to do it though.

My belief in God is mostly scientific based. If I were to base my faith on the Bible/Quran/Torah/etc. alone, I don't think I would believe.

 

[akamatt]

Ok I cant resest
Do you know why Jesus Christ quit playing Hocky.........He kept getting nailed to the boards........

 

[HBHoss]

So the word in Aremaic for juice and wine are the same?

Very little of the bible was in Aramaic. Most of it was written in Greek and there is quite a distinction between juice and wine.

 

[shecky]

Ok I cant resest
Do you know why Jesus Christ quit playing Hocky.........He kept getting nailed to the boards........

Now that's just wrong, which is why it's also damn funny.

 

[ChshreCat]

The annoying people who have to push their beliefs on everyone else are actually the minority of the "church people". You just don't notice the others because they leave you alone! I just wish the pushy ones would learn from the rest.

 

[mysigp226]

Actual facts from the 75 whatever link...

Disregard the first 58 unless you are Jewish. Followers of Jesus had the entire books of law negated at the coming of Jesus, by the creation of the new covenant.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

It says "drunkard" not "drinker". And that's not even discussing translation...that's simple comprehension of the english language translations.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

And? Peter walked on water. Im not John the Baptist or Peter, nor are you. Last I checked John didn't eat Jelly Donuts either. Please let me know when you intend to follow the other characteristics of John. I didn't think so.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.

Agreed. He also said don't gossip. And to remove the plank from your own eye before you try and remove the splinter from mine.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

I try not to. I've never been drunk in public. But given that you probably think wearing shorts would hurt my testimony I think we'll have to agree to disagree on what "hurts" my testimony. I prefer compassion and reality instead of hypocrisy and manipulation.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

Actually it says "addicted to" wine. Bzzzz...try again.

The whole point of this post is to point out that people can take anything out of context in the Bible and twist it to their own pre-conceived notions. You will _NEVER_ find a single scripture in the New Testament that says you are not to drink something that contains alcohol. You will find plenty of scripture that says you are to not be passed out drunk. That's two different things. And of course, there are a number of scripture versus that also point out that my gossiping is no better or worse than you being drunk. They are both sins, and all sin have the same "weight" in the eyes of the Lord.

Noodle over this one...

Acts 10:10-15 : "And [Peter] became hungry and was desiring to eat...and there were in it all kinds of...creatures of the earth...birds of the air...But Peter said, 'By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean [Peter was a 'strictly religious' Jew and was not allowed to drink alcohol because it was unholy]...And a voice came 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy"

Hurm...maybe we should stop calling things God has made "unholy" and unfit for eating/drinking. I wouldn't want to have to resurrect my website on the 75 Bible facts against Jelly Donuts.

-Tyler

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Heck, I'd probably have left right there on the spot. If my kind (the kind that likes a beer with dinner) was considered undesirable there, I'd not be inclined to give them my business regardless of how tasty the food is. The dude basically told you that you're not wholesome enough for him.

Probably true of course, but still.

+1 on that!

 

[Homercidal]

Now that's just wrong, which is why it's also damn funny.

Jesus Saves!




Gretzky rebounds and scores!

 

[Yooper]

Ok I cant resest
Do you know why Jesus Christ quit playing Hocky.........He kept getting nailed to the boards........

Jesus Saves!

Gretzky rebounds and scores!

You know, our hockey team has a saying. "I'm so going to hell" is what we say at each and every practice because we think stuff like this is uproariously funny. Good thing God has a sense of humor. (I hope!)

 

[Homercidal]

A long time ago I heard a song on the radio about a hockey player named Sami Shutzi Skorz. Not sure on the spelling. Wish I could find that. It was about an asian hockey player. Little Sami Shutzi Skorz when he gets the puck.

Yeah, nothing to do with the topic, but this just reminded me of that.


EDIT: Was about 1988-1990. Still can't find any reference. Heard it once or twice on either 98.5 WJGS (back then) Houghton Lake, or 93.3 WKQZ Bay City/Saginaw/Midland/Flint, on the morning show. Ok, it's driving me NUTZ now!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Well laid out mysigp226!!! The point the Bible is making is that being an alcoholic is not a good thing... as in, when you start selling your house and your kids toys so you can go the bar and drown your sorrows, then you are not being "Godly".

When the bible was written, the didn't have a term for alcoholism because they didn't diagnose every man woman and child with some sort of syndrome, disorder, tendancy, or problem. If you were a drunkard, you were a drinker. It was assumed that everyone was drinking alcohol everyday at all hours of the day. Equating everyone who imbibed alcohol in Biblical times with the word drinker is like saying we are all eaters, then saying that means we were all obese closet eaters... just not true. Twisting the words of religious texts is the reason religion is on a down swing.. why don't theologians and preachers of all faiths understand that? If they taught the good books as they were written religion would be much more popular.

 

[GroovePuppy]

Well laid out mysigp226!!!

+1

234567890

 

[MVKTR2]

This is a thread with a life of it's own, and again I'm continually impressed with the overwhelming majority of well thought out responses on HBT. Forgive my tardyness to this party as I've been way too busy the past few weeks to browse the DRMM threads.

I'm very happy to see a couple ministers on the board. I already knew Revvy was a minister. Come June I'll take my first full connection appointment in the United Methodist Church (that's Methodist speak for I sho nuff gonna be a minister in June). Living in MS the UMC's here run the gammut from all drinking is sinful to drink whatever ya want. My personal background is being raised Baptist in a dry county, having a Catholic grandfather, an Assembly of God (pentacostal light) grandfather, dated a Jewish girl, seen people speak in tounges at the AofG, my wife's family is all Mormon... how I wound up where I'm at, only God knows!

I'll save you the speach of what I believe which has already been covered by many others. What I do have to add to this discussion is a couple of facts about "wine" in the new testament.

The original Greek text used 3 words for "wine". One was absolutely a fresh pressed non fermented grape/fruit juice. One was absolutely a fermented beverage containing alcohol. The prohibitionist that actually have any knowledge of this will point out this is the word most often used when drunkeness is mentioned. But the rub is that the 3rd word had a universal use for any type of fruit wine fermented or not. This is the reason language study is so important to proper Biblical understanding and training for ministry. A great example of this is when Christ says to be "full" of the Spirit. The Greek word used literally means overflowing. In the Greek context a glass could be filled to the brim and actually be higher than the brim but not overflowing and would not be yet considered "full". Kind of puts into context a deeper truer understanding of that text versus simply reading a modern translation/transliteration.

Keep in mind folks that just because someone disagrees with you about alcohol or politics or whatever doesn't mean they're judging you, they've simply come to a different conclusion. Sure there are plenty of idiots in the world and they come in all races, relitions, sizes, etc, just don't become that which you dispise. Meet ignorance with love, think Ghandi/Martin Luther King. (and yes I know how cheezy that sounds and how hard it can be to do at times)

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[yeoldebrewer]

This is an interesting thread. Nothing raises people's hackles faster than religion and politics. Mixing the two is matches and gasoline.

I personally don't care how many Angelino Jolies can pole dance on the head of a pin as long as we are free to shake hands and disagree.

 

[JayC]

...Heck at ONE of the churches I interred at as a student, the minister and I would head out to the Ann Arbor Brewing Company, every Sunday after church to "decompress."

I know someone else has commented on this, but I still think it's hard core that they had you burying people as a student. Know wonder you had to 'decompress'.

I remember a girl from my class in high school was speechless when she found out that my church served beer at the Greek Festival we had every year. Hell, we used to serve Ouzo, until the permits became too expensive/stringent. That or maybe we had our own 'church folks' within the church that objected, I never did get a full answer on that one. Of course, I was twelve at the time, so who knows?

A book I recently read, 'Fermenting Revolution' I think, suggests that Jesus actually drank beer. It claims the original translation said that he drank 'strong drink' and that later translators made that wine, basically out of snobbery. The book raises the question of, would Jesus drink the same stuff the rich, snooty Romans were drinking, or the drink of the salt of the earth folks. The second seems more consistent with his M.O.

I wonder if I can make a 'What Would Jesus Drink' bumper sticker?