what's the deal with church folks???

[Parker36]

I think turning water into wine constitutes making wine, not to mention condoning it's consumption.

Jesus is my dealer.

 

[GroovePuppy]

Jesus is my dealer.

Preach it!

 

[HBHoss]

They might want to check fact 4.



I think turning water into wine constitutes making wine, not to mention condoning it's consumption.

Totally agree. (but only 'cause Gnomey threatened to boycott my posts if I didn't)

 

[akamatt]

Understanding that this is not my opinion but, fact 2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

They might want to check fact 4.



I think turning water into wine constitutes making wine, not to mention condoning it's consumption.

 

[Parker36]

In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice.

Wait, what? Don't we just call that juice? Was wine just so popular they had to name the stuff, not wine?

 

[beergears]

Understanding that this is not my opinion but, fact 2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

I was hoping for some reference to apfelwein

How do you say apfelwein in Arameic...?

 

[akamatt]

Wait, what? Don't we just call that juice? Was wine just so popular they had to name the stuff, not wine?

I think the point is that the Aramaic translation is not perfect to English

 

[GroovePuppy]

Understanding that this is not my opinion but, fact 2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

Yeah, I think that's a very convenient interpretation. Funny that the same group of people aren't nearly so open to the interpretation of what the bible says about homosexuality or about the various blatant rewrites on the subject.

I think "Everything in moderation" is a reasonable credo. Except when applied to heroin. And to moderation of course.

 

[GroovePuppy]

I was hoping for some reference to apfelwein

How do you say apfelwein in Arameic...?

I believe it's pronounced "ohmyfugginhead"!

Can we get away from debating now and back to the ramblings?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

This can't be serious..... at least I really hope not. yesterday, tomorrow and forever, huh???

So we are to believe that all these Christians back int he day, who were so great, and gave away all their possessions and devoted themselves to God, were fortunate enough to survive solely on fruit juice? Until very recent times, water was extremely unsafe and almost no-one drank straight water (small beer was the Gatorade of the day). So if good Christians drank no alcohol, ever, but drank fruit juice, they were either extremely rich or had a constant case of the runs....

silly

 

[Parker36]

So the word in Aremaic for juice and wine are the same?

 

[beergears]

So the word in Aremaic for juice and wine are the same?

Next door, in Arameic, it's not!

 

[akamatt]

I attended Central Bible College Springfield, MO for a year, a Professor was teaching that we should never drink and referred to a verse that said "do not drink until the point of drunkenness or eat until the point of obesity" this guy was fat and I called him on it and he told to "stay skinny and preach that" WHAT to abstain for eating ?!?!?!?! I was told to sit down

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

So is the modern day excuse, that the consumption of any amount of alcohol drinking to drunkenness? I guess that is what you would have to think, and then excuse previous generations because they had to drink out of necessity.

 

[GroovePuppy]

This can't be serious..... at least I really hope not. yesterday, tomorrow and forever, huh???

So we are to believe that all these Christians back int he day, who were so great, and gave away all their possessions and devoted themselves to God, were fortunate enough to survive solely on fruit juice? Until very recent times, water was extremely unsafe and almost no-one drank straight water (small beer was the Gatorade of the day). So if good Christians drank no alcohol, ever, but drank fruit juice, they were either extremely rich or had a constant case of the runs....

silly

I love it when the truth is so obvious and so absolute. My "religious" teenage years turned me off from religion until my mid-thirties. Now I realize (or believe at least) that most of what I was taught was up-tight, Victorianism and prudishness with no real Biblical justification.

 

[shecky]

I love it when the truth is so obvious and so absolute. My "religious" teenage years turned me off from religion until my mid-thirties. Now I realize (or believe at least) that most of what I was taught was up-tight, Victorianism and prudishness with no real Biblical justification.

Damn, sounds like you and I had the same experience. I enjoy my religion a lot more now that I really understand it and how my particular religion translates to my life. I have trouble believing Jesus walked around with such a stick up his arse as we are led to believe.

 

[Parker36]

I love it when the truth is so obvious and so absolute. My "religious" teenage years turned me off from religion until my mid-thirties. Now I realize (or believe at least) that most of what I was taught was up-tight, Victorianism and prudishness with no real Biblical justification.

Surprise!:fro: Look on the brightside, at least you got the bad part out of the way.

 

[GroovePuppy]

Damn, sounds like you and I had the same experience. I enjoy my religion a lot more now that I really understand it and how my particular religion translates to my life. I have trouble believing Jesus walked around with such a stick up his arse as we are led to believe.

Not to mention that the uptight religious folks weren't exactly who he hung out with!!!!

Surprise!:fro: Look on the brightside, at least you got the bad part out of the way.

lol! You know if my parents fessed up that it was all just a big laugh I think I'd have more respect for them. I decided not to tell them about the gay wedding we had at church a few months back!!

 

[akamatt]

Damn, sounds like you and I had the same experience. I enjoy my religion a lot more now that I really understand it and how my particular religion translates to my life. I have trouble believing Jesus walked around with such a stick up his arse as we are led to believe.

After a lifetime of going to church, bible school and bible college I have turned to there is probably not 1 God. but everyone needs something so if that is what you choose to believe than more power to you.

 

[HBHoss]

I think the point is that the Aramaic translation is not perfect to English

Psalms 104:14,15 "You cause the grass to grow for the cattle, and plants for people to use, to bring forth food from the earth, and wine to gladden the human heart, oil to make the face shine,..."

John 2:10 (Jesus turns the water into wine) "and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now."

I don't think this refers to juice.

 

[akamatt]

Psalms 104:14,15 "You cause the grass to grow for the cattle, and plants for people to use, to bring forth food from the earth, and wine to gladden the human heart, oil to make the face shine,..."

John 2:10 (Jesus turns the water into wine) "and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now."

I don't think this refers to juice.

Vary good point. Cheers. Off to my local pub for a brew. Oh and the Bible is a wounderfull STORY and should be told as such.

 

[GroovePuppy]

After a lifetime of going to church, bible school and bible college I have turned to there is probably not 1 God. but everyone needs something so if that is what you choose to believe than more power to you.

My one God can kick your multiple Gods' butts!!!!!

On a side note our Pastor has mentioned numerous times the book where this dude spends a year living completely Biblically. Did you know you're not allowed to shave? Anywhere?

 

[flyangler18]

Damn, sounds like you and I had the same experience. I enjoy my religion a lot more now that I really understand it and how my particular religion translates to my life. I have trouble believing Jesus walked around with such a stick up his arse as we are led to believe.

I'll count myself amongst the rabble. I grew up in the Catholic church, and I soured on organized religion as a teenager when my interest in history and the humanities led into a deeper understanding of the early church and the human side of theology. I'm very content with my faith and spirituality now as an adult, because I've come to it on my own terms.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

After a lifetime of going to church, bible school and bible college I have turned to there is probably not 1 God. but everyone needs something so if that is what you choose to believe than more power to you.

I believe that there is one God, and that everyone worships the same God in different ways. It is too bad that everyone seems to think they are right about the way to do it though.

My belief in God is mostly scientific based. If I were to base my faith on the Bible/Quran/Torah/etc. alone, I don't think I would believe.

 

[akamatt]

Ok I cant resest
Do you know why Jesus Christ quit playing Hocky.........He kept getting nailed to the boards........

 

[HBHoss]

So the word in Aremaic for juice and wine are the same?

Very little of the bible was in Aramaic. Most of it was written in Greek and there is quite a distinction between juice and wine.

 

[shecky]

Ok I cant resest
Do you know why Jesus Christ quit playing Hocky.........He kept getting nailed to the boards........

Now that's just wrong, which is why it's also damn funny.

 

[ChshreCat]

The annoying people who have to push their beliefs on everyone else are actually the minority of the "church people". You just don't notice the others because they leave you alone! I just wish the pushy ones would learn from the rest.

 

[mysigp226]

Actual facts from the 75 whatever link...

Disregard the first 58 unless you are Jewish. Followers of Jesus had the entire books of law negated at the coming of Jesus, by the creation of the new covenant.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

It says "drunkard" not "drinker". And that's not even discussing translation...that's simple comprehension of the english language translations.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

And? Peter walked on water. Im not John the Baptist or Peter, nor are you. Last I checked John didn't eat Jelly Donuts either. Please let me know when you intend to follow the other characteristics of John. I didn't think so.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.

Agreed. He also said don't gossip. And to remove the plank from your own eye before you try and remove the splinter from mine.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

I try not to. I've never been drunk in public. But given that you probably think wearing shorts would hurt my testimony I think we'll have to agree to disagree on what "hurts" my testimony. I prefer compassion and reality instead of hypocrisy and manipulation.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

Actually it says "addicted to" wine. Bzzzz...try again.

The whole point of this post is to point out that people can take anything out of context in the Bible and twist it to their own pre-conceived notions. You will _NEVER_ find a single scripture in the New Testament that says you are not to drink something that contains alcohol. You will find plenty of scripture that says you are to not be passed out drunk. That's two different things. And of course, there are a number of scripture versus that also point out that my gossiping is no better or worse than you being drunk. They are both sins, and all sin have the same "weight" in the eyes of the Lord.

Noodle over this one...

Acts 10:10-15 : "And [Peter] became hungry and was desiring to eat...and there were in it all kinds of...creatures of the earth...birds of the air...But Peter said, 'By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean [Peter was a 'strictly religious' Jew and was not allowed to drink alcohol because it was unholy]...And a voice came 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy"

Hurm...maybe we should stop calling things God has made "unholy" and unfit for eating/drinking. I wouldn't want to have to resurrect my website on the 75 Bible facts against Jelly Donuts.

-Tyler

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Heck, I'd probably have left right there on the spot. If my kind (the kind that likes a beer with dinner) was considered undesirable there, I'd not be inclined to give them my business regardless of how tasty the food is. The dude basically told you that you're not wholesome enough for him.

Probably true of course, but still.

+1 on that!