What's the big deal with kit brewing

[New beer brewer2018]

So I'm brand new to brewing I 've done a total of 2 batches 1 I've been drinking (coopers Lager) and turned out great!!! The other (Coopers Real Ale) is still in the FV. But the couple people I know that brew are already asking or telling me you need to do all grain...now I've had all grain brews and by no means am I saying that my Coopers Lager is as good but I'm thoroughly enjoying drinking it...and I have two kids and enough time to do extract kits...where I would not have the time to do all grain...so my question is why does everyone that brews constantly push all grain???? Or you're a cheater if your extract brewing...

 

[TripleC223]

The "all-grain or bust" mentality is elitist, but I wouldn't say it's universal. Most people on HBT are supportive of homebrewers no matter how they do it. If extract kits work best for you, and the results are satisfactory, then by all means keep at it. There are still more than enough elements to "master" with extract brewing. It can keep you busy for decades.

All-grain allows more flexibility with recipes, and it adds another layer to the process. However, the tradeoff is time spent (2-3 additional hours for a mash and cleanup?) and more things to screw up (mash temp, DMS, stuck sparges, etc). That's not even considering equipment costs.

Bottom line is you can still make great beer and have fun doing it with extract. I also have two young kids, and a wife whom I like to hang out with, so extract and partial mash is what works for me.

Do what works for you.

 

[IrregularPulse]

It's your hobby. Do it how you want. AG is a progression and people typically progress hobbies. Doesn't mean you have to. The idea is that you're not "making" beer with extract, you're just mixing it up. People also like feeling better than others and push their insecurities on others. If you enjoy it, save yourself the time and MONEY (hint, it is not cheaper to brew your own beer) and stick with extract.

 

[IslandLizard]

Nothing wrong with brewing extract, as long as you are satisfied with the results.

Extract brewing can limit you in brewing some beers or accurately to style, but if you're not after those, then it wouldn't matter.
If extract brewing makes the difference between brewing or not brewing, then stick with extracts.

There are a few pointers to making extract beers better:

• If you use tap water for brewing make sure it is soft (low in minerals) and if it contains Chlorine or Chloramines (most municipal water does) treat it with a good pinch of "Meta" (Potassium or Sodium Metabisulfite) or 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons.
• Otherwise use RO water.
• Obtain fresh ingredients, especially when using LME (Liquid Malt Extract).
• Only boil with 1/3 of the extract, adding the balance right before or right after flameout.
• To obtain higher bitterness/hoppiness do full volume boils.
• You don't need to buy kits, you can compound recipes with ingredients sourced in bulk.
• Read HBT

 

[New beer brewer2018]

Nice to be a part of a group of guys that aren't judgy about how ya do it...I got all the live in the world for the guys that do AG and I'm not saying ill NEVER do it but I feel like your 2nd batch in is a little early like TripleC223 said I got a long way to go my 1st two I went by kit instructions...I still have to expirement with dry hopping...steeping flavor grains....mini mashing...messing with fermentables...etc

 

[New beer brewer2018]

Nothing wrong with brewing extract, as long as you are satisfied with the results.

Extract brewing can limit you in brewing some beers or accurately to style, but if you're not after those, then it wouldn't matter.
If extract brewing makes the difference between brewing or not brewing, then stick with extracts.

There are a few pointers to making extract beers better:

• If you use tap water for brewing make sure it is soft (low in minerals) and if it contains Chlorine or Chloramines (most municipal water does) treat it with a good pinch of "Meta" (Potassium or Sodium Metabisulfite) or 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons.
• Otherwise use RO water.
• Obtain fresh ingredients, especially when using LME (Liquid Malt Extract).
• Only boil with 1/3 of the extract, adding the balance right before or right after flameout.
• To obtain higher bitterness/hoppiness do full volume boils.
• You don't need to buy kits, you can compound recipes with ingredients sourced in bulk.
• Read HBT

Thanks so much for the advice...truly appreciated

 

[IslandLizard]

Steeping grains is very easy and gives you a lot of control and flexibility, and access to 1000s of recipes. Just make sure those grains are "true" steeping grains that don't need to be mashed (they need to be well milled though!). Using steeping grains and light malt extract you can brew light beers as well as the darkest Stout and anything in between. With steeping grains there is no need to buy darker malt extracts than the lightest you can get.

• All caramel and crystal malts, as well as most dark roasted malts, are steeping grains.
• Any flaked product (flaked wheat, flaked corn, flaked oats, etc.) needs to be mashed together with some diastatic (base) malt.
• All base malts need to be mashed.

To use ingredients that need to be mashed you can do a mini mash in a large pot in a prewarmed and turned off oven. It adds a good hour to your brew day, but it does it by itself, you don't have to baby it.

Aside from HBT, read How to Brew by John Palmer, the latest, 4th edition came out last year and has lots of updates over his 2006 3rd edition. There's also an online 1st edition, good for in a pinch lookup, basic brewing techniques don't change (much), although other areas are perhaps a bit dated.

 

[MaxStout]

You don't need to do AG to sit at the cool kids' table. Plenty of people make excellent beer from extract. Some win awards. Some very experienced brewers prefer to stick with extract brewing, and do quite well with it.

Some people make crappy beer from all grain.

It's more important to work on the process, whether you're doing extract or AG. Pick the right ingredients, maintain good sanitation practices, pitch an adequate amount of yeast and keep them healthy, control fermentation temps, and always strive to improve. You came out of the starting gate with a couple very good beers, so you're already ahead of the game.

 

[New beer brewer2018]

Steeping grains is very easy and gives you a lot of control and flexibility, and access to 1000s of recipes. Just make sure those grains are "true" steeping grains that don't need to be mashed (they need to be well milled though!). Using steeping grains and light malt extract you can brew light beers as well as the darkest Stout and anything in between. With steeping grains there is no need to buy darker malt extracts than the lightest you can get.

• All caramel and crystal malts, as well as most dark roasted malts, are steeping grains.
• Any flaked product (flaked wheat, flaked corn, flaked oats, etc.) needs to be mashed together with some diastatic (base) malt.
• All base malts need to be mashed.

To use ingredients that need to be mashed you can do a mini mash in a large pot in a prewarmed and turned off oven. It adds a good hour to your brew day, but it does it by itself, you don't have to baby it.

Aside from HBT, read How to Brew by John Palmer, the latest, 4th edition came out last year and has lots of updates over his 2006 3rd edition. There's also an online 1st edition, good for in a pinch lookup, basic brewing techniques don't change (much), although other areas are perhaps a bit dated.

Thank you for the advice

 

[kh54s10]

It is a choice. All grain allows more control over your beer. You don't know exactly what was used to make the extract. All grain will probably be a little lighter in a pale ale. Extracts tend to be darker, if that is of concern. All grain in the end is cheaper that extract, but requires equipment purchases up front Extract takes less time and is somewhat simpler. I do mostly all grain but will do an extract now and then. Personally I cannot really tell the difference in the final produce, unless maybe I had the same beer side by side. A couple of my extracts would be in my top 20 out of 96 batches.

Another thought is that you can make extract brewing less expensive by sourcing your own ingredients rather than buying a kit. You can further save if you buy your grains, uncrushed, in bulk. I buy base grains buy the sack and specialty grains in 5 to 10 pound amounts. If you search around you can find these amounts cheaper than by the pound. You will need to invest in a mill though. I have a Corona style mill that cost less than $30. It has served me for 6.75 years so far.

 

[New beer brewer2018]

You don't need to do AG to sit at the cool kids' table. Plenty of people make excellent beer from extract. Some win awards. Some very experienced brewers prefer to stick with extract brewing, and do quite well with it.

Some people make crappy beer from all grain.

It's more important to work on the process, whether you're doing extract or AG. Pick the right ingredients, maintain good sanitation practices, pitch an adequate amount of yeast and keep them healthy, control fermentation temps, and always strive to improve. You came out of the starting gate with a couple very good beers, so you're already ahead of the game.

Yea man the Coopers Lager is really good ...I let a few people try it that normally drink Macro and they all gave it a thumbs up

 

[New beer brewer2018]

It is a choice. All grain allows more control over your beer. You don't know exactly what was used to make the extract. All grain will probably be a little lighter in a pale ale. Extracts tend to be darker, if that is of concern. All grain in the end is cheaper that extract, but requires equipment purchases up front Extract takes less time and is somewhat simpler. I do mostly all grain but will do an extract now and then. Personally I cannot really tell the difference in the final produce, unless maybe I had the same beer side by side. A couple of my extracts would be in my top 20 out of 96 batches.

Another thought is that you can make extract brewing less expensive by sourcing your own ingredients rather than buying a kit. You can further save if you buy your grains, uncrushed, in bulk. I buy base grains buy the sack and specialty grains in 5 to 10 pound amounts. If you search around you can find these amounts cheaper than by the pound. You will need to invest in a mill though. I have a Corona style mill that cost less than $30. It has served me for 6.75 years so far.

Nice thanks bud

 

[Redpappy]

As everyone has said, this is your hobby, as long as you enjoy how you are doing it, that is all that matters. I have seen/read where guys that was doing all grain who changed over to extract. Just because it was what fits in their lifestyle

 

[TripleC223]

I have a Corona style mill that cost less than $30. It has served me for 6.75 years so far.

Is that a true Corona-brand mill, or another version? I'm looking to buy one, but there are a lot of options and I'd like to make sure it's a quality product first.

 

[troglodytes]

Some people make crappy beer from all grain.

I know I have from time to time. I've also had some of my worst brew days happen because of the more complicated brew day involved with all grain.

I'll just say for me all grain was the right move for me because:

1) Mash temp control allowed me to affect my FG and dry out beers that I wanted dry
2) In the same vein, I'm developing a recipe from the ground up with every little detail affecting the final product
3) I love little projects and my entire setup is pretty much homemade
4) I've found that 80% of my brews taste better than my extract brews
5) I only spend about $15-25 per 6 gallon batch now that I buy grains/hops in bulk

The trade offs are:

1) Longer brew day
2) Recipe planning/prep is more involved (as well as note taking)
3) My stouts and porters don't turn out as good (I'm working on it)
4) Equipment cost (minimal, but material; as I said everything is homemade)

 

[stosh]

Spot on advice from some vets here on HBT.

I have friends who brew all grain and they make the best beer I have ever had. Period.

In fact, they inspired me to start extract brewing. The beer I make satisfies ME and so far everyone who has had it. That's all that matters.

This is MY hobby that I do for myself. I also have two children and my 3 year old son helped me brew a DIPA last Sunday. I was spending time with my family and enjoyed a stress free day away from work.

There are so many things you can do to experiment w/extract and become a better brewer. That is my trajectory right now. Eventually I'll end up all grain but am in no hurry. I have my process streamlined so I can brew a batch in about 3 hours from lighting my burner to cleaning my gear afterwards. Time effective way to spend a Sunday morning and have the rest of the day to myself.

Introduce some friends or neighbors to it and if you're like me you'll find yourself spending better quality time with them.

Make sure YOU enjoy it and have fun.

 

[TwistedGray]

...so my question is why does everyone that brews constantly push all grain????

Repeating what someone else said, I would agree that's the elitist attitude.

I've only brewed with extract and fresh ingredients and haven't had a bad beer (have had bad ciders though). I typically try to find a base beer that I want to build mine off of and then add in everything that I want in a beer in split batches.

At this point I don't see the value in spending the $$$$ on an all-grain build out...maybe if a used build pops up locally.

I would like to see someone run an all-grain and an extract side by side and have blind tasting. I am sure there are reads/videos about that worth looking up.

 

[troglodytes]

R
I would like to see someone run an all-grain and an extract side by side and have blind tasting. I am sure there are reads/videos about that worth looking up.

You could do that with my extract vs all-grain version of the deception cream stout from the recipes section. The extract version is much better!

That being said, don't let money be whats holding you back from all-grain brewing. I love my setup and its literally:

10 gallon igloo cooler (add ball valve an some washers to make a mash tun)
Homemade immersion chiller (probably $25 total) and I chill 6 gallons to 68F in about 12-15 minutes
10 gallon aluminum stock pot from Amazon
Brew bag (for cooler mash tun)

Total: ~$125-150 dollars

Keep in mind that I now can order grain in bulk and only send about $15-25 per batch instead of extract batches that used to be $30-40.

 

[TwistedGray]

That being said, don't let money be whats holding you back from all-grain brewing.

Good point!

 

[NeoBrew]

Brewing is more than 50% fermentation. (Made up statistic) as you progress work on the fermentation process to get it right. It applies to both extract and all grain. It will have a bigger impact on the quality of your beer than switching to all grain.

Like others have said, all grain is not necessary. For me it was about learning new things and getting fun new equipment. But if you can keep that genie in the bottle and just enjoy the simplicity of extract brewing, then enjoy it for what it is. There is nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[New beer brewer2018]

Thanks guys...this is what I expected from my friends a community of brewers coming together sharing information...seriously thanks again

 

[MaxStout]

In brewing, like many endeavors, you'll find some point-counterpoint situations. People lined up on either side of two different choices, and neither side necessarily wrong.

all-grain vs. extract
kegging vs. bottling
BIAB vs 3-vessel AG
glass carboys vs. plastic

And so forth. Go with what works best for you. And if you decide to change something and need info, start a thread and lots of people here will give their experiences to assist you. If you make good beer, it's all good.

 

[kh54s10]

Is that a true Corona-brand mill, or another version? I'm looking to buy one, but there are a lot of options and I'd like to make sure it's a quality product first.

I got it as a gift but I'm sure it is a generic corn mill. They are all pretty much the same. You will probably have to do some fiddling with it to get it to mill malted barley the way needed for brewing. You usually have to add some washers on the bolts between the plates. I did.

Mine has no guard over the grinding plates. I suggest you find one that has one or you will need to fashion something that will keep the milled grain from flying all over the place.

A corona style shreds the husks more than a roller mill. But I get pretty consistent brews with mine.

 

[kh54s10]

Cost of equipment to do all grain varies greatly from just a pot large enough for the size batch and a BIAB Bag. To fully automatic electric rigs and multitudes in between.

I was doing my 3rd extract when I started collecting equipment for an all grain 3 vessel gravity fed rig. I then did a 4th extract and 4 partial mash recipes until I completed my all grain rig.

That said I have far more money invested in my before and after boiling equipment. 6 Better Bottle fermenters, 2 bucket fermenters, 1 home built fermentation chamber that will hold 3 fermenters, one chest freezer that will hold 2 fermenters, 3 temperature controllers, stirplate, flask, vials for frozen yeast, auto siphons, tubing, 4 kegs, refrigerator kegerator that will hold 3 kegs, hundreds of bottles, utility sink for my brew room, water filtration. The list goes on and on and on.......

 

[RM-MN]

Repeating what someone else said, I would agree that's the elitist attitude.

I've only brewed with extract and fresh ingredients and haven't had a bad beer (have had bad ciders though). I typically try to find a base beer that I want to build mine off of and then add in everything that I want in a beer in split batches.

At this point I don't see the value in spending the $$$$ on an all-grain build out...maybe if a used build pops up locally.

I would like to see someone run an all-grain and an extract side by side and have blind tasting. I am sure there are reads/videos about that worth looking up.

I don't think it is just an elitist attitude nor is it all about spending money. I like to have a little more challenge than just pouring extract into water and boiling it and all grain gives that, plus it opens the door to way more grain combinations and much more control over how the beer will turn out.

My entry cost to go all grain, including a mill since my LHBS doesn't have one, was $28.75 to go BIAB with the kettle I had, hardly an impediment to someone who wants to brew. Since then I added a bigger kettle as the one I had limits me to 2 1/2 gallon batches. Then I discovered that:

1. My back would not take lifting the bigger kettle full of wort to chill or empty into the fermenter.
2. I'm the only drinker and don't drink a lot so a 5 gallon batch is enough to last me 2 months.
3. I like to have a variety of beers on hand because today I may feel like a stout and tomorrow a pale ale and the next day something else. That gets to be a lot of bottles of beer to store.
4. I like to try different recipes. Like 10 different ones a year. With 5 gallon batches that would be 50 gallons. That's a lot of beer for me to drink. Then I also like to have the old standby recipes too. More beer yet!

Now I'm back to the 2 1/2 gallon batches and finding that I can make an all grain beer in the same time as I was doing an extract batch. With my cheap Corona mill set tight it doesn't take an hour for conversion so I can cut the mash period. With BIAB I don't even have to sparge and when I do sparge (almost always because it ups efficiency) I can sparge while the wort it coming up to boil and thus it only adds the time to bring the sparge up to temp. I also read that 90% of the bittering happens in 30 minutes and that most of the time I don't have to boil for 60 minutes to get DMS out so my boil time is now usually 30 minutes. I may miss out on some of the bittering but I've never noticed that.

 

[pozmantv]

I like you have a child and busy lifestyle. I love brewing but doing it consistently over time is hard.

Like others have said it comes down to you and what time is available.

Occasionally I'll go all out with grains etc, other times i'll go real basic with just the tins and dry hop heavily.

Today I brought a pre made IPA wort from a home brew shop. All I have to do is add 5lt of water and yeast. Dry hop around 4 days.

So it's no big deal to do what suits. In my eyes it sure isn't a competition or expected to create all out brews everytime.

That's what home brew is all about right?

 

[IslandLizard]

@RM-MN has some very valid points on reducing All Grain brew time. Now All Grain does take some extra equipment, time, work, and planning that could make all the difference between the OP brewing or not at all.

I like the 2.5 gallon batches approach for more variety over more of the same. Now if the beer needs to lager or condition for 3-6 weeks, I'd rather have 5 or 10 gallons in the end, especially when I share it with others or take to events.

The 30 minute boil is probably the most time saving, as indeed, most bittering takes place early on in the boil. That could be applied to extract brewing as well. Just add a tad more (~20-25%?) bittering hops to make up the difference.

The 30 minute mash sounds interesting, and yes, a very fine grist and good agitation in a BIAB aids a speedy conversion tremendously.

These are avenues the OP can certainly consider if and when he wants to do AG. But overall, if time is of the essence, not much beats an extract brew. One could brew a batch with a short boil within an hour and a half.

 

[NGD]

Extract brewing for me means creating a usually pleasing (unless I really screw up), drinkable beer in 2.5-3hrs.

 

[irontodd]

I brewed about 10 batches of extract beer before I decided to try partial mash. Did one of those then went to all grain. Ran into a coworker recently at the LHBS and chatted with him for a bit. He said he's been brewing extract for years. To each his own. We haven't gotten together yet for a brew day but I am sure we will at some point. Me, personally, I like spending $ on toys for my hobbies, and less expensive ingredients let's me get more toys sooner.

 

[Sprint10]

IMO I do extract because its simple, however it is correct that you can be more flexible with the recipes you make in all grain. But extract offers more flexibility than one might think (at least for me) because my LHBS sells everything you see inside of a kit singly. Even in Brew Your Own magazine for almost every recipe you see they have a extract recipe to go with it.

 

[brewgar]

Repeating what someone else said, I would agree that's the elitist attitude.

I've only brewed with extract and fresh ingredients and haven't had a bad beer (have had bad ciders though). I typically try to find a base beer that I want to build mine off of and then add in everything that I want in a beer in split batches.

At this point I don't see the value in spending the $$$$ on an all-grain build out...maybe if a used build pops up locally.

I would like to see someone run an all-grain and an extract side by side and have blind tasting. I am sure there are reads/videos about that worth looking up.

I actually did an extract batch and an all grain batch of the same beer last Fall. Recipes for the two Irish Red Ales were the same except the all grain/extract difference. Both were good. The all grain was better. Using the BIAB method with AG is as easy as the extract method, with no additional equipment, except the bag. My AG process does take about 30 minutes longer than extract.

 

[Kent88]

Biggest thing I keep repeating to myself is "taste is subjective, I need to do what I can to satisfy my own palette and my own curiosities".

I brew mostly 3-gallon batches, I call my method "partial-extract" because I almost always load up my 3-gallon mash tun with as much malt as I'm comfortable putting in there. I then supplement with dry extract. Usually I don't have to add much extract, I usually get most of my fermentable sugars from grain. I'm just more comfortable with dry extract rather than syrup, and I end up using extra by baking pizza dough, bread, pretzels, waffles, etc with it.

I switched to partial-extract because I found that I really liked beers with made with munich malt and I had trouble finding a dry munich malt extract (and I've only found one supplier so far, and I haven't tried it yet). So if I wanted to to make a munich malt heavy beer, like a bock, I needed to make it myself.

I also found that I like some beers with adjuncts. I have made a good rye ale and I keep forgetting I did that and I don't understand why I haven't made one since. I have also adopted an oatmeal-cream stout recipe as my go-to house stout recipe. There are some rye syrup extracts out there, but I haven't found many. And if you want an oatmeal stout, you'll have to do a mash, or at least a mini-mash (which is a mash, there is nothing partial about that, but whatever, some people still call it a partial-mash) to get some enzymes to work on the starches in the oats.

That is why I use all-grain and partial-extract methods, because I want to use malts/grains that I don't usually find in extract form and don't work by steeping. But if you're happy with extract, great! Go for it! There is a phrase I've been hearing lately around the internets, "I don't want to yuck your yum". Don't let people yuck your yum.

 

[waldoar15]

Eh, brew however you like.

I'd say the majority here started out brewing extract kits and branched out from there. I did.

Personally, I was never really happy with my extract brews, but part of that was because I was a new brewer.

 

[TwistedGray]

I actually did an extract batch and an all grain batch of the same beer last Fall. Recipes for the two Irish Red Ales were the same except the all grain/extract difference. Both were good. The all grain was better.

Curious how you quantified the all grain version was better? And are we talking marginally better or day and night difference?

 

[lump42]

I started out with 1 gal AG, moved to 5 g AG. Then I had a kid and I have been brewing more extract than AG. I enjoy the process of all grain, but if it comes to brewing or not, I have no problem with extract.

Extract is more expensive, but I've always seen it as buying someone else's time (or buying your own time back). Time is more limited and precious to me now, so its cheaper to brew extract from that view.

 

[TwistedGray]

I also brew during my work day, so I try to limit the interruptions. While it does extend my work day it all jives with it well enough to not be a distraction. I reserve my weekends for drinking said brew, and pestering my wife.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

To the OP - @New beer brewer2018 -

a) Do what you want, and do what you like. Period.

If interested in considering another option, read on....

b) I have 4 kids and commute 25 miles to work and back. Busy and hectic. I started with 1-gallon all-grain from Brooklyn Brew Shop, and never looked back. After doing a bunch of their pre-packaged mixes, I started trying a few tried-and-true recipes, then before long I was creating my own...with mostly good success and only one outright failure, which was completely my fault. This concept fits my lifestyle perfectly, and I've learned more about the fundamentals of brewing that I would have thought possible in such a short time.

It might be an option for you, if you want to take a look:

Kits: https://brooklynbrewshop.com/collections/beer-making-kits

Pre-packaged mixes: https://brooklynbrewshop.com/collections/beer-making-mixes

I'll be the first to admit that they might be a bit over-priced, if you're looking solely at ingredients and equipment; however, the knowledge you pick up is worth it, in my opinion, and makes these a very good gateway into all-grain brewing. If you have an LHBS nearby, you can of course just get the equipment and the grains, but to me, the "gateway" factor makes these worth a try. It certainly doesn't cost too much to find out, and it never hurts to have some small-batch equipment around.

Food for thought....

Ron

 

[jpakstis]

Yeah, if it works go with it! For me the only "brew day" smell that rivals adding hops to the boil is the smell of doughing in the grains. If you're going to be steeping grains, you're already 75% of the way there to BIAB in my mind.

 

[TwistedGray]

And we're off to the races!

 

[brewgar]

Curious how you quantified the all grain version was better? And are we talking marginally better or day and night difference?

The differences between the AG and the extract brew of same Irish Red Ale recipe were "clearly noticeable." You know how leftovers from a delicious dish aren't as "tasty" the next day, with tastes and aromas subdued and or muddled in the leftovers? For the entire time these two bottled beers were in my serving pipeline, the extract version was, although good, clearly the "leftover" version. I hope this helps.