What's been your game changer for LOB?

[Panderson1]

I would definitely do that if I could fit a keg inside my fermentation fridge.

I'm thinking of drilling a small hole for the line. Can keep the door closed.. Anyone else do this?

 

[balrog]

My FC is just 2" foamboard and I just mash the lid on the lines leading out

 

[Consigliere]

I'm thinking of drilling a small hole for the line. Can keep the door closed.. Anyone else do this?

Yup I do this. Run all wires and hoses out through the side of the fridge. This way can fit 2 fermenters

 

[beersk]

It may well be....but the preboil is about as foolproof as there is, which is why I did it that way.

The more variables you have, the more process steps you have, the more likely SOMETHING will go wrong. At least when starting this LOB thing, simpler, IMO, is better.

I disagree. I think YOS is the better and easier method. And Bryan has shown with his bioreactor that it will scavenge effectively for up to 96 hours. So treat your water and if you happen to not be able to brew the next day, you're OK. I did preboil for a long time and while I finally got it down, it's a pain to chill the water back down to your strike temp. A friend of mine uses hot water to chill his down more slowly. I never thought of that. But now when I do low O2 brewing, I always use YOS. And the friend I showed low O2 brewing to just switched as well and is amazed at how much easier it is.

 

[mongoose33]

I disagree. I think YOS is the better and easier method. And Bryan has shown with his bioreactor that it will scavenge effectively for up to 96 hours. So treat your water and if you happen to not be able to brew the next day, you're OK. I did preboil for a long time and while I finally got it down, it's a pain to chill the water back down to your strike temp. A friend of mine uses hot water to chill his down more slowly. I never thought of that. But now when I do low O2 brewing, I always use YOS. And the friend I showed low O2 brewing to just switched as well and is amazed at how much easier it is.

OK, but remember the context in which I wrote that: for a newbie, the fewer variables with which they must contend, the more likely the outcome will be the desired one.

Pre-boiling is as foolproof as it can be, which is why--for a first-timer--I think that's the preferred method. You might think--or might not--that complicating things needlessly at first is a recipe for success, but if so, I disagree. As a retired educator, I think I know a little about that subject, and thus, my conclusion.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

As a retired educator, I think I know a little about that subject, and thus, my conclusion.

Well as a current educator, I disagree with you!

Measuring "x" grams of dry yeast and "x" grams of sugar, placing in water, and stirring is much simpler of a process/variable for a newbie to navigate/manage than boiling and then chilling down to the proper temp needed-- nailing that temp after the boil is not easy and requires babysitting.

Additionally, pre-boiling vs. YOS also assumes the user possesses a chiller of some sort-- an ice bath would be horribly inefficient for this purpose (really any purpose!).

YOS-- measure "x" grams of yeast and sugar, add to water, use water in as little as 45 minutes or as much as 4 days after adding yeast/sugar.

 

[beersk]

Well as a current educator, I disagree with you!

Measuring "x" grams of dry yeast and "x" grams of sugar, placing in water, and stirring is much simpler of a process/variable for a newbie to navigate/manage than boiling and then chilling down to the proper temp needed-- nailing that temp after the boil is not easy and requires babysitting.

Additionally, pre-boiling vs. YOS also assumes the user possesses a chiller of some sort-- an ice bath would be horribly inefficient for this purpose (really any purpose!).

YOS-- measure "x" grams of yeast and sugar, add to water, use water in as little as 45 minutes or as much as 4 days after adding yeast/sugar.

Exactly. I don't even measure it by weight, I do 1 tablespoon of each per 5 gallons. Usually overnight because it just helps to get it ready ahead of time and you know it's good to go the next day. It's that simple.

 

[mongoose33]

Well as a current educator, I disagree with you!

Measuring "x" grams of dry yeast and "x" grams of sugar, placing in water, and stirring is much simpler of a process/variable for a newbie to navigate/manage than boiling and then chilling down to the proper temp needed-- nailing that temp after the boil is not easy and requires babysitting.

Additionally, pre-boiling vs. YOS also assumes the user possesses a chiller of some sort-- an ice bath would be horribly inefficient for this purpose (really any purpose!).

YOS-- measure "x" grams of yeast and sugar, add to water, use water in as little as 45 minutes or as much as 4 days after adding yeast/sugar.

Really? You want to die on the hill that it's too hard to cool water?

I don't know what caused you to get up on the wrong side of the bed today, but I hope it's better for you tomorrow.

 

[Bilsch]

Really? You want to die on the hill that it's too hard to cool water?

Clearly I'm prejudiced on this subject but the reason it exists is I was tired of all the hassle of boiling and cooling the strike water.

 

[day_trippr]

YOS Downside: I need to actually clean my HLT (with its 50' 1/2" hex coil) instead of simply rinsing and wiping it dry...

Cheers!

 

[effeffe]

Really? You want to die on the hill that it's too hard to cool water?

I don't know what caused you to get up on the wrong side of the bed today, but I hope it's better for you tomorrow.

The potential problem is not cooling per se, but cooling without reintroducing oxygen, especially with basic equipment. You may have to rely on sulfites quite a bit.

There is a fundamental difference between pre-boiling and yeast-based deoxygenation: the former ceases to be effective as soon as boiling stops, the latter gives active protection against oxygen as long as the yeast is alive.

 

[Brooothru]

YOS Downside: I need to actually clean my HLT (with its 50' 1/2" hex coil) instead of simply rinsing and wiping it dry...

Cheers!

Since I mash and boil in the same vessel (all-in-one electric), I grant you that my situation is a bit different. However, the exposed coils at the bottom of the kettle never require more than just a spray down, rinse and drying wipe down after use. That is to say, no additional effort than any other brew session.

The night before I fill up the strike water and heat it to about 95~104F, add the bread yeast and corn sugar, cover the pot, turn off the heat and go to bed. Next morning I heat the water up to strike temperature while crushing the grains, then mash in. Pretty damn simple.

 

[Brooothru]

The potential problem is not cooling per se, but cooling without reintroducing oxygen, especially with basic equipment. You may have to rely on sulfites quite a bit.

There is a fundamental difference between pre-boiling and yeast-based deoxygenation: the former ceases to be effective as soon as boiling stops, the latter gives active protection against oxygen as long as the yeast is alive.

Not only does boiling/chilling with a copper immersion chiller cease to be effective with regards to deoxygenation immediately after the boiling stops, but the introduction of a copper chiller brings with it the potential for oxidizing the wort from the oxides of copper on the surfaces of the coil itself. Copper begins 'rusting' (oxidizing) very quickly after the surface is exposed to air after cleaning (polishing), even if you don't see the tell-tale green streaks. That's why I bought a stainless steel IC. Not as efficient as copper in heat transference, but it doesn't oxidize nearly as much (vitually none).

 

[mongoose33]

Clearly I'm prejudiced on this subject but the reason it exists is I was tired of all the hassle of boiling and cooling the strike water.

At some point I'll try it, and others have had enough success with it that I'm sure it works. I know LOB works--I've produced some amazing beers, I have a local bar that wants to sell my beer, friends who want to pay commercial prices for it. But I'm not licensed and that's that.

My only point was that if trying to get a newbie to LOB to try it, simpler was better. Since preboiling is pretty foolproof it seemed like a reasonable thing to have a newbie do.

And if they can't cool strike water, then I'd wonder if they were advanced enough to even be thinking about it.

 

[beersk]

At some point I'll try it, and others have had enough success with it that I'm sure it works. I know LOB works--I've produced some amazing beers, I have a local bar that wants to sell my beer, friends who want to pay commercial prices for it. But I'm not licensed and that's that.

My only point was that if trying to get a newbie to LOB to try it, simpler was better. Since preboiling is pretty foolproof it seemed like a reasonable thing to have a newbie do.

And if they can't cool strike water, then I'd wonder if they were advanced enough to even be thinking about it.

It really is worth a try. Especially if you do a full volume mash. I guess, for me, it just simplifies having to deal with boiling and cooling down to mash temp. I don't have a sink next to my stove, so carrying the kettle to the laundry room to chill it down just isn't appealing. I know preboiilng was the first method to come out for low o2 brewing, but YOS is next gen, dude

 

[Konadog]

The night before I fill up the strike water and heat it to about 95~104F, add the bread yeast and corn sugar, cover the pot, turn off the heat and go to bed. Next morning I heat the water up to strike temperature while crushing the grains, then mash in. Pretty damn simple.

Question, do you transfer your water to a different pot, off of any settled yeast, or do you just boil the entire mess and dough in?

Not knocking the process, just want to understand it as I would like to try this for my next brew.

 

[hmbrw4life]

Question, do you transfer your water to a different pot, off of any settled yeast, or do you just boil the entire mess and dough in?

Not knocking the process, just want to understand it as I would like to try this for my next brew.

You may be confusing 2 different process's. YOS, would cause the yeast sediment (minor), and preboil would need the boiling. If using YOS, you heat to strike, add antioxidants, and dough in, no boil. If using preboil you would preboil and cool, without yeast (and yeast sediment).

Also if using YOS the mash provides a phenomenal filter bed and zero yeast remains post mash (if thats the boil you were speaking about).

 

[Konadog]

No, not confusing 2 different process's. What I was asking is after using YOS, you need to heat the water to strike temp and dough in. I was just wondering if you just heat the water, or if you need to do something to remove yeast before that.

Also if using YOS the mash provides a phenomenal filter bed and zero yeast remains post mash (if thats the boil you were speaking about).

That's the heating/boil I was speaking about. Thanks!

 

[Bilsch]

No, not confusing 2 different process's. What I was asking is after using YOS, you need to heat the water to strike temp and dough in. I was just wondering if you just heat the water, or if you need to do something to remove yeast before that.

Heat to ~100F add yeast and sugar then hold for an hour. Next heat to strike temperature as is, no need to do anything with the little bit of yeast sediment.

 

[VikeMan]

Heat to ~100F add yeast and sugar then hold for an hour. Next heat to strike temperature as is, no need to do anything with the little bit of yeast sediment.

Has anyone calculated the impact of the yeast on mash pH? (Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.)

 

[Bilsch]

Has anyone calculated the impact of the yeast on mash pH? (Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.)

Yes there is an impact and many have measured and keep track. Some even adjust for it although it is a very small amount.

 

[hmbrw4life]

Has anyone calculated the impact of the yeast on mash pH? (Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.)

Depending on the length of YOS time (longer is more), it can have a more notable impact on strike water pH(lower), and the resulting mash pH.

 

[Brooothru]

Question, do you transfer your water to a different pot, off of any settled yeast, or do you just boil the entire mess and dough in?

Not knocking the process, just want to understand it as I would like to try this for my next brew.

Nope, just start the water heating for dough-in in the same pot that I added the bread yeast and corn sugar. It may seem a little weird at first since the water will be a translucent shade of white, but the sugar/yeast combo will keep consuming dissolved O2 up until it gets denatured during the mash (around 140F). The microscopic solids left behind get absorbed by and are filtered out by the grain bed at mash out, just like a vorlauf does during lauter. There is no residual taste or murkiness as a result. The only alteration to water chemistry is the removal of dissolved O2. I've never had any scorching or caked on residue from the process that required anything more than just my normal soak, scrub and rinse.