What exactly does time do for my beer?

[Peevish]

I'm midway through my first brew, and I was wondering something. I have learnt a massive amount from this forum and its both an amazing way to keep me from wanting to bottle my brew, and also an evil way to make myself thirsty for my bubbling baby.

So my question is, what does increased time add to the beer exactly? I understand the science behind the yeast having time to do their work, and then to be given time to clean up after themselves, but in the all important taste-test, what does this time do to the beer.

My first brew is an APA, which was in primary for 2 and a half weeks, until last night when I put it in secondary - I understand the pros and cons of secondary, and to be honest next time I think I will leave it in primary, but I wanted to free my bucket up for my next brew.
Of course I had a nice taster before transferring. It tastes ... good! Despite it being flat it tasted like ... BEER! How can this be so? I was expecting a eggy nasty slop, but got beer - all those days of being sure those mistakes I made muddling through brew day (grommet in bucket, sanitation worries) gone!

I was wondering if the extra secondary time plus a good bottle conditioning would add a little to it though - as pleased as I am with it already, I was hoping for the first proper drink sometime next month to have a little more ... complexity. I know its an APA (I like a good IPA but they were out of the kits in my LHBS), but it seemed a little thin and bland.

So to cut out all that waffle, I guess my question is, will the time after primary fermentation add a little depth to my flavors, or is it more designed to mellow them out more? What difference can I reasonably expect nothing more than time (and carbonation) to give me, come D-Day?

Thanks for reading my novella, and also thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum, it is such an amazing resource, and has helped me hugely.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I'm midway through my first brew, and I was wondering something. I have learnt a massive amount from this forum and its both an amazing way to keep me from wanting to bottle my brew, and also an evil way to make myself thirsty for my bubbling baby.

So my question is, what does increased time add to the beer exactly? I understand the science behind the yeast having time to do their work, and then to be given time to clean up after themselves, but in the all important taste-test, what does this time do to the beer.

My first brew is an APA, which was in primary for 2 and a half weeks, until last night when I put it in secondary - I understand the pros and cons of secondary, and to be honest next time I think I will leave it in primary, but I wanted to free my bucket up for my next brew.
Of course I had a nice taster before transferring. It tastes ... good! Despite it being flat it tasted like ... BEER! How can this be so? I was expecting a eggy nasty slop, but got beer - all those days of being sure those mistakes I made muddling through brew day (grommet in bucket, sanitation worries) gone!

I was wondering if the extra secondary time plus a good bottle conditioning would add a little to it though - as pleased as I am with it already, I was hoping for the first proper drink sometime next month to have a little more ... complexity. I know its an APA (I like a good IPA but they were out of the kits in my LHBS), but it seemed a little thin and bland.

So to cut out all that waffle, I guess my question is, will the time after primary fermentation add a little depth to my flavors, or is it more designed to mellow them out more? What difference can I reasonably expect nothing more than time (and carbonation) to give me, come D-Day?

Thanks for reading my novella, and also thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum, it is such an amazing resource, and has helped me hugely.

An APA brewed with proper technique, recipe, sanitation, temp control, and pitch rate should be ready to be consumed in 3 weeks (+carb time if you're bottle conditioning)

High alcohol beers/very complex grists might need a bit longer to mellow, but in my experience, I can go grain to glass in 3 weeks.

Frankly, I don't buy into the whole "time heals all wounds, your beer improves with age" stuff. I've never found that to be the case, at least with my beers.

Remember, be mindful of sanitation, quality recipe, pitch rate, yeast health, and temp control and you'll be able to go grain to glass in less than a month.

Congrats on your first beer

 

[gr8shandini]

I agree with Hugh. Doubly so for an APA or any beer where you really want the hops to shine. Something like a stout might take an extra week or two to mellow, but for the most part, the fresher, the better.

 

[unionrdr]

Darker beers like stouts can take a lot more than a couple extra weeks,more like months. My whiskely ale took 9 weeks,6 days to condition for the 2 week fridge time to get decent head & carbonation. My Burton ale took 6 weeks,2 weeks fridge time for the same reason.
A pale ale,after proper primary time to reach Fg & clean up & clear takes me some 4-5 weeks in the bottle,with one week fridge time to come into their own have good head,& longer lasting coarbonation. There's no set,hard & fast rule for exactly when they're ready. Beer is just like pit bbq,it's done when it's done. And time in primary to "clean up" is the time given for the yeast to clean up off flavors,& other by products of fermentation. Adequite time in the bottle further helps clean these things up.

 

[MrOrange]

There's no set,hard & fast rule for exactly when they're ready. Beer is just like pit bbq,it's done when it's done.

Couldn't have said it better

 

[Peevish]

Ah ok, so perhaps my patience has been misplaced with an APA then? gah!

So is worth just doing a short secondary now its in the carboy? Or is it just as well to get it aging in the bottles as soon as?

 

[gr8shandini]

Darker beers like stouts can take a lot more than a couple extra weeks,more like months. . . .

Beer is just like pit bbq,it's done when it's done. And time in primary to "clean up" is the time given for the yeast to clean up off flavors,& other by products of fermentation. Adequite time in the bottle further helps clean these things up.

Depends on the stout. If you're talking a 1.080 RIS, I agree. If you're just talking about a basic 1.045 Irish dry stout, it won't take that long.

I also agree with the barbecue analogy. Sometimes it takes 12 hours, sometimes 16, sometimes it's done in 8. But if someone tells you that it takes at least five days to make a decent barbecue, you can bet they're not doing something right. That's how I feel when I hear people talking about how the yeast need time to "clean up." As Hugh said, if you pitch the right amount of healthy yeast to well aerated wort at the proper temperature, there won't be much to "clean up" to begin with.

 

[unionrdr]

I skip secondary unless I'm racking onto something. I leave it in primary till it's clear,or just slightly misty. Then into bottles it goes. I'm at the point where 5-7 weeks gets my beers to the sweet spot. Just had to get enough results to come up with the averages I've been giving you guys.
The more I brew,the more I learn (best terminator voice).

 

[unionrdr]

Depends on the stout. If you're talking a 1.080 RIS, I agree. If you're just talking about a basic 1.045 Irish dry stout, it won't take that long.

I also agree with the barbecue analogy. Sometimes it takes 12 hours, sometimes 16, sometimes it's done in 8. But if someone tells you that it takes at least five days to make a decent barbecue, you can bet they're not doing something right. That's how I feel when I hear people talking about how the yeast need time to "clean up." As Hugh said, if you pitch the right amount of healthy yeast to well aerated wort at the proper temperature, there won't be much to "clean up" to begin with.

But that's my point exactly. Not too many new comers Have some bucks to put into accurate temp control,stir plates,etc. Let alone understand there use,science behind it,whatever. So your blanket statement isn't entirely accurate. Too many come into threads tossing those around. In other words,easier said than done.
You can use a swamp cooler,but have no control over the point where it gets too cold. Or the ice melts,& you can't be there to babysit. So then you're looking at DIY electronics. Not everyone has such skills,much less the money to pay for it.
And even if it doesn't need "clean up" time,it should always be given time to settle out well,which happens in the same time frame. I keep an eye on such things. So keep in mind that we're all at different stages of this game,in regard to experience & cash flow. Some of us just can't afford a lot. Or don't have room for more clutter. Especially with little kids & a crappy basement.
So blanket statements like that serve little purpose other than to make other accurate -for-the-situation ones look wrong. When in truth,they too are experience. It's sorta like callin the other guy a liar or a fool that doesn't know what their talking about.

 

[iron_city_ap]

One of the things I've always assumed time helped with was blending flavors and making for a more uniform batch. Just for example, if you dry hop, you want to add time so that the added hops can mix in throughly with the full batch. I made a black IPA once that was WAY too hoppy. I could MAYBE have 1 or 2 at a time. Horrible stuff. By the time I was down to the last few bottles it tasted amazing and I was sad to see it go.

 

[Yooper]

An APA brewed with proper technique, recipe, sanitation, temp control, and pitch rate should be ready to be consumed in 3 weeks (+carb time if you're bottle conditioning)

High alcohol beers/very complex grists might need a bit longer to mellow, but in my experience, I can go grain to glass in 3 weeks.

Frankly, I don't buy into the whole "time heals all wounds, your beer improves with age" stuff. I've never found that to be the case, at least with my beers.

Remember, be mindful of sanitation, quality recipe, pitch rate, yeast health, and temp control and you'll be able to go grain to glass in less than a month.

Congrats on your first beer

I agree completely. I package almost all of my beers at two weeks.

If you make the beer correctly, you don't need a long time for conditioning.

There are some exceptions- perhaps an oaked beer might be best in three months. Or a barley wine with 11% ABV might be best in 9 months.

But keeping a beer in the fermenter for more than a couple of weeks or so is certainly not necessary. Probably no harm will come to the beer, but there wouldn't be any advantage either.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,as I tried to get across to the other poster,glittering generalities (as we called them in poli-sci) carry about as much weight as air.
Especially when considering that temp control,yeast count,& the like are easier said than done. Especially with a beginner. Or ameture for that matter.
In the given context,it wasn't helping the op much with matters at hand. My statements as given were true & accurate for average circumstances & not ment as a pc attack on an individual as being "not very helpfull",etc. He didn't like it. Tuff. That's the way it is for average folks without the bucks to spend on things needed for nth degree brewing. Cool if you can. Eventually,maybe,but not helping with the situation at hand in the given curcomstances. That's all I was saying.

 

[gr8shandini]

Union,

I hope you didn't think I was calling you out or anything. I realize every brewer is in a different situation, however, I think brewing is more forgiving than it's made out to be a lot of the time. When I said "the right amount of yeast at the proper temperature," there's a pretty big margin of error on that. A packet of dry yeast and a swamp cooler or a cool corner of the basement will fit the bill almost every time. More equipment can make life easier, but it's by no means required to make great beer.

 

[unionrdr]

Ok. I was beginning to think this was another one of those troll pickin a fight routines we see on various forums from time to time. I just felt that it wasn't helping with what the deal is at the moment for the op's current situation. sometimes I get posters like that making negative comments to what I digress upon. Like I'm outta touch or something.
So,anyway,fair enough.
But I will say this. I just got part of my supplies from Miswest a little while ago. In that box were 2 packets of the larger 15g size of the cooper's ale yeast. I'm going to re-hydrate it in my usual fashion,& add it to my APA recipe & note how long it takes to get to FG,everything else being equal. since it's dry yeast,no starter,but try to match what one would give by weight of the yeast itself. In theory,that would be close to the peoper amount of yeast pitched. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully starting this weekend.
Then maybe we can talk about this correct pitch thing again. I'm understandibly curious...as applied to the average brewer's circumstances. By the way,thanks for the comment.

 

[gr8shandini]

No worries. I know posts on a forum can come across differently than one might intend and, after re-reading my post, I could see how it could be read as a little *******.

For what it's worth, I haven't heard very good things about Cooper's yeast, although I haven't used it myself. If you're up for experimenting, I'd try subbing it with S-05. I've had a few funky batches with Nottingham, but S-05 has worked like a champ for me every time.

 

[Yooper]

For what it's worth, I haven't heard very good things about Cooper's yeast, although I haven't used it myself. If you're up for experimenting, I'd try subbing it with S-05. I've had a few funky batches with Nottingham, but S-05 has worked like a champ for me every time.

The worst beers I've made have been with Cooper's yeast, and I gave up on it years ago. Munton's is just as bad.

But I have very good results with S04, S05, and nottingham.

 

[BrewGardenCA]

The higher the alcohol of the beer, the more time you let it "age" the more mellow it will get. You won't have that alcohol taste. But for what you're talking about, you don't need months, a couple weeks should be good. Time also aids in clarity, of course, and you know, the long tail of yeast finishing its job.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

One thing that does happen with your higher alcohol beers is that the alcohol taste mellows. I made a VERY strong barleywine last summer that is just now ready to drink. Even with good pitching rates, plenty of O2, cool ferm temps etc... it still needed a lot of time to mellow. The sample at bottling time was a little solventy.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,to start with,the 2 packets of cooper's ale yeast are the larger 15g size,unlike the little 7g packets in the can's false lid. I haven't looked at the julian dates on then yet,but since they just got here from Midwest,I figured they'd be fresher. Being highly focculant,they can make clear beer. I also figured that the larger amount of yeast would be closer to ideal.
We tried the 11g US-05 in her ale next to my ale with the cooper's 7g ale yeast re-hydrated. They started at about the same time,with the same kind of vigorous initial fermentation. Mine finished & cleared a hair faster. But the US-05 ws cleaner tasting at the same temp as compared to the cooper's,which has that fruity ester at that temp. Although it wasn't prominent at all. The ale had to warm up a tad to taste it.
So it's a pretty good yeast so far for average gravity ales. I'm thinking of maybe trying a different yeast for the next batch of Burton ale.

 

[cimirie]

Frankly, I don't buy into the whole "time heals all wounds, your beer improves with age" stuff. :

While I don't think time heals ALL wounds, I don't think the above statement is a good guide for a noob.

Particularly for those starting in recipe formulation, extra time mutes some of the unintended highs and allows "mistake" flavors to meld with the beer to varying degrees. That much is clear (at least to me and those I know who brew)

As others have stated, high abv beers will mellow considerably with time. When you brew with spices, time is especially important - cinnamon and clove are especially sharp unless given proper time to mellow and merge with other flavors.

But spices aside, I've found that British, Belgian, and German beers all benefit from extra aging (I'm talking a total of 6 weeks or so start to finish, so not terribly long). At least examples with more malt and less hops desired. Hops are far more pronounced early. West coast heavily-hopped styles don't benefit from extra aging (as stated above) and in fact probably hinders the beer.

YMMV, but I think encouraging new brewers to wait to see what develops in the flavor of their beers (especially if that's coupled with taste tests along the way to see the maturation process) is very solid advice. Especially if they don't like the taste initially.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

An APA brewed with proper technique, recipe, sanitation, temp control, and pitch rate should be ready to be consumed in 3 weeks (+carb time if you're bottle conditioning)

High alcohol beers/very complex grists might need a bit longer to mellow, but in my experience, I can go grain to glass in 3 weeks.

Frankly, I don't buy into the whole "time heals all wounds, your beer improves with age" stuff. I've never found that to be the case, at least with my beers.

Remember, be mindful of sanitation, quality recipe, pitch rate, yeast health, and temp control and you'll be able to go grain to glass in less than a month.

In this context, it is solid advice. I'd never discourage a newer brewer from tasting their beer as it matures. That said, I'd rather encourage a new brewer to mindful of the brewing process and understand why ferment temps, pitch rates, ect are important. If the items listed in my first post are followed, there are far fewer reasons to bulk age a beer to improve its flavor.

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks for that one cilirie. I was havin flashbacks to hang'em high...

 

[Peevish]

YMMV, but I think encouraging new brewers to wait to see what develops in the flavor of their beers (especially if that's coupled with taste tests along the way to see the maturation process) is very solid advice. Especially if they don't like the taste initially.

Yes this was what I was thinking - I was planning to leave my brew for a good amount of time to give my first batch the best chance to turn out great. That was the idea of doing secondary even though I realize its not totally necessary. That's what surprised me when I tasted it - it already tasted good! So I guess I will give it a little more time to sit in secondary, although I suspect I could have, and maybe should have, put it straight to bottle.
And I suspect that my problem is I've been drinking a lot of ipa's, so perhaps have unfairly based the taste of my apa against that and felt it was a little lacking in taste. But all in all, I'm very happy with my maiden brew so far!