Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[gotbags-10]

Bummer!!

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Great advice...wish I would have listened

Here's what I did - the arched part of the tube was several feet above the level of the wort, making it difficult for the escaping froth to "climb" uphill, thus forcing it to fall back into the carboy.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6921456&postcount=456

 

[mmacdon3]

Yeah I should have done something like that from the start. My plan was just to keep an eye on it this weekend and make changes if necessary but I had to leave town just as it was getting going...so wasn't too surprised to see that mess when I got back.

Got it cleaned up and a positive note is I didn't lose too much beer...will still be able to completely fill the 5 gallon carboy for secondary. My main concern is that the majority of that blow off was yeast...lots of it. I hope it doesn't affect my attenuation. It's currently at 70 degrees and slowly ramping to 80 over the course of this week. It's still bubbling but not nearly as active as the last couple days. Just hope I get close to the final gravity.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I hope it doesn't affect my attenuation. It's currently at 70 degrees and slowly ramping to 80 over the course of this week. It's still bubbling but not nearly as active as the last couple days. Just hope I get close to the final gravity.

If I recall from the lengthy discussion on this and related threads, many have lost yeast through their blow-off tubes, and still ended up with excellent beer. I also lost some yeast through a much smaller diameter blow-off tube, before I rigged it up with the higher diameter and much elevated tube - and it didn't affect the attenuation.

The other great option is CSI's solution of capturing the blow-off in a sterilized container and adding it back later when the fermentation slows down somewhat.

 

[Cutterman]

Glad I decided to read this post as I just purchased everything today for this recipe. Don't want to learn the hard way like mmacdon. Guess I'll head to the hardware store tomorrow to get larger tubing.

 

[Cutterman]

CSI: where did you buy your flask parts for your Krausen trap? I've searched the Internet up and down and can't find those parts. I would love to set a system up like that.

 

[billsteiner26]

CSI: where did you buy your flask parts for your Krausen trap? I've searched the Internet up and down and can't find those parts. I would love to set a system up like that.

I'm pretty sure it's custom built, but I'm definitely sure CSI will respond.

 

[Cutterman]

Quick question; I purchased 3 pounds of D-180 for recipe and one is different. Does anyone know what the difference is?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Quick question; I purchased 3 pounds of D-180 for recipe and one is different. Does anyone know what the difference is?

Packaging. That's all.

 

[jlangfo5]

I brewed my first batch of this beer today using the recipe on the first page of the thread.

I have been using a new kettle, and I only evaporate off .5 gallon per hour instead of the 1 gallon per hour I was hoping for, so I ended up with ~6.5 gallons at 1.080 using three lbs of the d-180 instead of 5.5 gallons at 1.090 using 2.5 lbs of the d-180.

Also had to move 3/4 oz of each the mid and late hop addition to the 60 minute addition so that I could hit the IBU target from the recipe.

I expect that all will be well though. Has anyone tried this brew at four months into aging?

 

[cyanmonkey]

I brewed my first batch of this beer today using the recipe on the first page of the thread.



I have been using a new kettle, and I only evaporate off .5 gallon per hour instead of the 1 gallon per hour I was hoping for, so I ended up with ~6.5 gallons at 1.080 using three lbs of the d-180 instead of 5.5 gallons at 1.090 using 2.5 lbs of the d-180.



Also had to move 3/4 oz of each the mid and late hop addition to the 60 minute addition so that I could hit the IBU target from the recipe.



I expect that all will be well though. Has anyone tried this brew at four months into aging?

What's your fermentation schedule look like?

It's good after a few weeks or so, but certainly improves with bulk aging.

 

[TWAL]

Has anyone tried this brew at four months into aging?

I can't comment on the clone recipe but as far a the real thing goes I've some that I bought at In De Vrede that after six months was still quite bitter,the same batch at the cafe was fire water !
Year and a half and it was beginning to mellow and tasted what one would expect.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Quick question; I purchased 3 pounds of D-180 for recipe and one is different. Does anyone know what the difference is?

Yes, cyanmonkey is correct. It's just a packaging improvement.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI: where did you buy your flask parts for your Krausen trap? I've searched the Internet up and down and can't find those parts. I would love to set a system up like that.

The pyrex flask parts that we used for the demonstration during a pitch build-up and krausen capture can be ordered from most chemistry supply houses. Most of these parts should also be available on eBay. The stainless micro-industrial capture that we use in the brewing room was assembled with tri-clamp parts and an Eagle tri-clamp stainless bottle. I think I remember MoreBeer! recently carrying something close to our assembly.

 

[endisnigh]

Hi,

I'm currently fermenting my second batch - the first turned out great (thanks everyone), finishing at 1.016.

The second one however, seems to be stuck.
I mashed at 64.4 and hit an OG of 1.093, I used a 3.5L starter (Wyeast #3787).

Fermentation started nicely, and hit 1.021 after 2.5 weeks... but then it stopped.

4 days later - still 1.021. I roused the yeast.

4 more days - nothing - still 1.021.

So I read back over this entire thread - and it seems the advice is to pitch another large starter of super health yeast - so I did that.

I knocked the temp back down to 24c, pitched a fresh 3.5L starter, stirred it in super gently and ...... there were a few bubbles.

But after a few more days, and ramping the temp up to 27C, there are no more bubbles, and the reading is 1.020.

Now, it tastes amazing - better than my first batch (filter your water!!), albeit a little sweet

Looking back, it's possible that I didn't oxygenate sufficiently (I use the shake-till-I-get-bored method), or possibly my yeast is tired (but it shouldn't be, this is only its second batch).

My options:

1. I don't think I can bottle this - that would be bad
2. I could dump in a bunch of champagne yeast - would this work? how much yeast would I need?
3. I could keg it, and enjoy a delicious but sweet Westie in a keg
3a. I could keg it and let it ride - would it ferment more over a long period in the keg?
4. I could let it ride a little longer in the fermentor
5. Another starter of #3787? Should I oxygenate at this stage??


Any other thoughts or advice welcome. I'm at a loss.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Hi,

I'm currently fermenting my second batch - the first turned out great (thanks everyone), finishing at 1.016.

The second one however, seems to be stuck.
I mashed at 64.4 and hit an OG of 1.093, I used a 3.5L starter (Wyeast #3787).

Fermentation started nicely, and hit 1.021 after 2.5 weeks... but then it stopped.

4 days later - still 1.021. I roused the yeast.

4 more days - nothing - still 1.021.

So I read back over this entire thread - and it seems the advice is to pitch another large starter of super health yeast - so I did that.

I knocked the temp back down to 24c, pitched a fresh 3.5L starter, stirred it in super gently and ...... there were a few bubbles.

But after a few more days, and ramping the temp up to 27C, there are no more bubbles, and the reading is 1.020.

Now, it tastes amazing - better than my first batch (filter your water!!), albeit a little sweet

Looking back, it's possible that I didn't oxygenate sufficiently (I use the shake-till-I-get-bored method), or possibly my yeast is tired (but it shouldn't be, this is only its second batch).

My options:

1. I don't think I can bottle this - that would be bad
2. I could dump in a bunch of champagne yeast - would this work? how much yeast would I need?
3. I could keg it, and enjoy a delicious but sweet Westie in a keg
3a. I could keg it and let it ride - would it ferment more over a long period in the keg?
4. I could let it ride a little longer in the fermentor
5. Another starter of #3787? Should I oxygenate at this stage??


Any other thoughts or advice welcome. I'm at a loss.

It happens periodically. The best hypothesis we have come up with is active-viable yeast with low vitality, (even in high counts from a well performed starter). A yeast can be active and healthy but fail the vitality test. I think the George Fix theory of "birth scarring" might be a possibility in these cases. The yeast reproduces initially but due to over-budding the yeast momentum fails at high ABV where it is most critical. Young yeast that has very little budding is found mainly in krausen. Interestingly enough, the BLAM report on Westvleteren 12 indicates that the monks at St. Sixtus use only fresh krausen harvested and transported the same day from Westmalle Abbey. Just a thought.

 

[orangehero]

It happens periodically. The best hypothesis we have come up with is active yeast with low viability, (even in high counts from a well performed starter). A yeast can be active and healthy but fail the viability test. I think the George Fix theory of "birth scarring" might be a possibility in these cases. The yeast reproduces initially but due to over-budding the yeast momentum fails at high ABV where it is most critical. Young yeast that has very little budding and is found mainly in krausen. Interestingly enough, the BLAM report on Westvleteren 12 indicates that the monks at St. Sixtus use only fresh krausen harvested ad transported the same day from Westmalle Abbey. Just a thought.

Are you confusing viability with vitality? Viability is the proportion of living cells.

 

[Kee]

Hi,

I'm currently fermenting my second batch - the first turned out great (thanks everyone), finishing at 1.016.

The second one however, seems to be stuck.
I mashed at 64.4 and hit an OG of 1.093, I used a 3.5L starter (Wyeast #3787).

Fermentation started nicely, and hit 1.021 after 2.5 weeks... but then it stopped.

4 days later - still 1.021. I roused the yeast.

4 more days - nothing - still 1.021.

So I read back over this entire thread - and it seems the advice is to pitch another large starter of super health yeast - so I did that.

I knocked the temp back down to 24c, pitched a fresh 3.5L starter, stirred it in super gently and ...... there were a few bubbles.

But after a few more days, and ramping the temp up to 27C, there are no more bubbles, and the reading is 1.020.

Now, it tastes amazing - better than my first batch (filter your water!!), albeit a little sweet

Looking back, it's possible that I didn't oxygenate sufficiently (I use the shake-till-I-get-bored method), or possibly my yeast is tired (but it shouldn't be, this is only its second batch).

My options:

1. I don't think I can bottle this - that would be bad
2. I could dump in a bunch of champagne yeast - would this work? how much yeast would I need?
3. I could keg it, and enjoy a delicious but sweet Westie in a keg
3a. I could keg it and let it ride - would it ferment more over a long period in the keg?
4. I could let it ride a little longer in the fermentor
5. Another starter of #3787? Should I oxygenate at this stage??


Any other thoughts or advice welcome. I'm at a loss.

The champagne yeast are better at simple sugars than maltose, so that probably won't work. Whether or not to try again is a judgment call. I kegged a batch that was almost 1.020, way too sweet for me, but my wife loved it.

Others have said that the gravity may gradually creep down after appearing stuck but that has not been my experience. If the beer is clear it is probably done.

 

[GregKelley]

Hi,

I'm currently fermenting my second batch - the first turned out great (thanks everyone), finishing at 1.016.

The second one however, seems to be stuck.
I mashed at 64.4 and hit an OG of 1.093, I used a 3.5L starter (Wyeast #3787).

Fermentation started nicely, and hit 1.021 after 2.5 weeks... but then it stopped.

4 days later - still 1.021. I roused the yeast.

4 more days - nothing - still 1.021.

So I read back over this entire thread - and it seems the advice is to pitch another large starter of super health yeast - so I did that.

I knocked the temp back down to 24c, pitched a fresh 3.5L starter, stirred it in super gently and ...... there were a few bubbles.

But after a few more days, and ramping the temp up to 27C, there are no more bubbles, and the reading is 1.020.

Now, it tastes amazing - better than my first batch (filter your water!!), albeit a little sweet

Looking back, it's possible that I didn't oxygenate sufficiently (I use the shake-till-I-get-bored method), or possibly my yeast is tired (but it shouldn't be, this is only its second batch).

My options:

1. I don't think I can bottle this - that would be bad
2. I could dump in a bunch of champagne yeast - would this work? how much yeast would I need?
3. I could keg it, and enjoy a delicious but sweet Westie in a keg
3a. I could keg it and let it ride - would it ferment more over a long period in the keg?
4. I could let it ride a little longer in the fermentor
5. Another starter of #3787? Should I oxygenate at this stage??


Any other thoughts or advice welcome. I'm at a loss.

If you were to pitch more yeast, I'd look at WLP099, the high gravity yeast. It will eat anything. It may, however, dry your beer out a little too much.

 

[beergolf]

Very nice.. I scaled back the recipe to an OG of 1.078, but basically the same.

Just had one at 4 months in the bottle and it is great. I will definitely age this one and it will be an awesome brew. I can see this being one of the best Belgians I have brewed, and I have brewed more than a few.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

very nice.. I scaled back the recipe to an og of 1.078, but basically the same.

Just had one at 4 months in the bottle and it is great. I will definitely age this one and it will be an awesome brew. I can see this being one of the best belgians i have brewed, and i have brewed more than a few.

+1

 

[Mofoa]

Made the recipe using a new brewing system...hit an OG of 1.072...decided to dump the other half of the candi syyrup to try and aise the OG in my haste.

I also under pitched by only using a 1 liter started. After realizing this the next day I grabbed another vial...this time using a Belgian ale yeast as I previously purchased the last Abbey yeast.

After one week per the fermentation schedule, I am at 1.014. Letting go for another week.

Tasted sample. It's Grrrrrrreat!!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Quick .02 on using more vigorous strains for this clone. You can blast the FG down by using them but the ester/phenol profiles will be different. That's speaking from a clone only viewpoint. That being sad we've used Wy3711 to drive this ale down to 1.010. It's much more phenolic and dry this way...like a high ABV dark saison.

 

[brew_darrymore]

Does anyone know what is a good water profile for this recipe or for a BDSA in general?

What water adjustments do you make, if any?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Does anyone know what is a good water profile for this recipe or for a BDSA in general?

What water adjustments do you make, if any?

The published municipal water profile for Vleteren has been cited, (and we've tried it), but the monastery at St. Sixtus treats their brewing water, (unpublished). The Chimay or Westmalle water profiles work very well for this clone. Here's a link:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/common_belgian_water_profiles_rev_1.2.pdf

 

[brew_darrymore]

Thanks, CSI!

Santa brought me a pH meter this Christmas and I've been doing some reading and experimenting with water chemistry. I am about to brew this recipe for a third time and want to play around with the water profile.

 

[FredZ]

Hey guys, I brewed the New World and got an OG of 1.094. She's now at 1.020 after 7 days. Now sitting at 67 degrees, do I rack and hope that promotes the yeast to finish in the teens or wait it out another couple days without racking?

 

[Kee]

Hey guys, I brewed the New World and got an OG of 1.094. She's now at 1.020 after 7 days. Now sitting at 67 degrees, do I rack and hope that promotes the yeast to finish in the teens or wait it out another couple days without racking?

Get the temperature up in the high 70's if you can, for the best chance to reach FG before racking to secondary.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Although I made the Westy on September 9, 2014, I didn't bottle it until December 19, 2014. Thus it has now bottle aged for over a year. I have tried this beer several times since bottling, but just tried it again yesterday. It has definitely improved significantly over that time - very smooth now with many complexities in taste that were not there before. I have heard that it continues to improve and is best after having aged 2-5 years. One thing I noticed is that temperature is critical. I started tasting it when it was still quite cold, but it improved immensely as it warmed up. I estimate that the best temperature for drinking it is about 50-55 F.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Although I made the Westy on September 9, 2014, I didn't bottle it until December 19, 2014. Thus it has now bottle aged for over a year. I have tried this beer several times since bottling, but just tried it again yesterday. It has definitely improved significantly over that time - very smooth now with many complexities in taste that were not there before. I have heard that it continues to improve and is best after having aged 2-5 years. One thing I noticed is that temperature is critical. I started tasting it when it was still quite cold, but it improved immensely as it warmed up. I estimate that the best temperature for drinking it is about 50-55 F.

Yes, I agree. 2 years in bottle aging makes this ale something very special. It seems to get better over a very long aging period. I'm saving the last bottle of a five year old brew (one of our first). At four years old last year it was beyond amazing and there was still a hint of Brewers Gold.