WB-06 Ferment Temp for more Banana Flavors (Hefeweizen)

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El Nino

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Title says it all, does anybody have experience with this yeast?

I only tried making a hefe once before, and was disappointed with the results. It wasn't a bad beer, but it was missing the banana flavor that the hefe's I tried in Germany had.

I did read elsewhere that you have to ferment this one at 78F to get those flavors, is that true? I'm not even sure if my closet gets that hot lol. Anyway I'm going to try another crack at a hefeweizen.

I fermented at 68-70 last time with a liquid yeast (Wyeast 3068).
 
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Ninoid

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I use this yeast two times on 22 - 25'C.
No banana flavor. Beer flavor is quite similar to white wine. Very refreshing, slightly acidic. I liked it. Within three weeks of brew it was already ready to drink.
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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Shucks. I was hoping this time around and with a different yeast strain I could get that banana flavor. That's what was missing when I tried my own hefe compared to the one i had in germany.

Anyway I'll try the higher temp, I'm thinking in either case if I wanted banana flavors, 68 might have been too low.
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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If it's not too late for your next batch, I would try a different yeast. People have had mixed results (putting it kindly) with WB-06.

I recommend this resource for hefeweizen:
http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

Can't I already ordered a pack of 5 so I gotta use them haha.

I do notice on some research with that yeast though, pitching temp seems to matter a LOT. I brew mostly IPA's and don't really care if I'm pitching anywhere from 55 to 70, and get consistent results.

with WB-06 I've seen two people who fermented in the low 70's, one saying it was a clove bomb (pitched at 64), and another saying it was a banana bomb (pitched at 86). So I'm guessing my pitch target should be somewhere in the middle of that, around 74?
 

thehaze

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WB-06 is not a true/proper hefe yeast. Genetically, it's close to the Duvel yeast family, so it's more belgiany, with lots of clove and a very low post-fermentation pH, which adds to the general ( slightly unpleasent ) tartness of the beer.

Try pitching at 74F and let it rise from there. Being diastaticus, WB-06 will quickly ferment and leave you with a drier beer, as its apparent attenuation is somewhere around 85%.

Danstar Munich Classic ( NOT the Munich Wheat ) is said to be the Weihenstephan dry yeast and from experience, it's the best dry hefe yeast and one of the most expressive dry yeast in general. Open fermentation and around 72-74F will do the trick with this yeast.
 

Soulshine2

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Title says it all, does anybody have experience with this yeast?

I only tried making a hefe once before, and was disappointed with the results. It wasn't a bad beer, but it was missing the banana flavor that the hefe's I tried in Germany had.

I did read elsewhere that you have to ferment this one at 78F to get those flavors, is that true? I'm not even sure if my closet gets that hot lol. Anyway I'm going to try another crack at a hefeweizen.

I fermented at 68-70 last time with a liquid yeast (Wyeast 3068).
was it a ready made AG kit ,extract, or did you build it .
I've made 2 AG hefs so far for my wife . first one was from ChicagoBrewerks,it was good. the last one from Northern Brewer (Bavarian Hef) and that one was outstanding. I could check my notes later and tell you what I did,yeast /temp...pretty sure it was using WB-06. It had a very nice balance of clove and banana . In fact,I just got another NB Bav Hef kit exactly the same last week. I got a Dunkelweizen same time as well , same yeast. This will be a first repeat-brew for me , so when I get time I'll be brewing it and I'll watch this post and maybe see if I get the same results this time.
 

Amadeo38

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Wyeast recommends decreasing pitch rate in addition to increasing the ferm temp to increase banana eaters. Below is what Wyeast says about YEAST STRAIN: 3068 | Weihenstephan Weizen[emoji769] :

The classic and most popular German wheat beer strain used worldwide. This yeast strain produces a beautiful and delicate balance of banana esters and clove phenolics. **The balance can be manipulated towards ester production through increasing the fermentation temperature, increasing the wort density, and decreasing the pitch rate. Over pitching can result in a near complete loss of banana character.** Decreasing the ester level will allow a higher clove character to be perceived. Sulfur is commonly produced, but will dissipate with conditioning. This strain is very powdery and will remain in suspension for an extended amount of time following attenuation. This is true top cropping yeast and requires fermenter headspace of 33%.”

Also, from a May/June 2010 article in Zymurgy: "Brewing a Wheat Beer with Intensive Banana Aroma", by Michael Eder. The basics are to use an unusual decoction with a "5:1 water to grist ratio by weight", which apparently leads to a higher mash pH (~6.0), and a step at 104F (40C). These lead to increased maltase activity which provides the yeast with more precursors for banana ester production.
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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was it a ready made AG kit ,extract, or did you build it .
I've made 2 AG hefs so far for my wife . first one was from ChicagoBrewerks,it was good. the last one from Northern Brewer (Bavarian Hef) and that one was outstanding. I could check my notes later and tell you what I did,yeast /temp...pretty sure it was using WB-06. It had a very nice balance of clove and banana . In fact,I just got another NB Bav Hef kit exactly the same last week. I got a Dunkelweizen same time as well , same yeast. This will be a first repeat-brew for me , so when I get time I'll be brewing it and I'll watch this post and maybe see if I get the same results this time.

I built it following a recipe. I didn't think the beer was bad, it was just missing the banana flavor, which is what I wanted. Trying to replicate the hefes I had in Germany, and those had a good balance of banana and clove. The one I made just had clove. Let me know how that brew turns out :)

Wyeast recommends decreasing pitch rate in addition to increasing the ferm temp to increase banana eaters. Below is what Wyeast says about YEAST STRAIN: 3068 | Weihenstephan Weizen[emoji769] :

So if I'm doing a 2.5 gallon batch, I shouldn't throw maybe 1/3 of the packet in there? I typically use us-05 and brew mainly IPA's, and have just been throwing the entire packet in. I figure that's overkill since one packet is good for a 5g batch, but it's just a habit I got into, it's made good pale ales / IPA's, but for this hefe I'm thinking I should try that. I usually wasn't in the business of stressing the yeast, but with this style it needs a little bit of it?
 

Ninoid

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Has anyone tried that yeast at much higher fermentation temperatures like 32 'C? At these temperatures the production of esters would be much higher, and thus the banana flavor.
 

ebbelwoi

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Has anyone tried that yeast at much higher fermentation temperatures like 32 'C? At these temperatures the production of esters would be much higher, and thus the banana flavor.
The fusel alcohols would likely mask the banana.
I've read that dextrose/glucose/corn sugar can help increase esters.
 
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El Nino

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Update, bottled this bad boy today after 8 days. OG was at 1.50 and stabilized at 1.008 for a couple days. Expected the fermentation to last longer since I underpitched the yeast, but it still took off like a rocket, machine gun bubble activity within 24 hours lol. It slowed down considerably on day 3 and on.

Fermented it at 72 degrees. Gravity sample is promising, I taste a good balance of clove and banana, but neither is overpowering (aka a bomb), exactly what I wanted. Should be a really drinkable session beer like the kind I had in Germany :) Decided to bottle it now and not my usual 2 weeks since I've heard waiting too long can make you lose the banana. FG is stable so why not try it? Will be back to update the final results in 5-6 days
 

Gnomebrewer

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WB-06 is not a true/proper hefe yeast. Genetically, it's close to the Duvel yeast family

Interesting. Do you have a reference for that? I'm not disagreeing with you (having used WB06 I'm very confident it's not a German Hefe yeast) but would like to read a bit more about it's origins if possible. I also really like Duvel!
 

thehaze

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Interesting. Do you have a reference for that? I'm not disagreeing with you (having used WB06 I'm very confident it's not a German Hefe yeast) but would like to read a bit more about it's origins if possible. I also really like Duvel!

You can read and find more information on yeast here: http://beer.suregork.com/
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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Tested a bottle yesterday and I was blown away with how much it was carbed (had to do a careful pour or it was mostly foam in the cup). I threw the rest of the beers in the fridge incase I bottled them prematurely because they were even more carbed than my IPA's I conditioned for 7 days lol. Anyway I'm terrified of possible bottle bombs so I went ahead and put them in the fridge. Might be fine though, in my experience, lower ABV beers tended to carb faster and more than my 7-8% IPA's. Room temp here in Hawaii is around 82 degrees F now, so my beers are usually fully carbed by 5 days normally. Though this is the quickest grain to glass beer (through bottle conditioning) I've ever gotten to date at 11 days lol.

I thought the beer turned out great, though not quite what I had in Germany. It had that slight banana and clove flavor, but didn't taste as clean as the German hefe's I've had. For the most part was good, but occasionally I would taste a yeasty kind of flavor. I made the mistake of pouring in the entire bottle sediment and all, figured if you're drinking the yeast in a hefe anyway, why not? Though if you drink globs of the yeast you'll taste yeast. Not a bad taste, but does affect how 'clean' the flavor is, so that part is probably my own fault :D

I'll get a 2nd opinion, and maybe 3rd opinion tonight or tomorrow after it's had some actual time to chill ;)
 
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Ninoid

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Tested a bottle yesterday and I was blown away with how much it was carbed (had to do a careful pour or it was mostly foam in the cup). I threw the rest of the beers in the fridge incase I bottled them prematurely because they were even more carbed than my IPA's I conditioned for 7 days lol. Anyway I'm terrified of possible bottle bombs so I went ahead and put them in the fridge. Might be fine though, in my experience, lower ABV beers tended to carb faster and more than my 7-8% IPA's. Room temp here in Hawaii is around 82 degrees F now, so my beers are usually fully carbed by 5 days normally. Though this is the quickest grain to glass beer (through bottle conditioning) I've ever gotten to date at 11 days lol.

I thought the beer turned out great, though not quite what I had in Germany. It had that slight banana and clove flavor, but didn't taste as clean as the German hefe's I've had. For the most part was good, but occasionally I would taste a yeasty kind of flavor. I made the mistake of pouring in the entire bottle sediment and all, figured if you're drinking the yeast in a hefe anyway, why not? Though if you drink globs of the yeast you'll taste yeast. Not a bad taste, but does affect how 'clean' the flavor is, so that part is probably my own fault :D

I'll get a 2nd opinion, and maybe 3rd opinion tonight or tomorrow after it's had some actual time to chill ;)

Chill it in fridge three days and will be fine.
 

BruceH

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Tested a bottle yesterday and I was blown away with how much it was carbed (had to do a careful pour or it was mostly foam in the cup). I threw the rest of the beers in the fridge incase I bottled them prematurely because they were even more carbed than my IPA's I conditioned for 7 days lol. Anyway I'm terrified of possible bottle bombs so I went ahead and put them in the fridge. Might be fine though, in my experience, lower ABV beers tended to carb faster and more than my 7-8% IPA's. Room temp here in Hawaii is around 82 degrees F now, so my beers are usually fully carbed by 5 days normally. Though this is the quickest grain to glass beer (through bottle conditioning) I've ever gotten to date at 11 days lol.

I thought the beer turned out great, though not quite what I had in Germany. It had that slight banana and clove flavor, but didn't taste as clean as the German hefe's I've had. For the most part was good, but occasionally I would taste a yeasty kind of flavor. I made the mistake of pouring in the entire bottle sediment and all, figured if you're drinking the yeast in a hefe anyway, why not? Though if you drink globs of the yeast you'll taste yeast. Not a bad taste, but does affect how 'clean' the flavor is, so that part is probably my own fault :D

I'll get a 2nd opinion, and maybe 3rd opinion tonight or tomorrow after it's had some actual time to chill ;)

I just poured the first Weizen beer that I brewed. Used WB-06, wheat, rye, and 2 row malt. Did a step mash. WB-06 works fast, I taste all of the Weizen flavors, mostly banana and citrus.

If I do another Weizen I'll probably use this yeast. However, I'm resigned to the fact that it's not going to be as good as a fresh beer in Germany. IMO being able to live in Deutchland and drink the beer at it's prime is something that is very hard to replicate. In fact I like to convince my wife to vacation in Germany just for the food and beer. That and I get to speak German. Usually I'm answered in English... But still, I try.
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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Chill it in fridge three days and will be fine.

I couldn't wait. Tried one now and the chilling / "homebrew pour" made all the difference. It's crisp and clean tasting with a perfect balance of clove and banana. I can't wait to do a 5 gallon batch of this. I will say that this does now resemble the beer i had in Germany (although I have to admit, not 100%, but 95%.. Close enough and better than the crap they sell at the store), quite proud of it :D cheers!

66430133_640781356440069_8580794124205031424_n.jpg
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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I just poured the first Weizen beer that I brewed. Used WB-06, wheat, rye, and 2 row malt. Did a step mash. WB-06 works fast, I taste all of the Weizen flavors, mostly banana and citrus.

If I do another Weizen I'll probably use this yeast. However, I'm resigned to the fact that it's not going to be as good as a fresh beer in Germany. IMO being able to live in Deutchland and drink the beer at it's prime is something that is very hard to replicate. In fact I like to convince my wife to vacation in Germany just for the food and beer. That and I get to speak German. Usually I'm answered in English... But still, I try.

Yeah it definitely works fast. I was surprised how quick the fermentation took off (even though I'm sure I underpitched, one teaspoon in a 2.5g batch)

And yeah the beer in Germany was something else. But I'll be on a mission to replicate it lol. But for a 2nd batch this one turned out great. Plan to make many more.
 

Yirg

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Danstar Munich Classic ( NOT the Munich Wheat ) is said to be the Weihenstephan dry yeast and from experience, it's the best dry hefe yeast and one of the most expressive dry yeast in general. Open fermentation and around 72-74F will do the trick with this yeast.

Any Hefe recipe to share that uses this yeast?

Thanks!
 

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Yeah it definitely works fast. I was surprised how quick the fermentation took off (even though I'm sure I underpitched, one teaspoon in a 2.5g batch)

And yeah the beer in Germany was something else. But I'll be on a mission to replicate it lol. But for a 2nd batch this one turned out great. Plan to make many more.
That might also be due to the yeast, try something German, like the Munich classic from lallemand or one of the many liquid strains that I don't know about.
 

Saunassa

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If you like dry yeast i tend to use it due to distance from store and easier to keep, i.e. Little hands in fridge, try the Munich Classic and ferment in the high 60s. Works like a champ and gets the flavors. 62 for more clove or 70 for more banana.
 

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I'm reading this thread with a lot interest as I'm trying wb06 for the first time. I pitched this yeast 3 days ago into 73 degree wort and it rose to 80.
 
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El Nino

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I'm reading this thread with a lot interest as I'm trying wb06 for the first time. I pitched this yeast 3 days ago into 73 degree wort and it rose to 80.

How'd that turn out?

Did another batch, and decided to try fermenting at 76 degrees for giggles. I read online that a brewery uses this yeast and ferments it at 78 and pushes it around 80. Didn't feel brave enough to do it that high, but I'll see what the difference is between fermenting at 71 and 76.

This yeast I will have to say, works pretty damn fast. Despite another underpitch, the krausen formed hours later and was bubbling like crazy. Day 2.5 of active fermentation and krausen is already dropping. I'm sure a part of that is the slightly warmer temps. I'm gonna let this ride for 13 days instead of bottling on day 8, even though that batch still turned out good. Just want to play around with things a bit to see if anything changes.
 

Soulshine2

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Has anyone tried that yeast at much higher fermentation temperatures like 32 'C? At these temperatures the production of esters would be much higher, and thus the banana flavor.
right now , my hef as I mentioned above is in the beginnings of its fermentation since late last week and the ambient temperature is roughly 74*F /23.3*C.
 

Soulshine2

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How'd that turn out?

Did another batch, and decided to try fermenting at 76 degrees for giggles. I read online that a brewery uses this yeast and ferments it at 78 and pushes it around 80. Didn't feel brave enough to do it that high, but I'll see what the difference is between fermenting at 71 and 76.

This yeast I will have to say, works pretty damn fast. Despite another underpitch, the krausen formed hours later and was bubbling like crazy. Day 2.5 of active fermentation and krausen is already dropping. I'm sure a part of that is the slightly warmer temps. I'm gonna let this ride for 13 days instead of bottling on day 8, even though that batch still turned out good. Just want to play around with things a bit to see if anything changes.
Yep, I believe it. Mine already went through its kraeusen in about the same time frame, not much action going in there . I'll give it another week....roughly an 11 day fermentation period, seems about average .
 

Soulshine2

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Your carb issue is because WB-06 is Diastaticus and most likely hadn‘t finished fermenting by the time you bottled it.

As has been stated WB-06 is not a Hefe yeast. The only good solution for dry yeast in a Hefe is the Danstar Munich classic.
as much as Id like to not argue ...why then would NB send WB-06 with a Hef kit if its not a hef yeast. I've used it for both previous hefs and theyve turned out exactly hef-ish. WB if Im not mistaken stands for its use ,"Wheat Beer" .
 

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I wouldn’t put much faith in Northern Brewer when it comes to yeast to be honest.

It’s diastaticus. There’s no other true Hefe yeast that is, liquid or dry. You don’t want a Hefe to finish at 1.006 or lower which they will if you use this yeast.

It might smell like bananas but that doesn’t make it a Hefe yeast.

Genetically it isn’t even close to any of the other Hefe yeasts as well. It’s closest yeast relative is Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale. If NB sent you a Hefe kit with Belgian Strong Ale yeast would you think that’s weird?
 
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El Nino

El Nino

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I wouldn’t put much faith in Northern Brewer when it comes to yeast to be honest.

It’s diastaticus. There’s no other true Hefe yeast that is, liquid or dry. You don’t want a Hefe to finish at 1.006 or lower which they will if you use this yeast.

It might smell like bananas but that doesn’t make it a Hefe yeast.

Genetically it isn’t even close to any of the other Hefe yeasts as well. It’s closest yeast relative is Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale. If NB sent you a Hefe kit with Belgian Strong Ale yeast would you think that’s weird?

I'll try other yeasts at some point, but I have 3 packets of this stuff still to use. Might as well try and make good beer with it while I've got it lol.
 

Soulshine2

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I wouldn’t put much faith in Northern Brewer when it comes to yeast to be honest.

It’s diastaticus. There’s no other true Hefe yeast that is, liquid or dry. You don’t want a Hefe to finish at 1.006 or lower which they will if you use this yeast.

It might smell like bananas but that doesn’t make it a Hefe yeast.

Genetically it isn’t even close to any of the other Hefe yeasts as well. It’s closest yeast relative is Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale. If NB sent you a Hefe kit with Belgian Strong Ale yeast would you think that’s weird?
Ive had commercially brewed hefs. Hofbrau ,Weihenstephaner, Tucher, Paulaner, even Two Brothers. Mine was right there with them for style. Finished at 1.008 I'm not just talking aroma, I'm talking taste and looks too,correct color, hazy ,whipped cream head. I have no idea what they use .I'm assuming a derivative of or exactly the Weihenstephan yeast. I would hope if/when I buy a grain kit from a reputable vendor they would include a yeast that was to style.
 

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Ist ist called Hefeweizen or in short, Hefe or Weizen and none of the German strains are diastatic, so 06 is clearly not a great choice for a German wheat beer.

Multiple people have reported gusher issues after some time in the bottle, a side effect of the diastetic nature of the yeast.

If you want German dry what beer yeast, use Lallemand Munich classic.

Otherwise, you'll be making a Belgian beer, which of course, can still be a nice beer and can share lots of the esters that German Hefes have to offer, but isn't the German thing you seem to be after.
 

Soulshine2

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Ist ist called Hefeweizen or in short, Hefe or Weizen and none of the German strains are diastatic, so 06 is clearly not a great choice for a German wheat beer.

Multiple people have reported gusher issues after some time in the bottle, a side effect of the diastetic nature of the yeast.

If you want German dry what beer yeast, use Lallemand Munich classic.

Otherwise, you'll be making a Belgian beer, which of course, can still be a nice beer and can share lots of the esters that German Hefes have to offer, but isn't the German thing you seem to be after.
Yes, Hefe mean yeast ,Weizen means wheat. Thus, A yeasty wheat beer.
Mine is actually marketed as a Bavarian Hef. so , again. This is what they sent with it as dry yeast choice so I use it, I get results I like. In future hefs ,I may try the Lallemand Munich Classic and try to see the difference.
 

Miraculix

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Mine is actually marketed as a Bavarian Hef. so , again. This is what they sent with it as dry yeast choice so I use it, I get results I like. In future hefs ,I may try the Lallemand Munich Classic and try to see the difference.
Even fermentis themselve call this yeast diastatic, so you've fallen victim to mislabeling.
 

Northern_Brewer

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I wouldn’t put much faith in Northern Brewer when it comes to yeast to be honest.

Cough! :)

as much as Id like to not argue ...why then would NB send WB-06 with a Hef kit if its not a hef yeast. I've used it for both previous hefs and theyve turned out exactly hef-ish. WB if Im not mistaken stands for its use ,"Wheat Beer" .

We now know that it's not a true hefe yeast, but a weird member of the saison family. Having said that, it does have enough hefe characteristics that it was historically thought to be a hefe yeast, even though the attenuation was all wrong. Which is why Fermentis sold it as a "WB" yeast, although those with more experience of genuine hefe beers thought there was something not quite right about it.

Now we know better. As to why Budweiser's homebrew division (no relation!) sold it to you rather than Munich Classic - that was because it was close enough and the Fermentis yeast might cost them 5 cents less than Lallemand. Maybe more, but 5c would be enough to swing it for them.
 

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WB-06 has absolutely nothing to do in a hefe in my opinion, but it makes a pretty decent wit if you start it at 24C and keep it there for a few days.
 
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