water salt and acid question

[itsratso]

2 questions:
1. when adding salts from the sticky thread method, if it takes 8 gallons of water to make my 5 gallon batch of beer, do i add the 5 gallon amount of salt or should i bump it up to 8 gallon? (i.e. 1 tsp calcium chloride for 5 gal or 1.6 tsp for 8 gallon?).
2. my ph keeps coming in low when using 2% acid malt. i cut back from 2% to 1.5 % and my batch currently cooking is still at 5.0 ph. i have followed the correct procedure per the thread. i use RO water. not that i think this will make a diff, but should i be subtracting 2% from my base grain when adding 2% acid malt? i plan on just cutting back 1/2% until i hit the correct ph's but would like to know why this isn't working.

 

[mchrispen]

1) Truly a matter of personal preference. I would add it to all - given you are having issues with low pH. Sounds like you don't have a lot of alkalinity. If that is the case, then you also need to pull back on the acid malt as well. Next time, I would try to brew without aciduated and see where your pH would fall - or do a test mash with a small amount of the grist (no acid malt) and take a reading - then you can adjust up or down as needed in the real mash. Stick with the 1 tbs to start and adjust those volumes based on taste preference. The additions to thel "whole" volume of water will reduce the actual acid concentration in the mash.

2) Of course, cut back on the acid malt, but don't hesitate to use small amounts of baking soda or pickling lime in the mash to bring the pH up slightly. Use baking soda sparingly as it does add sodium and can have a flavor impact. Both soda and lime are effective. I prefer lime. I would dissolve the lime in a little water and add a bit at a time till the pH rose to a comfortable level - say 5.2. You would do multiple readings with your meter to confirm.

 

[duboman]

You might also try using lactic acid instead of acidulated malt. The problem with acidualted malt is that it is difficult to actually determine exactly how much acid is in it depending on the maltster. If you use lactic acid it can be measured out precisely and usually requires very little, like 1-2ml for a 5 gallon batch

 

[ajdelange]

1. when adding salts from the sticky thread method, if it takes 8 gallons of water to make my 5 gallon batch of beer, do i add the 5 gallon amount of salt or should i bump it up to 8 gallon? (i.e. 1 tsp calcium chloride for 5 gal or 1.6 tsp for 8 gallon?).

The recommendations are per 5 gal so if you are preparing 8 gal scale it up.

2. my ph keeps coming in low when using 2% acid malt. i cut back from 2% to 1.5 % and my batch currently cooking is still at 5.0 ph. i have followed the correct procedure per the thread.

If you are reducing the acid malt and the pH is not increasing something is fishy. First question would be as to how you are measuring pH? Second would be when and third would be what kind of beer are you brewing? The only way reducing sauermalz would not result in a increase in pH is if you have a lot of highly colored or roast malt in the grist to the extent that their acids are overwhelming the sauermalz acid. This is unlikely/

i use RO water. not that i think this will make a diff, but should i be subtracting 2% from my base grain when adding 2% acid malt? i plan on just cutting back 1/2% until i hit the correct ph's but would like to know why this isn't working.

So would I. No, subracting to 2 % from the overall grain bill shouldn't make an appreciable difference.

The reason for the when question is that I have found that pH drops to alarmingly low levels when sauermalz is used but that it rises rapidly. It should be in a comfortable range within 10 minutes and pretty much leveled by 15-20.

 

[mchrispen]

Confused, I thought the primer recommendation was for a 5 gallon batch, including the sparge volume? Just want to make sure.

I read the question as, I use 8 gallons to make my 5 gallon batch...

 

[mchrispen]

Well, after rereading the Sticky, I was wrong. It clearly says "each 5 gallons to be treated" - Apologies if I caused confusion.

Even worse, it was Yooper's post! You should always listen carefully to the mistress.

 

[mabrungard]

You might also try using lactic acid instead of acidulated malt. The problem with acidualted malt is that it is difficult to actually determine exactly how much acid is in it depending on the maltster. If you use lactic acid it can be measured out precisely and usually requires very little, like 1-2ml for a 5 gallon batch

It's interesting that you brought this up since a Bru'n Water client that is a pro-brewer and BJCP Grand Master just told me that a Rep from one of the nationwide malt distributors said that the Best Maltz version of acid malt is 1.5 to 2 times more acidic than Weyermann's version. However my client said that the net result was only a difference of 0.1 pH units in his mashes. I'm assuming that he means that for the same amount of acid malt, the overall mash pH differed by a tenth. A tenth isn't really a big deal, but this still introduces that "question mark" of consistency. I do prefer liquid acids for that reason.

 

[duboman]

It's interesting that you brought this up since a Bru'n Water client that is a pro-brewer and BJCP Grand Master just told me that a Rep from one of the nationwide malt distributors said that the Best Maltz version of acid malt is 1.5 to 2 times more acidic than Weyermann's version. However my client said that the net result was only a difference of 0.1 pH units in his mashes. I'm assuming that he means that for the same amount of acid malt, the overall mash pH differed by a tenth. A tenth isn't really a big deal, but this still introduces that "question mark" of consistency. I do prefer liquid acids for that reason.

Martin,

I actually mentioned this because of something you had written or conversed about somewhere that I had read.

I was experiencing inconsistencies in my mash pH when I was using acidulated malt in recipes as my supplier was getting malt from different maltsters/suppliers. It was becoming difficult to brew consistently so I switched to using lactic along with my continued use of Bru'n Water and I was able to bring back my ability to maintain consistent mash pH again!

 

[itsratso]

sorry forgot to browse the forum yesterday. aj, i measured the ph throughout the entire mash - it only rose to 5.1 at the end of the mash. my meter was calibrated, i cooled the samples to room temp, i think i hit all the basics of taking a reading. and this is like the third brew in a row that i got too low a ph. it was a pale ale. cutting back to 1.5% saur did help some - i was only a little low this time, 5.1. i was around 4.9 at 2%, again with RO water.

 

[ajdelange]

Fresh buffers? Meter stability check (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/) OK? Is is Weyermanns' sauer malz? What's the grain bill?

 

[itsratso]

i don't remember what saur it was, i got it a few months ago. the buffers are also only a few months old. nothing crazy in my grain bills, i brewed an ipa, a pale ale and i do believe my blonde ale came up a bit off also. all a little low. maybe as the above poster said i got a batch of really strong acid malt? i think the next batch i will go with no malt to start and see where i am. i can always add a percent or two into the mash as i go if needed. will report back.

 

[Yooper]

Well, after rereading the Sticky, I was wrong. It clearly says "each 5 gallons to be treated" - Apologies if I caused confusion.

Even worse, it was Yooper's post! You should always listen carefully to the mistress.

I have to correct you here, so sorry about that- but it is certainly AJ's post, just that he emailed it to me and so I posted the info. I am NOT any sort of water guru- those roles belong to AJ and Martin. I'm just the messenger, not the author!

 

[mchrispen]

Two mistakes in 1 thread... /sigh