Water quality PH mash

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JamieGalea

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I am using the attached water. PH is 6.9 - 7.4.

I feel like my beer is can be smoother. I feel like it leaves a harsh aftertaste.

Could it be the high PH water im using ?

I have also attached photo of my last brew. I tried a kolsch style with safale k97 fermented at 18c / 65f
 

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I am using the attached water. PH is 6.9 - 7.4.

I feel like my beer is can be smoother. I feel like it leaves a harsh aftertaste.

Could it be the high PH water im using ?

I have also attached photo of my last brew. I tried a kolsch style with safale k97 fermented at 18c / 65f

The pH of the water isn't really that relevant - it's the other stuff in the water that matters. That water looks fairly plain, so you should be able to work with it without too much trouble.

Check out the water chemistry information in the brew science section. There's a simple primer there as well for people that don't want to get too in depth.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/
 
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I am using the attached water. PH is 6.9 - 7.4.

I feel like my beer is can be smoother. I feel like it leaves a harsh aftertaste.

Could it be the high PH water im using ?

I have also attached photo of my last brew. I tried a kolsch style with safale k97 fermented at 18c / 65f


That pH isn't high, it's just about neutral. Follow marc1's advice and read up on the water info in the HBT Brew Science section of the forum. Again, the pH of the water is not of particular importance it is the composition of the water which determines direction you need to take. Two water samples with the same pH could have very different mixes of ions in them. Needed adjustments to the water will get your mash pH (which is important) to the correct range and allow you to balance various ions for the best results with different styles of beer. You may also want to consider getting a full water report for brewing purposes. Whatever that list is in the photo does not have the full information of water ions that is needed.
 
Harsh to me is how I'd describe isopropyl alcohol tasting. But don't drink that to find out, I didn't either. Was this a higher alcohol beer than you are use to?

What temps did you mash at?

Or is harsh maybe what some of us might describe as very bitter?
 
Harsh to me is how I'd describe isopropyl alcohol tasting. But don't drink that to find out, I didn't either. Was this a higher alcohol beer than you are use to?

What temps did you mash at?

Or is harsh maybe what some of us might describe as very bitter?


By harsh i would say the bitter side and that slight sourness but not alcohol no. Mash temp was in the 68c -70c.
This taste has been consistent with previous brews and that is why i am ruling out contamination. Maybe it is the yeast strain as all the other batches were done with the same yeast strain.

When i ask friends and family who try my beer they say it is a nice beer and dont really taste what i am tasting, maybe because i am going into detail to try and improve my beer.

This conclusion of an aftertase in my beer came in comparison with commercial craft beer. I find commercial craft beer have a cleaner smoother after taste when you taste it. Also this aftertaste i am refering to seems to not be noticed after some sips, it kind of mellows, like ur taste buds get used to it.

Maybe I am exlecpting too much from my beer or I am getting paranoid ! Haha
 
This conclusion of an aftertase in my beer came in comparison with commercial craft beer. I find commercial craft beer have a cleaner smoother after taste when you taste it. Also this aftertaste i am refering to seems to not be noticed after some sips, it kind of mellows, like ur taste buds get used to it.
I know you say it wasn't an alcohol taste, but was the comparison beer the same ABV?

When i ask friends and family who try my beer they say it is a nice beer and dont really taste what i am tasting, maybe because i am going into detail to try and improve my beer.
It is possible you might be too critical. And that's fine as long as it doesn't get to be where you think it's great and everyone else think it's crap.
 
By harsh i would say the bitter side and that slight sourness but not alcohol no. Mash temp was in the 68c -70c.
This taste has been consistent with previous brews and that is why i am ruling out contamination. Maybe it is the yeast strain as all the other batches were done with the same yeast strain.

When i ask friends and family who try my beer they say it is a nice beer and dont really taste what i am tasting, maybe because i am going into detail to try and improve my beer.

This conclusion of an aftertase in my beer came in comparison with commercial craft beer. I find commercial craft beer have a cleaner smoother after taste when you taste it. Also this aftertaste i am refering to seems to not be noticed after some sips, it kind of mellows, like ur taste buds get used to it.

Maybe I am exlecpting too much from my beer or I am getting paranoid ! Haha

Are you kegging or bottling?

I have found that after the beer is carbonated, giving it a couple weeks at refrigerator temperatures can really improve the flavor.
 
Are you kegging or bottling?

I have found that after the beer is carbonated, giving it a couple weeks at refrigerator temperatures can really improve the flavor.

I Bottle.... i think I should wait for my next batch. Will be bottling next week so in a months time i can give it a try. This time it is an amber ale with a diff yeast. I am trying the us05. This way i will see if i notive the same aftertaste or if it is just the yeast k97 that leaves that particular aftertaste.

Attached is a sample of the next brew 5 days fermenting, today 6th day airlock slowing down. So far so good.
 

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I Bottle.... i think I should wait for my next batch. Will be bottling next week so in a months time i can give it a try. This time it is an amber ale with a diff yeast. I am trying the us05. This way i will see if i notive the same aftertaste or if it is just the yeast k97 that leaves that particular aftertaste.

Attached is a sample of the next brew 5 days fermenting, today 6th day airlock slowing down. So far so good.

When you are pouring from the bottle, make sure that you pour all at once and leave an ounce or two in the bottle so that you aren't getting the yeast sediment in your glass. Also, store the bottles upright so that the yeast settles to the bottom of the bottle over time.
 
When you are pouring from the bottle, make sure that you pour all at once and leave an ounce or two in the bottle so that you aren't getting the yeast sediment in your glass. Also, store the bottles upright so that the yeast settles to the bottom of the bottle over time.

Yes, I am lately chilling bottles in advanced so that yeast compacts itself and stays at the bottom 🙂

It could be I am being too fussy and I do get paranoid with this infection thing. But i guess if the beer gets an infection the taste will tell and you would not be able to enjoy the beer.
 
That water reportedly has less than 40 ppm TDS, so any of the individual ions has got to be lower. So that water is a decent starting point.

But the real question is: are you adding acid to the mashing water? If you're not and you're brewing a nice pale beer, acid is needed in the mashing water. High mashing pH does result in darker color than expected and a less crisp and lively beer.
 
That water reportedly has less than 40 ppm TDS, so any of the individual ions has got to be lower. So that water is a decent starting point.

But the real question is: are you adding acid to the mashing water? If you're not and you're brewing a nice pale beer, acid is needed in the mashing water. High mashing pH does result in darker color than expected and a less crisp and lively beer.

No i do not add anything to the water.
 
Difficult to make total sense of the water, but might it be desalinated? As said, it has very low mineral content, but the exact breakdown is impossible to say with the given information. At a guess I'd plump for 2 ppm calcium, <1 ppm magnesium, 4 ppm sodium, 3 ppm sulfate, 6 ppm chloride with alkalinity somewhere around 3 ppm as CaCO3. If it is desalinated I would assume less calcium and more magnesium than in those figures, but whatever they might be, if they were all zero, any beer so produced would be identical.

Adding acid would reduce the pH of the mash and runnings from sparging and reduce the haze making and astringent tasting products. You don't say what beer style you were producing, but if it was a lager, then it would benefit from six or more months lagering to allow the haze to clear and the beer flavours to improve.

You mentioned ale as the latest brew, which would benefit from calcium salt additions. They would, like an acid addition, lower pH to reduce the quantities of unwanted being produced, but further, with such low alkalinity present there would be no need to add acid and the calcium would deposit the unwanted products produced during the mash, some in the mash itself and the remainder in the kettle if a good rolling boil was ,maintained for 60 minutes.

The level of calcium needed can often be a matter of opinion, but modern text book used in universities suggest for ales a minimum level of 100 ppm calcium is required in all liquor to quickly dispatch unwanted product to their rightful place. When that is done, clearing of the beer will be dependent upon the flocculation rate of your chosen yeast. Some Yorkshire yeasts can clear in hours, Burton yeasts take longer before they drop bright, while there are some that are chosen solely for their flavor profile and can take weeks to clear down.
 
When i ask friends and family who try my beer they say it is a nice beer and dont really taste what i am tasting, maybe because i am going into detail to try and improve my beer.

Maybe I am exlecpting too much from my beer or I am getting paranoid ! Haha

Sometimes it's hard to get a straight-forward answer on the taste of your beer from friends or family.
They naturally want to be positive.

And remember, just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean the world is not out to get you... ;)
 
Sometimes it's hard to get a straight-forward answer on the taste of your beer from friends or family.
They naturally want to be positive.

And remember, just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean the world is not out to get you... ;)

Hence me posting here, i dont trust their feedback 😄
 
Maybe it is the yeast strain as all the other batches were done with the same yeast strain.

Funny you should say this. My initial impression was it's the yeast's fault. I've tried K-97 several times. I wanted to like it, I tried, but.... I don't like it. It's tart, and doughy, and yes, "harsh".

It's not the water. Forget about the water.

Try a different yeast. Problem solved.
 
Ho! A pils malt in zero alkalinity distilled water results in a pH of 5.7 to 5.8. That’s far too high for a good outcome. Acid is always needed for pale beer brewing.
 
Ho! A pils malt in zero alkalinity distilled water results in a pH of 5.7 to 5.8. That’s far too high for a good outcome. Acid is always needed for pale beer brewing.

That's a good point. Mash pH would have been a little high for at least the Kolsch. But OP says he's had this problem for multiple batches all with K-97, which also leads me to believe it's mostly been the K-97's fault.

@JamieGalea , what other styles have you brewed that had the same problem?
 
Ho! A pils malt in zero alkalinity distilled water results in a pH of 5.7 to 5.8. That’s far too high for a good outcome. Acid is always needed for pale beer brewing.

I've no experience of US malts, but with that water without treatment and a European Pilsen Malt I use, a mash pH of less than 6.0 would be highly unlikely.
 

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I've no experience of US malts, but with that water without treatment and a European Pilsen Malt I use, a mash pH of less than 6.0 would be highly unlikely.

In my experience with various malts, I would expect about 5.7-5.8, same as Martin. The water looks to be extremely soft, in line with Plsen.
 
In my experience with various malts, I would expect about 5.7-5.8, same as Martin. The water looks to be extremely soft, in line with Plsen.
Right then, so yet another difference. Agreed the water appears to be very soft, but pH 5.7-5.8 would be more in line with European modern pale than Pilsner Malt in distilled or DI water. The previous Dingeman spec gave only a maximum figure for pH, while those by Swaen include a minimum for pH.

Interesting.
 
That's a good point. Mash pH would have been a little high for at least the Kolsch. But OP says he's had this problem for multiple batches all with K-97, which also leads me to believe it's mostly been the K-97's fault.

@JamieGalea , what other styles have you brewed that had the same problem?

Wheat beer
 
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