Water chemistry noob.

[corycorycory09]

I'm attempting my first AG brew this weekend... this 90 minute IPA:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-90-minute-clone-260675/


However, I'm not entirely sure what I should be doing in terms of water chemistry. My tap water tastes fine. Should I make any adjustments? Would it be better to just purchase drinking water?

Here is the water quality report for my municipality. The relevant numbers are on pages 7-11
http://www.mudomaha.com/sites/default/files/CCR2013_0.pdf

 

[pcampo]

If you dont know the bicarbonate and alkalinity of your tap water its best to just use 100% RO water and add salts. There are lot of recipes for water profile for an IPA on line; im not too sure how much of each salt to add since I rarely use 100% RO.

From the looks of your grist, you will have a low SRM beer, which will need a softer water. If your tap water is hard, like mine, you will not produce a good low SRM beer

 

[corycorycory09]

If you dont know the bicarbonate and alkalinity of your tap water its best to just use 100% RO water and add salts. There are lot of recipes for water profile for an IPA on line; im not too sure how much of each salt to add since I rarely use 100% RO.

From the looks of your grist, you will have a low SRM beer, which will need a softer water. If your tap water is hard, like mine, you will not produce a good low SRM beer

Are the 1 gallon bottles of water from the store 100% RO?

According to my water report, my municipality averages calcium levels of 41 PPM and magnesium levels of 13 PPM.

The calcium level appears to be in the correct range to be considered "Soft" according to wikipedia, but I'm not sure how the magnesium levels factor in. The PH they give is 8.96 but the grains should bring that down some if I understand correctly.

 

[pablosbrewing]

You have a lot of sodium in your water, for a hoppy beer that is not usually wanted (brings out sweetness). Also your pH is quite high.

I would add gypsum (0.75 to 1 tsp per 5 gallons) and lactic acid (start at 0.5 tsp per 5 gals).

BeerSmith and many other programs have built in water calculators, and here is an online free one:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Best idea is purchase RO water (those machines) and build up the profile in the calculator.

 

[pcampo]

Are the 1 gallon bottles of water from the store 100% RO?

Not all of them. They will say on the label in small print if they are treated with reverse osmosis.

According to my water report, my municipality averages calcium levels of 41 PPM and magnesium levels of 13 PPM.

I wasn't able to open up the pdf of your water report, but just having calcium levels doesn't tell if its soft or hard water, bicarbonates do. For instances, I have 50 ppm calcium and 187 ppm of bicarbonates. The city of Beerse, according to one water report of one location, has 57 ppm of Cal, and 80 ppm of bicarb. Similar Calcium but very different bicarbonates that result in very different mash pH, and mash pH is what matters.

I typed in that recipe you have into Brun water with my water profile and it resulted in a mash pH of 5.9, which is way too high. I then changed my bicarbonate level to 80, and that changed the mash pH to 5.6, an acceptable level. So if you want to use you water, you have to know the bicarbonate level first, then I would use a brewing water program. Here is a link to a way you can test at home for bicarbonate levels: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=At_home_water_testing.

The calcium level appears to be in the correct range to be considered "Soft" according to wikipedia, but I'm not sure how the magnesium levels factor in. The PH they give is 8.96 but the grains should bring that down some if I understand correctly.

Grains only bring down pH to a certain extent and that greatly depends on your bicarbonate levels and your grist. Higher roasted grains are more acidic and therefore bring down your mash pH more, that is why hard water is favorable for darker beers because the hard water balances the acidity of the roasted grains. Don't worry too much about magnesium right now, 13 ppm is an acceptable level.

 

[TheHappyHopper]

I'm attempting my first AG brew this weekend... this 90 minute IPA:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-90-minute-clone-260675/


However, I'm not entirely sure what I should be doing in terms of water chemistry. My tap water tastes fine. Should I make any adjustments? Would it be better to just purchase drinking water?

Here is the water quality report for my municipality. The relevant numbers are on pages 7-11
http://www.mudomaha.com/sites/default/files/CCR2013_0.pdf

Have you done extract batches previously? Or is this your first batch of anything ever?

If your home tap water tastes good to you and/or you have had luck with extract batches before, then I would say just use your water as-is. I'm a fan of keeping things as simple as possible when you start out and then increasing the complexity with each batch. You can always take notes on the taste, starting and final gravities, etc., and if something doesn't come out as expected then look to start tweaking it next time.

If it doesn't turn out perfect, it will still make great beer and will be a learning experience.

 

[pablosbrewing]

I wasn't able to open up the pdf of your water report, but just having calcium levels doesn't tell if its soft or hard water, bicarbonates do.

Total hardness average is 9 grains per gallon in his water report (range 8-11).

9 grains per gallon = 154ppm --> it's hard water.

 

[pcampo]

Total hardness average is 9 grains per gallon in his water report (range 8-11).

9 grains per gallon = 154ppm --> it's hard water.

Mine is 153 ppm; almost identical....Yes it is hard. thank you for looking that up for me

 

[pcampo]

If your home tap water tastes good to you and/or you have had luck with extract batches before, then I would say just use your water as-is. I'm a fan of keeping things as simple as possible when you start out and then increasing the complexity with each batch. You can always take notes on the taste, starting and final gravities, etc., and if something doesn't come out as expected then look to start tweaking it next time.

If it doesn't turn out perfect, it will still make great beer and will be a learning experience.

Im not trying to stir the pot here, and everything im about to say is in the out most respect, but just tasting the water doesnt tell you much except if it has chlorine. Most tap sources in the US are meant for drinking, so they are going to taste fairly decent.

I would just leave this comment alone, because yes its true he can just experiment and see what he gets and tweak the beer later. However, seeing the kind of beer he wants to brew, and seeing that his water pH is 8.9 (very high), should raise some flags. And I truly believe that with that high of alkalinity and the low color of beer he wants, it will not be a good beer. Not all home brews produced is good beer. Some are undrinkable. And in this case, if he tries to brew that recipe with his tap water, he may have an astrigent beer, which wont be very pleasent. (I cant remember which produces tannins, high pH or low pH, but in this case im just trying to make a point)

Historically, beer styles were created with experimentation and tweeking, but with years of failure. For instance, London could not create a light colored pale ale for the life of them, and we know now that was because of their extremely hard water. But then someone decided to thrown in black roasted grain which counteracted their alkalinity, and "poof" the amazing London porter was created. Homebrewtalk is here save all that trouble.

If you want a simple solution to the water, Using 100% RO water and just throw in a little gypsum, is as simple as it will get.

 

[TheHappyHopper]

Im not trying to stir the pot here, and everything im about to say is in the out most respect, but just tasting the water doesnt tell you much except if it has chlorine. Most tap sources in the US are meant for drinking, so they are going to taste fairly decent.

I would just leave this comment alone, because yes its true he can just experiment and see what he gets and tweak the beer later. However, seeing the kind of beer he wants to brew, and seeing that his water pH is 8.9 (very high), should raise some flags. And I truly believe that with that high of alkalinity and the low color of beer he wants, it will not be a good beer. Not all home brews produced is good beer. Some are undrinkable. And in this case, if he tries to brew that recipe with his tap water, he may have an astrigent beer, which wont be very pleasent. (I cant remember which produces tannins, high pH or low pH, but in this case im just trying to make a point)

Historically, beer styles were created with experimentation and tweeking, but with years of failure. For instance, London could not create a light colored pale ale for the life of them, and we know now that was because of their extremely hard water. But then someone decided to thrown in black roasted grain which counteracted their alkalinity, and "poof" the amazing London porter was created. Homebrewtalk is here save all that trouble.

If you want a simple solution to the water, Using 100% RO water and just throw in a little gypsum, is as simple as it will get.

Understood - I'm just a fan of learning by doing - I can read all day about different topics and how I can improve my beer, but it doesn't mean anything to me until I can actually taste the results.

Also, don't water mineral levels fluctuate throughout the seasons? City water reports are only issued once a year. If you are really intent on trying to fine tune your water for a specific style, shouldn't you get the water coming out of your faucet tested each season and then go from there?

 

[pcampo]

Also, don't water mineral levels fluctuate throughout the seasons? City water reports are only issued once a year.

Thats why I suggested 100% RO water for those who want to fine tune. I use about 50% RO, unless im making a very light colored beer like a pilsner, i use 100% RO. As far as my tap water goes, I only get it tested once a year for 25-30 bucks because im curious. Does the mineral profile change season to season? ya probably, but its probably not too dramatic. but im not stickler in knowing exaclty whats in my water at every brew session anyway. im not brewing commercially. 50ppm of calcium or 65ppm calcium still makes the same beer. What i do care about is alkalinity. And that whats pH meters and strips are for. But anyway, I have never had to adjust my mash pH, so my guess is that the alkalinity has not changed much. The water will not change all sudden from hard to soft water unless you install a water softener. Its good to know a base line of your alkalinity to know what beer you can actually brew successfully.

A simple rule of thumb:
Hard water= dark beers
Soft water (not from a water softener)= light beers
From there you can use your taste buds.

If you are really intent on trying to fine tune your water for a specific style, shouldn't you get the water coming out of your faucet tested each season and then go from there?

Its not about fine tuning for a specific style. Its about making good beer. Simply put, you will not make a good light colored beer with alkaline water. You need soft water for it to taste good. I dont care about style.

 

[pcampo]

By the way, if someone is curious in knowing their alkalinity season to season, they should check out this link: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=At_home_water_testing

Im thinking of buying that product since its so cheap and solves the problem of water changes throughout the year