Water Additions for Stout - Help Wanted!

[Ncangey0514]

I'm attempting to brew my first stout (fourth BIAB overall) & I'm having issues creating a water profile that makes any kind of sense. I've messed with Bru'n Water & Brewer's Friend and the numbers that are coming out are way off, particularly sodium, since I'm having to add a lot of bicarb to get the carbonate levels up. I was planning on using 100% distilled water since I'm not sure of the water profile for my domestic water so I figured it'd be best to start with a blank slate. I'm essentially copying the recipe below except upping the grain bill a bit since I am BIAB and I am expecting a pretty low efficiency (65-70%). Also, I am not planning on sparging. Lastly, when inputting my numbers, I was planning adding all of my additions to the mash. If anybody can help point me in the right direction & help me figure out what I'm doing wrong I would greatly appreciate it!

Original Recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...e-coffee-oatmeal-maple-imperial-stout.496504/

BIAB modified:

Method: BIAB
Style: Imperial Stout
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 2.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.069 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
Mash: 60 mins @ 154 w/ 10 min mashout @168
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): ~3wks @ 64-66

Wyeast - Irish Ale 1084​

with 1L starter (NB Canned Wort) ​

Original Gravity:
1.103
Final Gravity:
1.028
ABV (standard):
9.85%
IBU (tinseth):
20.88
SRM (morey):
46.37

7.15 lb 2-Row
1.53 lb Rolled Oats
0.45 lb Toasted Oats
0.33 lb Coffee Malt
0.33 lb Chocolate Malt
0.25 lb De-Husked Caraf III
0.25 lb Roasted Barley
0.5 lb Maple syrup added @ 3 days
10.79 lb Total

HOPS:
0.5 oz Cluster Hops Pellet Boil 60 min
0.5 oz Willamette Hops Pellet Boil 30 min
0.5 oz Willamette Hops Pellet Boil 5 min

OTHER:
2 oz cocoa powder @ 5 min.
2 oz cacao nibs @ 7 days (tincture w/bourbon)
1 oz vanilla bean @ 7 days (tincture w/bourbon)
2 oz whole coffee beans for 4 days (tincture w/bourbon)
3 crushed cinnamon sticks for 3 days (tincture w/bourbon)


I am planning on adding most of the bourbon when I add the cinnamon sticks as well. I was considering adding some medium toast oak cubes (boiled for 15 mins to remove tannins) & let them sit in secondary for a while but I think I'll try it without the oak this time.

Again, if anyone can help out an idiot who is completely confused, I would appreciate it very much, as this is going to be a pretty expensive beer to make so I don't want it to be a drain pour!

 

[mabrungard]

Don't fret too much about the reported sodium level since that only exists in the mashing wort. The sparging water won't have the baking soda and it will serve to dilute that ultimate sodium level to a more modest level. The degree of dilution is dependent upon the ratio of mashing water to sparging water. The free version of Bru'n Water doesn't account for that dilution, but the supporter's version does.

Keeping the mashing pH from dropping too low does improve the perception of roast flavors in your stout, so employing some sort of alkali with your DI mashing water will help. With regard to other ions in your brewing water, I wouldn't get too mineralized. The black and brown color-based water profiles in Bru'n Water have relatively modest mineralization and that should keep your water in the background and let your malt, roast, and hop to dominate the beer presentation. I wouldn't add too much sulfate to this brew since it has a drying effect on the beer finish. I see that you're adding cinnamon and that also has a drying effect, so you don't want to overdo it! The Black Full profile might be most appropriate for this brew.

 

[Ncangey0514]

Don't fret too much about the reported sodium level since that only exists in the mashing wort. The sparging water won't have the baking soda and it will serve to dilute that ultimate sodium level to a more modest level. The degree of dilution is dependent upon the ratio of mashing water to sparging water. The free version of Bru'n Water doesn't account for that dilution, but the supporter's version does.

Keeping the mashing pH from dropping too low does improve the perception of roast flavors in your stout, so employing some sort of alkali with your DI mashing water will help. With regard to other ions in your brewing water, I wouldn't get too mineralized. The black and brown color-based water profiles in Bru'n Water have relatively modest mineralization and that should keep your water in the background and let your malt, roast, and hop to dominate the beer presentation. I wouldn't add too much sulfate to this brew since it has a drying effect on the beer finish. I see that you're adding cinnamon and that also has a drying effect, so you don't want to overdo it! The Black Full profile might be most appropriate for this brew.

Thanks for the helpful comments, sir! Also, to clarify, I was not planning on sparging, however, I played with the numbers some more and got much closer to where I want to be.

Ca - 48 ppm
Mg - 10 ppm
Na - 25 ppm
SO4 - 34 ppm
Cl - 41 ppm
HCO3 - 146 ppm
pH - 5.48

Unless I overlooked something or if anyone has any improvements they think I can make, I will probably roll this this profile and see how it turns out!

 

[mabrungard]

Oh, the other thing I should have mentioned is that sodium is actually a flavor positive ion. Having sodium in your wort at concentrations of less than 70 ppm is entirely OK. I've tried higher concentrations, but I found it a bit odd tasting. I think that the sodium was interacting with the sulfate and that is a known flavor negative combination.

 

[rhys333]

Thanks for the helpful comments, sir! Also, to clarify, I was not planning on sparging, however, I played with the numbers some more and got much closer to where I want to be.

Ca - 48 ppm
Mg - 10 ppm
Na - 25 ppm
SO4 - 34 ppm
Cl - 41 ppm
HCO3 - 146 ppm
pH - 5.48

Unless I overlooked something or if anyone has any improvements they think I can make, I will probably roll this this profile and see how it turns out!

Something I've done with success is to mash in near-distilled water with just a small amount of CaCl2 and then a very small amount of baking soda to get the appropriate carbonate levels. Far less than I would otherwise need with all the minerals added to the mash. The rest of my CaCl2, gypsum and epsom went in the brew kettle. The beer turned out really well.