Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[makisupapolice14]

So many posts, I’m sure this has been inquired about several times already. I have a packet of s189 I’m thinking about fermenting warm in a Schwarzbier this weekend. Anyone successfully ferment this in the lower to middle 60s? What was your pitch temp and fermentation schedule?

If it’s a bad idea I have plenty of 34/70 on hand.
I’ve used 34/70 a bunch of times and love the result but I’ve heard good things about s-189 in malty/dark lagers. Thanks in advance.

To circle back i brewed this beer. Single packet non-rehydrated in the low 60s and the end result is very nice! Crisp and clean finish and supports the Maltiness well. Recommended for sure.

 

[LokiM4]

To circle back i brewed this beer. Single packet non-rehydrated in the low 60s and the end result is very nice! Crisp and clean finish and supports the Maltiness well. Recommended for sure. View attachment 686978

The folks at Brulosophy have used S-189 at traditional Ale fermentation temps in some experiments and had success

 

[seatazzz]

Had to dump a really nasty Wit that went south this morning; was counting on it to fill out the pipeline. So had an impromptu WF lager brew session. 11lbs Pilsner, mashed at 152, with Sterling for bittering and what I had left of Hallertau Mittelfruh & Blanc as late additions. Racked it directly onto the yeast cake from the last one that was done cold; even with the yeast starting out at less than 55, it took off like crazy after only 30 minutes. Tonight it's going apesh*t in there. Gonna push this one fast, ten days grain to glass. What, me crazy? Oh hells yes. Want this one to be ready when we and the neighbors kill the current lager keg next weekend.

 

[RePete]

Brewed a Dortmunder Export Lager yesterday. Pitched a single pack of dry 34/70, and it had airlock activity within a couple hours. Was going strong by morning. I just have it in on the floor in my basement. Checked the temp a while ago, and it was 72*. I think it’s ok for now. But worried that the temps are supposed to get up into the 90’s here this week.

 

[seatazzz]

I have just enough of my cold-fermented lager left to do a side-by-side with the WF one I did last week, which is currently force carbing. Initial taste of the new one is just fine, looking forward to seeing how it compares. The last one has had some lagering time, yes, but should still get a decent impression of them side by side.

 

[user 263363]

I tried my 3rd warm fermented lager (2nd with 34/70) today. It’s only been bottle conditioning a week, but I always try my bottled beers a week in.

It Has a bit to go as far as carb goes, but it’s honestly quite good. Only 2 malts and some sugar and very light hopping so there’s not much to hide behind. I get the slight maltiness from using equal parts Munich and Pilsner. Just enough hops to keep it from being sweet. No off flavors that I can detect.

I pitched a little high at around 70f, but cooled it on down to 64f and let it ride until a d rest at 68f 10 days later. I’m 2/2 with 34/70 and “warm” fermenting.

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

@CaddyWampus

Man! That looks perfect!

 

[guiriguiri]

Happy to report that my SMaSH pilsner/saaz (following czechvar hopping schedule) with Hothead yeast @78 degrees, made something delicious that passes as a lager. Slight hint of fruitiness if you look for it. Just got an email about a new Lutra Kveik that's designed for clean ferments like this, so that'll be the next thing I try.

 

[Sacred Knot Brewing]

Sorry if this was already asked but didn’t feel like digging through 35 pages of replies to look lol..has anyone done a Märzen or Vienna using warm fermentation with 34/70?

 

[Bohern]

Sorry if this was already asked but didn’t feel like digging through 35 pages of replies to look lol..has anyone done a Märzen or Vienna using warm fermentation with 34/70?

I did a Vienna and it turned out quite well, for sure a brew again beer soon.

 

[applescrap]

I'm planning on doing my first warm fermented lager next weekend. I came across a post on reddit where the poster said they had better results pitching 34/70 around 40F and letting it warm naturally at room temperature. Anyone have experience doing this?

It turns out iirc, and let me know if I am not recalling correctly, that in a general brew advice sense, pitching cold yeast from fridge into warm wort is one of the best ways to pitch dry yeast. Not sure if this is what you are doing or talking about, but wanted to share this little tip. I have confirmed this, once again iirc, with some really masterful brewers. Idk why it works but man it works great. If you are not talking about this, then the reasons behind that reddit users post, as innocent as it seems, delves deeply into the fierce (literally) debate that spawned this thread. I can, as can others here more knowledgeable than me, splay out the rationale behind why brew theory would support his findings.

But that opens this thread up to begin that debate, or continue it better said, and the passion on both sides behind that debate, it takes off like wildfire. This thread needs to remain free of that debate as it will take over and consume the thread for starters. However, seen as a technique if one can get their wort that cold I dont see anything bad that could come out of doing that technique and in general pitching somewhat lower and letting rise is seen as a good practice as once fermentation starts to high it wont lower as the process will keep the heat up. Some, John Palmer for example, have scientific rationale and empirical evidence that brewing this way is the proper and best way. Others, like me, have our own empirical evidence and taste tests, or dont care enough about any slight variation to buy fermentation fridges or other specialized equipment. I am not against that method or discussing it, maybe using a fridge to cool wort, then pitching and letting rise and fermenting warm, but want to make sure that no debate ensues. What would be great is to test this, the batches need to be identical in every way except one is chilled in fridge then yeast pitched and allowed to rise and ferment warm. And one cooled to 64 or whatever and yeast pitched. Then tasted in a blind triangle, you taste two of one and one of the other and then try to pick the odd one out.

 

[applescrap]

Update, after pku I see that you did use fridge to cool and then pitch. Sounds like a good plan. I havent been drinking as much and last batches were founders breakfast stout clone and blue moon clone. My next batch will be light lager. I will update when I brew it. I love brewing it because I can make 10g full volume brewing, biab, in 15g kettle. Maybe I will use glucoamylase and see if I can make something 4 percent using a ridiculously small amount of grain.

 

[guiriguiri]

Well, shoot! All the sources I've tried so far are out of Oslo. Might have to go with 34/70 for this round. lol

Lutra, just released by Omega, is supposed to be the same strain as Oslo

 

[Sacred Knot Brewing]

Alright guys, once my fermenter opens up I’m going to start a Märzen using warm fermentation method. I’m still new to home brewing so any tips on the recipe I’ve come up with would be much appreciated! The temps listed below are the best I can do. I’m using a pot of cold water with ice packs inside of a cooler bag to control temps.

“Grovetoberfest”
Partial Mash
Batch size: 1 gallon
Boil size: 1.7 gallons
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.009
Total Fermentables: 2.06 lbs
IBUs: Approx 21
SRM: 13.5

Grain bill:
8 oz (24.2%) Munich DME
12 oz (36.4%) Vienna malt
8 oz (24.2%) Dark Munich malt
4 oz (12.1%) CaraMunich I (for color and flavor)
1 oz (3.0%) Carapils (for body and head retention)

Hop schedule:
5g Hallertau mittelfruh @ 60 min
3g Hallertau mittelfruh @ 30 & 15 min

Yeast:
Saflager 34/70

Protein rest ~122 for 20 min. Pull a decoction (amount?) and boil for 15 min. Add back to main mash and equalize to 150 for 45 min. Vorlauf until clearing then add 1st wort to boil. Sparge and let rest for 10 min, add 2nd wort to boil. Add water to full boil volume, whisk in DME and boil for 60 min, following above hops schedule. Chill wort to low to mid 50s and pitch rehydrated yeast (half a packet for a 1 gallon batch)? Hold in high 50s to low 60s until heavy fermentation completes, then allow to rise to high 60s to complete primary (about 2 weeks). Rack to mini keg and lager for 1 month. Force carb for last 1-2 weeks.

 

[cmac62]

Has anyone used W2308 Munich yeast warm? What was the outcome?

 

[twd000]

has anyone used Diamond Lager yeast at warm temperatures? MY LHBS was sold out of 34/70

 

[ebbelwoi]

Supposedly, Diamond is the dry equivalent of W2308 (the Doemens 308 strain). There's a post way back in this thread from someone who had success fermenting warm with Diamond. I recently did a warm pressure ferment of with Diamond at around 75. It was a side-by-side comparison with w34/70, and the Diamond seemed noticeably cleaner.

 

[user 263363]

I am currently brewing up my Oktoberfest for the fall. I plan to really warm ferment this thing. Around 70f ambient, but under pressure. After some reading, it appears that pressure fermenting is perfect for lagers as it suppresses any esters or phenols. I will definitely keep everyone updated as to how this experiment goes.

 

[user 263363]

Current update of the warm Oktoberfest. It is almost to 10 psi. I’ve not been able to find a “guide” for pressure fermentation so I might let it stay around there. According to the stick on thermometer, I am somewhere between 75f and 68f lol. Ambient is 70f but it’s sitting on my dining room table covered in a sweatshirt.

 

[seatazzz]

Supposedly, Diamond is the dry equivalent of W2308 (the Doemens 308 strain). There's a post way back in this thread from someone who had success fermenting warm with Diamond. I recently did a warm pressure ferment of with Diamond at around 75. It was a side-by-side comparison with w34/70, and the Diamond seemed noticeably cleaner.

I've used the Diamond in my last two WF lagers, and I'm very happy with it. Nice clean fermentation, great flavor, and it lends well to reusing the slurry so far. I tried it cold as well and it did fine, although I like the flavor of WF lagers better, dunno why.

 

[user 263363]

Getting a little nervous about this experiment. Things are getting quite warm in there. I did wake up to almost 20 psi on the regulator. I thought I had it adjusted properly for around 12 psi but apparently not.

 

[lincolnubrewer]

Getting a little nervous about this experiment. Things are getting quite warm in there. I did wake up to almost 20 psi on the regulator. I thought I had it adjusted properly for around 12 psi but apparently not.

View attachment 691143View attachment 691144

Hi,
I meant to comment on your previous post. I have a fermzilla also and to answer your questions about how much psi to keep during active fermentation is between 10-15psi. I have ran into the problem that you have. At higher psi its suppress the yeast to the bottom. Just release pressure slowly to 10-15 psi and you should see activity again. What yeast are you using by the way?

 

[user 263363]

Hi,
I meant to comment on your previous post. I have a fermzilla also and to answer your questions about how much psi to keep during active fermentation is between 10-15psi. I have ran into the problem that you have. At higher psi its suppress the yeast to the bottom. Just release pressure slowly to 10-15 psi and you should see activity again. What yeast are you using by the way?

Thanks for the feedback on pressure. I am using my old standby 34/70. From what little bit I can find on the subject, I think I’m going to be ok even with the higher than expected temps.

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

Dr. Hans on YouTube brewed a lager using Omega Yeast's OYL071 Lutra Kveik fermented warm. Makes me want to get my hands on some and try it for myself.

 

[VikeMan]

This is interesting...

http://brulosophy.com/2020/07/30/ex...-at-ale-temperature-the-bru-club-xbmt-series/
Of course, it's a single data point, but what makes it interesting is that the finished beers were quantitatively tested (unusual for a Brulosophy experiment) with gas chromatography. The lab found elevated esters and ketones in the warm/pressure "lager."

 

[fra]

Hi folks! Just wanted to report another successful warm-fermented lager experiment. It is getting real hot here in southern Spain and I like a fresh lager in the summer so I gave this warm lager fermenting thing a try. I ended up with a bit over 4 gallons in my fermenting keg. Pitched two packs of 34/70, closed and attached a spunding valve at 15 PSI.

Fermentation was done in 3 days (FG 1.005). Chilled to serving temperature on day 5. I did not use any gelatine to clear and so it is still a bit cloudy at day 9. I am serving from the fermenter keg (I did cut the beer dip tube 5 cm / 2" to avoid picking up the trub).

All in all, very happy with the speed and the result. I will try again in a few weeks.

 

[RePete]

So, the Dortmunder recipe I did a while back ended up being really good, and we finished that keg rather quickly. At the point I kegged it, I was really disappointed. It was just was too malty or something. I was thinking about opening up the keg and trying to dry hop it. But I just let it sit, and am glad I did. It ended up with a kind of clarity that I’m kind of craving now. I’m amazed at how different it was sitting in the keg for a couple weeks. Are you guys finding this to be common with 34/70? I have another batch sitting in the fridge that I just kegged, and I’m really hoping for the same results.

 

[Chetbrews]

I had a chance to finally use Lallamand's diamond lager yeast on a batch of brulosophy's short and shoddy international pale lager a few weeks back. I made a 2.5 gallon batch and did no chill/pressurized fermentation at room temp around 68 degrees. 20 days later, I finally had a chance to pull a gravity sample and taste it. Initial thoughts: Aroma: Smells like a lager and I don't detect any sulfur. Taste: No off flavors, tastes like a lager, there is just enough bitterness to let the malt shine. I think it's going to be a pretty tasty lager. Just started to crash chill the batch and look forward to transferring the batch sometime this week with some gelatin to get it nice and clear.

 

[fra]

Going at it again: this time with a Augustiner Lagerbier Hell recipe. Fermenting at 15 PSI right now. Note to self: do NOT fill the fermentation keg to the rim, unless you enjoy beer showers

 

[fra]

Update on day 7
Head retention is not great
Still quite cloudy (I did not fine with gelatine, just 1/4 whirlfloc tablet)
Taste is great: nice and refreshing