Want to try my 1st sour

[Ki-ri-n]

So I want to try a sour
I have these 4 from Wicked Weed:
Marina
Hiver joie
Brett Tyranny
Bretticent

I plan on building a starter up from the dregs of one of the Bretts. Should I just make a pale ale, ferment with S05 or some other ale yeast, then after a few days-pitch the Brett starter and leave it alone for a few months?

Is it that easy?

 

[snowveil]

I can't speak 100% to which cultures you'll get out of those beers because I've never had them, but...

If Brett Tyranny and Bretticent are simply clean fermented beers with Brettanomyces added (which they appear to be), your beer will not be sour. It may get funky, fruity, etc, but it will not get sour. Slight tartness is possible, but don't expect a "sour" beer. If this is what you're going for, then, yes, just pitch the brett bottle dregs or make a starter of the bottle dregs and add it to the secondary fermenter of a clean beer.

The Marina, according to their website, appears to be a mixed culture fermented sour...in which case it will typically have lactic acid producing bacteria (most likely lactobacillus and pediococcus) in addition to Sacchromyces and Brettanomyces. The general recommendation for using these is to pitch the bottle dregs in to a starter, give it a few weeks (or months), decant off some of the starter, feed it more fresh wort, and continue this process until you're happy with how the starter wort is coming off as you build up the strength of the mixed culture, then pitch this starter culture into a beer (either as a primary strain or into secondary). If Pediococcus *IS* present, you're talking more than a "few" months to let this beer complete. Many strains of Pediococcus go through multiple phases that produce tons of off flavors (and off-textures...google image search "ropy beer") that the Brettanomyces will symbiotically clean up and convert into more pleasant characters. There's no set-in-stone timeline, but most folks let mixed culture fermentations run for a year or more to ensure the Pedio isn't going to continue working after the beer has been packaged.

As for the Hiver Joe...beats me . If it tastes sour, pitch the dregs into a starter along with the Marina.

 

[millsbrew]

I agree with snowveil. Those last two sound like they will only have brett. You could try emailing the brewery and asking if they have live microflora in the bottles. Many brewers are happy to help out homebrewers. If you have the room, I would recommend a split batch for your first. Try to do diff sacc or diff dreg starters or both. This would give you the ability to blend or a hedge in case one of the dregs is overpowering. I made the same batch 2x on consecutive weekends and pitched different bugs/dregs at secondary. They are in a closet and won't be touched for at least 8 months. Regarding your pitching schedule, it is that easy, but I'd recommend reading American Sours for some tips. Some styles benefit from transferring to secondary.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Thanks for the input!

I know it would be more than a few months, just being eager. Guess I'll make 4 starters and decide on how to blend them. Guess I just need to start somewhere and see where it leads me.

Any "problem" Starting with just adding a Brett strain, let it age and try it. Then if I would want something "more", depressurize a carbed keg, warm up then add a lacto/pedio and leave that sit for 8-12 months and try sampling again? Guess I'd have to treat the keg as a secondary and transfer it to another keg-correct? Will I be able to clean those kegs after the fact and be able to use them for other non-sour beers (if I also replaced all the o-rings)?

 

[millsbrew]

As far as aging in kegs, plenty of people do it. But I'd think another carboy would be cheaper/easier, and then you wouldn't have a keg tied up for a year. Not to mention, you'd need dedicated sour kegging lines/taps if you put on tap. I bottle my sours, and keg my cleans. I'm sure I will have an infection soon enough, but for now, it's all heavy duty glass bottles.

Regarding your "brett primary then add lacto/pedio", that's your call. From my reading (not experience), brett won't give it's typical characteristics if it is the sole yeast and it is slower than sacc at fermenting. Also, most commercial lacto isn't hop tolerant (so you'd need to do a low IBU), and pedio takes a long time (8-9 months min) to work it's magic, and requires brett to clean up off-flavors (buttery diacetyl). So you'd basically be adding lots of time on the back end, after already aging it on brett for months. Could be a cool experiment, but definitely not a quick one.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I have more than enough kegs (11) and only a 2 tap kegerator. I've never had more than 4 full at a time. But I forgot about changing the lines out :smack: Might have to just put it on a cobra tap.

 

[millsbrew]

Your keg hoarding is on par with my carboy hoarding. Makes me feel less bad about myself. You can just use them as fermenters and you'll use less floor space. Lots of pros use stainless for fermenting.

You can also get a picnic tap for your sours. Cheap and easy but then you are open kegerator more often.