Voss Kveik yeast is a monster

[greenjam]

Sounds like you’re smelling what diacetyl tastes like. As for it smelling that way, I have no idea. Maybe you’re smelling a hint of sulphur? Did you use nutrient in your brew?

I’m not one to identify off flavors, but those would be my thoughts.

I also think it's diacetyl, don't think it's sulfur...
Never used nutrient and never had any problem
My questions are, have anyone had a smell like this with voss and do you think the yeast will clean for itself?

 

[NobleNewt]

Allegedly, yes. Yeast produce diacetyl but they also clean it up. Here's an article.

You may have just sampled it/stumbled upon it during peak diacetyl? If that's even a thing..

 

[greenjam]

Allegedly, yes. Yeast produce diacetyl but they also clean it up. Here's an article.

You may have just sampled it/stumbled upon it during peak diacetyl? If that's even a thing..

Thanks for the article, I will let the beer at least a couple more days in the Fermentor...

I'm still curious if something like this as ever happened to anyone with voss and if you think that the origin was the low fermentation temperature

 

[NobleNewt]

Brewed a kolsch-ish recipe on Saturday. About 80/20 Vienna and White Wheat Malt mashed at 147, pitched Voss at about 85 degrees. Started at 13.2 Brix (1.053) and Monday was already down to 7 Brix (1.013 with refrac. correction).

About 48 hours and 75% attenuation!

 

[NobleNewt]

Sounds like I repeated the error of letting temperature fall during fermentation. Brewed a Porter one week ago and pitched one full packet of Omega Voss into 10 gallons at 85F. Wrapped the fermenter up in towels expecting it to stay warm from fermentation, but the weather was against me and it fell into the 60s. Original gravity 1056 and yesterday it was down to 1016, about four points higher than I wanted. Taste is sweetish and there's a lingering unpleasant burnt character that I hope ages out.

I put on a Brew Belt and we'll see if it wakes the yeast up. Would like to get at least two more gravity points out.

I’ve experienced the same. My wheat/kolsch ran down to 1.012 quickly, but stopped there when the carboy dropped into the 60s. I’ve applied the heating pad to get the yeast warmed up and there seems to be a mini krausen developing. I’m already at 75% attenuation, but my estimate was 82%. Basically, it should finish out about 3 SG points lower.

Seems like this yeast doesn’t care much for temps in the 60s unless you’ve got the patience and time to baby it along at those lower temps. I don’t, and I’d like to bottle this weekend!

 

[NobleNewt]

I'll say something else about this yeast.. If you bottle condition like I do, you can bottle, put your bottles on a heat pad to keep temps up, and they carb up much quicker than other yeasts without the off flavors.

Just poured one that's only been in the bottle 9 days before 2 days in the fridge and it's nice and bubbly! It came out of the case that sat on the heating pad for a few days.

 

[Albionwood]

I’m now fermenting my third batch with Voss, using slurry from the first batch that’s been in the fridge for a few weeks. Put 1 tbsp slurry into 400 ml wort on a stir plate at 99F while sparging, and it was foaming within half an hour. Pitched it into 19 gallons at 90F and 16 hours later it’s at 96F and fermenting vigorously.

Planning to serve this beer in 10 days.

Just finished the Porter from two months ago. It settled into a very nice beer, very drinkable. Not great enough for me to abandon M42 though, it’s still my favorite for Porter or Stout.

 

[greenjam]

Brewed a weat beer Sunday night, dump the wort over the slurry of a APA at 38°c 101°F OG=1.048, 1 hour later it was bubbling like crazy.
24h later was 95% done = 1.016

 

[NobleNewt]

I’m now fermenting my third batch with Voss, using slurry from the first batch that’s been in the fridge for a few weeks. Put 1 tbsp slurry into 400 ml wort on a stir plate at 99F while sparging, and it was foaming within half an hour. Pitched it into 19 gallons at 90F and 16 hours later it’s at 96F and fermenting vigorously.

Planning to serve this beer in 10 days.

Just finished the Porter from two months ago. It settled into a very nice beer, very drinkable. Not great enough for me to abandon M42 though, it’s still my favorite for Porter or Stout.

The amber ale I just made used only a splash of the Voss I had in the fridge. Maybe an ounce of the 8 oz mason jar I had in the fridge. No ill effects whatsoever. Didn't bring out any fruitiness like many seem to think an underpitch would. Very clean. Cleaned up more as it got into week 2 in primary. Looking forward to bottling it this weekend or next.

 

[Jokester]

What's the best source to buy this yeast.
I am fermenting beer though, I start at 6-9% and try to finish them dry via amg enzyme. I am getting fine results with ec1118 and Turbo 24 and a 28% I got from a ebay seller in Alaska, but I would like it to go faster, I am currently between 4 and 6 weeks.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[z-bob]

What's the best source to buy this yeast.
I am fermenting beer though, I start at 6-9% and try to finish them dry via amg enzyme. I am getting fine results with ec1118 and Turbo 24 and a 28% I got from a ebay seller in Alaska, but I would like it to go faster, I am currently between 4 and 6 weeks.
Cool.
Srinath.

I got mine here, a couple of years ago: https://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/voss-kveik-oyl-061/

 

[hottpeper13]

I'm with Z-bob, I order all my yeast from them. One time I put the order in at 3:00 am and got my package that afternoon!

 

[Jokester]

Its flocculation is medium ? and only 12% abv tolerance, but I saw in earlier posts it ferments fast to that 12% and flocculates well when its got to 12% or has fermented dry ?
I am very much in the 11% and up range, in fact I started a batch of amg hyper ferment of Double indemnity and this one goes to 11 50-50 blend that was 9.8% abv start - Ofcourse I have turbo 24 and a 28% er in it now in the yeast cake. That would finish out well I would think, I routinely start at sugary beverages that tip the scales over 8 when I start and may go to 14 or more.
Of course I could always get the fast ferment done in 3-4 days and add a second yeast that finishes dry.
The yeast cake of the Voss kevick doesn't stay useable past 2nd generation ? Is there a larger packet than the little ones they sell.
Does it flocculate after fermenting in the bottle, or is cold crashing necessary to flocculate it.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[z-bob]

The yeast cake of the Voss kevick doesn't stay useable past 2nd generation? Is there a larger packet than the little ones they sell.

Who told you that? Kveik yeasts are usable over and over for many generations. Maybe if you try to push it to 18% without a normal ABV batch in between strong batches it will die out, so don't do that

 

[Jokester]

I don't push to 18% in any of the "beers" per say, the 20+% abv comes in the freeze process, and I used to shoot for 30% and have come to realize the 20% ones taste better, I'll be trying to hit 20% for a couple batches but that's the freeze concentrate process.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[jaymosbeershack]

I ran a single pack of Voss for 6 batches, and probably could have kept going but I forgot to drop yeast before dry hopping.

 

[SanPancho]

Im wondering if there is any consensus on getting the esters to come out - is it mostly from underpitching? Or more about fermenting hot?

or is everyone pretty much following the hot+underpitch protocol?

 

[Jokester]

I ran a single pack of Voss for 6 batches, and probably could have kept going but I forgot to drop yeast before dry hopping.

What happens when you dry hop it with yeast still in it ? Because I am starting with a beer, its already got all the hops it ever will have basically.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Albionwood]

Im wondering if there is any consensus on getting the esters to come out - is it mostly from underpitching? Or more about fermenting hot?

or is everyone pretty much following the hot+underpitch protocol?

There's a split between "consensus" and "evidence."

Consensus is that underpitching+high temps = more esters. This is what most of us are doing, and it's the way kveiks have been used in Norway where they developed, if I understand correctly.
There have been some efforts to test that theory, under laboratory conditions and in homebrew tests (Brulosophy), though none have really been definitive. Those results have generally not provided strong evidence that underpitching really affects ester production, but I think they did show that temperature had a significant effect.

Several of us have also experienced stalling if temperature is allowed to decline during fermentation, though this is by no means universal.

Bottom line for me is, I can pitch a tablespoon of slurry from the last batch into 40 liters of wort, hold at 95F and get a great beer in a week. I don't think anyone would argue that's not a winning formula.

 

[SanPancho]

The issue is in relation to hops. Lower temp ferments hold on to more of the hop oils/etc than hotter ferms. Not sure if it’s about temp per se, or just a faster more vigorous ferment. Maybe both.
In that case, this temp protocol would sacrifice those hop flavors in hopes of retaining more yeast esters.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

See eg https://www.escarpmentlabs.com/single-post/2019/11/01/The-impact-of-pitch-rate-on-kveik-ferments

it looks like there is a trend for increased aroma intensity for some of the kveiks (Voss and Hornindal) as the pitch rate decreases. However, this is not true for Arset and Ebbegarden, where the trends are less clear. So this tells us that there is not a one-size-fits-all rule for kveik pitch rate and aroma production.

Factoring in fermentation rate, fermentation specs and aroma production, we think that 7 million cells / mL strikes a good balance between the low and high pitch rate, but that the sweet spot could be somewhere between the two. We have done collaboration brews with partner breweries at around the 3 million cell / mL rate with good results and minimal impact on fermentation kinetics.

A caveat for this study is that the yeasts were produced under ideal conditions and never left the lab. The results may be different for slurry that is shipped and stored for several weeks. But if brewers want to attempt this kind of study themselves, we're all ears!

We hope this was helpful. The coles notes? Pitch rate matters less than you might think. There are clear trends for some strains (Voss and Hornindal) but not others (Arset and Ebbegarden).

 

[Jokester]

I am already dealing with a yeast cake that is maybe 3 different yeasts - and these are just what I pitched. If any was left unflocculated in these non filtered beers I am putting in - and I'll bet there are, I'll have 4 yeasts minimum in each bottle, likely more.
How would the voss kevik work into that mix ?
Again just so you dont have to read my other threads/posts - I'm hyper fermenting with amg and starting with a beer. Basically the target is 0 carbs, so far used EC1118, turbo 24 and another that's good for 28% supposedly, and successfully got them to the low single digits per 12oz with higher than 10% abv.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[jaymosbeershack]

If you run hot, the kveik would do most of the work quickly, but the other yeast may throw out off flavors from being too hot for their comfort. If you run cool, I don't think the kveik would make much of a difference for you as it is neutral at lower emps.

I am already dealing with a yeast cake that is maybe 3 different yeasts - and these are just what I pitched. If any was left unflocculated in these non filtered beers I am putting in - and I'll bet there are, I'll have 4 yeasts minimum in each bottle, likely more.
How would the voss kevik work into that mix ?
Again just so you dont have to read my other threads/posts - I'm hyper fermenting with amg and starting with a beer. Basically the target is 0 carbs, so far used EC1118, turbo 24 and another that's good for 28% supposedly, and successfully got them to the low single digits per 12oz with higher than 10% abv.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Albionwood]

I'm hyper fermenting with amg and starting with a beer.

Meaning, you are opening a finished beer, adding the enzyme and pitching new yeast, and re-fermenting the beer? If that's the process, I wonder how you avoid oxidation. I also kind of wonder why you are doing this - can you explain what your goal is and why this method? It's a new one on me, though I suppose it's somewhat like the practice of pitching a secondary culture (typically Brett) into a beer after primary but before bottling.

To get to zero residual sugars, I'd suggest a diastaticus yeast (like 3711) or a Brett, both of which can metabolize more complex sugars if the enzyme doesn't break everything down. They are also more likely to add noticeable flavor, especially the Bretts.
Jovaru might be an interesting choice.

 

[Jokester]

Meaning, you are opening a finished beer, adding the enzyme and pitching new yeast, and re-fermenting the beer? If that's the process, I wonder how you avoid oxidation. I also kind of wonder why you are doing this - can you explain what your goal is and why this method? It's a new one on me, though I suppose it's somewhat like the practice of pitching a secondary culture (typically Brett) into a beer after primary but before bottling.

To get to zero residual sugars, I'd suggest a diastaticus yeast (like 3711) or a Brett, both of which can metabolize more complex sugars if the enzyme doesn't break everything down. They are also more likely to add noticeable flavor, especially the Bretts.
Jovaru might be an interesting choice.

I'll look at those yeasts. But I want to make a near 0 carb and likely 30%+ abv beer that doesn't eliminate the hop flavors. I also am to lazy to start with a true grain and a wort and am able to get cheap beer, in fact I get some very high end beer very cheap so I'm happy to experiment for now. I've made a good many dammmm good 30%ers.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Obese Chess]

Ah, I was just popping in to ask a question about Voss!

I'm fermenting a pretty simple pale ale right now - 10lb Chevallier Heritge, 2oz Willamette hops. On Sunday afternoon, I pitched one packet of Imperial A43 into the wort at 80 and then let it ride. Normally I ferment in my garage, which stays around 65-70 most of the year. However, we've suddenly had an unseasonably cold couple of days and the temp dropped down into the mid-thirties outside, bringing the garage to the low fifties and the fermenter into the high fifties, low sixties. Last night the thermometer on the side of the bucket read 58 (!). I've since moved it into a bathroom, the only other room in the house with no windows, which is closer to 68 right now, bucket temp is back up to around 66. Obviously what's done is done and I won't worry too much as a result, I'm just curious what kind of results people have had, if any, with fermenting Voss at such low temperatures.

 

[Obese Chess]

Update on the above: kept it at 66-68F and hit FG in 5 days. Unstoppable.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I see White Labs at last have the "usual" kveiks - WLP519-Stranda, WLP520-Sigmund & WLP521-Hornindal are now available on https://yeastman.com/_store (under Vault strains) as well as WLP518 Opshaug (under Speciality/Belgian strains).

 

[Albionwood]

Update on the above: kept it at 66-68F and hit FG in 5 days. Unstoppable.

That's interesting - several people (self included) have experienced varying degrees of stalling when the temperature fell. Others have not. There is still much to learn from experience with these strains.

What was your OG and FG?

 

[Paul_Aris]

Hard for me to ferment anything over 70 degrees. My basement is usally between 65-70. Does this yeast ferment quick at that temp?