Voss Kveik yeast is a monster

[NobleNewt]

I got the beer back up into the 80s but it didn’t really restart. Probably should have roused. Finished at 1014. Kegged it today and will see how it tastes when carbed.

Saved two quarts of slurry, will wash and dry one and repitch the other into an IPA - and will try to keep that up around 90F.

Same on my end. Actually ended up stirring mine with a sanitized spoon and it didn’t budge. I think my mash temp at 156 was enough to create a far less fermentable wort.

I’ll pop a bottle tonight.. 9 days post bottling and see how it is.

EDIT: Bottle popped. Lightly carbonated, but still not quite there. Still delicious!

 

[Albionwood]

I think my mash temp at 156 was enough to create a far less fermentable wort.

I doubt that has much to do with it. You get a little more body with a higher mash temp, but in terms of gravity points there isn't really that much difference between 152 and 156. At least in my experience. I think your grist has a lot more to do with it: you have 8% Crystal and 12% unmalted grains. That's going to leave a relatively high finishing gravity with most yeast. (Bretts and diastaticus excepted)

My grain bill was 82% Pale Ale, 8% CaraMunich II, 5% Brown, and 5% Midnight Wheat.

I think we have more to learn about the thermal performance of this yeast...

 

[NobleNewt]

I doubt that has much to do with it. You get a little more body with a higher mash temp, but in terms of gravity points there isn't really that much difference between 152 and 156. At least in my experience. I think your grist has a lot more to do with it: you have 8% Crystal and 12% unmalted grains. That's going to leave a relatively high finishing gravity with most yeast. (Bretts and diastaticus excepted)

My grain bill was 82% Pale Ale, 8% CaraMunich II, 5% Brown, and 5% Midnight Wheat.

I think we have more to learn about the thermal performance of this yeast...

You might be right. I’ve got some process checks to do moving forward, so there’s something to be learned from that as well as the yeast. My next brew will be a juicy IPA that I plan to mash lower, plus I’ll pay more attention to my ferm temperature. I'm not entirely confident my digital thermometer is properly calibrated either.. If it was reading 2 degrees low, that would make my mash 158+..

I still think that my mash temperature had something to do with it. I know that it's a contentious subject with homebrewers. Some perceive zero difference in attenuation or body between 145 and 156 while others are vehemently adamant that it makes a huge difference.

The science would say that I would have had very little to no beta amylase conversion with that higher temperature leaving lots of long chain unfermentable sugars in the wort. From what I can tell from others' experience with Voss, the yeast likes a very fermentable wort and will chew down through anything it can. If I had pitched an English ale strain, would it have attenuated more? Makes me wonder.

 

[Albionwood]

I still think that my mash temperature had something to do with it. I know that it's a contentious subject with homebrewers. Some perceive zero difference in attenuation or body between 145 and 156 while others are vehemently adamant that it makes a huge difference.

The science would say that I would have had very little to no beta amylase conversion with that higher temperature leaving lots of long chain unfermentable sugars in the wort. From what I can tell from others' experience with Voss, the yeast likes a very fermentable wort and will chew down through anything it can. If I had pitched an English ale strain, would it have attenuated more? Makes me wonder.

I think you may be right, and worse yet, I may have been wrong... or at least not entirely correct. My mashtun doesn’t hold heat all that well, so if I mash in at 156 it won’t stay there. Today I mashed in at 156 and an hour later it was 152 along the walls and 154 in the center. So my experience isn’t really very applicable to this question.

English ale strains can be low attenuators too (ESB), or medium-high (Nottingham, 007).

The kegged and carbed Porter is turning into a decent beer, though not what I intended. It drinks more like a sweet stout, and it does have a little orange character.

 

[bleme]

That’s weird. I thought the whole point of Kveik yeast is to ferment hot and fast.

Nope. Kveik, like most yeasts, has a LOT of desirable attributes for multiple situations including (but not limited to):
- Nearly impossible to kill
- Stores forever
- No worries about under-pitching
- Sometimes 70F is just easier to maintain
- 1 gram can last you a lifetime

 

[NobleNewt]

I think you may be right, and worse yet, I may have been wrong... or at least not entirely correct. My mashtun doesn’t hold heat all that well, so if I mash in at 156 it won’t stay there. Today I mashed in at 156 and an hour later it was 152 along the walls and 154 in the center. So my experience isn’t really very applicable to this question.

English ale strains can be low attenuators too (ESB), or medium-high (Nottingham, 007).

The kegged and carbed Porter is turning into a decent beer, though not what I intended. It drinks more like a sweet stout, and it does have a little orange character.

I don’t know, but I have to think that traditional English strains may have a bit more ability to work through longer chain sugars as that’s typical to most English ales. Maybe the yeasts evolved over time to get through a less fermentable wort?

On the other hand, seems as though Kveik strains were “bred” to eat through highly fermentable wort. Nothing scientific about those thoughts, but thoughts nevertheless.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don’t know, but I have to think that traditional English strains may have a bit more ability to work through longer chain sugars as that’s typical to most English ales.

You can't generalise about "traditional British strains" as individuals, as they were always, always (with the odd insignificant exception) part of multistrains which allowed eg Windsor-type strains to let Nottingham-type strains do the final attenuation, whilst contributing flavours that Notty could not produce.

And also commercial British brewers used technology such as squares or double drops to rouse and aerate yeast, it may not be surprising that people don't get such good attenuation (or such good flavour) if they don't do that in a homebrew setting. Or indeed in the CCVs of modern microbreweries.

 

[Albionwood]

I don’t know, but I have to think that traditional English strains may have a bit more ability to work through longer chain sugars as that’s typical to most English ales. Maybe the yeasts evolved over time to get through a less fermentable wort?

Not necessarily. The Fuller's strain (WLP002, WY1968, Lallemand ESB) is infamous for low attenuation because it cannot ferment maltotriose.

 

[NobleNewt]

Not necessarily. The Fuller's strain (WLP002, WY1968, Lallemand ESB) is infamous for low attenuation because it cannot ferment maltotriose.

It was worth a shot.

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

Around the second gen mine smelled like feces and even 2 of the 5.5 abv beers feels like the day after a 12 pack of steel reserve. Never had this happen in the past

 

[ESBrewer]

smelled like feces and feels like the day after a 12 pack of steel reserve

Sounds you've captured the true rural Voss character & aroma from Gjernes farmstead

 

[NobleNewt]

Around the second gen mine smelled like feces and even 2 of the 5.5 abv beers feels like the day after a 12 pack of steel reserve. Never had this happen in the past

Bit does it taste like feces? That’s the big question!

 

[Albionwood]

Brewed a late-hopped Pale Ale on NYD and fermented (with washed yeast from the Porter a month ago) at 90+ for 4 days. Forgot to add any clarifying agent in the boil, as I so often do... and the beer is super-hazy, not what I wanted. Chilled it to 45 F and still looks like orange juice. Tastes harsh from all the suspended matter. I've added gelatin and have it chilling at 34F now so we will see if it clears in time to serve on Friday... seems unlikely though.

Recipe for 10 gallons: 7 kg Pale Ale (67%) 3 kg Munich II (28%) 500 g Crystal 40L (5%)
28 g Columbus FWH, 60 minute boil, 70 g each Columbus, Simcoe, and HBC342 at 1 minute and another 70 g each of the same hops in the whirlpool for 20 minutes at about 165F. Obviously too much late hops gave me a hazy NEIPA (not my favorite style) instead of a hoppy APA.

Lesson: You can ferment out in a short time, but getting a clear beer is another matter. For a quick turnaround I should have stuck with a more traditional hopping schedule.

On the plus side, the yeast dried the beer out nicely - from 1050 to 1010, can't argue with that.

 

[Albionwood]

[QUOTE="I've added gelatin and have it chilling at 34F now so we will see if it clears in time to serve on Friday....[/QUOTE]

Well I’m happy to report that it did clear up enough to serve last Friday and the beer was well received. It’s basically a slightly hazy IPA, bitterness is just right and the hop flavor comes through even though there isn’t much aroma. Perfectly quaffable beer.

So this stuff really can do great work on short notice.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

15 hours after pitching...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've said elsewhere but probably worth mentioning in this thread that the Lallemand dry version of Voss is now available at UK retailers, at a price just above Lallemand New England; I don't know what their plans are for rolling it out elsewhere in the world.

 

[youngdh]

I did a 3 gallon batch of a dry Irish Stout last week fermenting with with 5 ml of a 2nd generation Voss Kveik slurry. I pitched on a Saturday evening holding fermentation at 95F. By Monday morning my gravity was at 1.015 (target was 1.013). By Thursday gravity hadn’t changed so kegged. Still waiting for it to carb but what went into the keg tasted great with just a slight hint of orange notes. Less than 48 hours to complete fermentation with no diacetyl rest required is awesome!

 

[ESBrewer]

Lallemand dry version of Voss is now available at UK retailers, at a price just above Lallemand New England; I don't know what their plans are for rolling it out elsewhere in the world.

It now appears on the list of Swedish & Central European retailers, too. I might give it a shot in the summer when it gets hot.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

I did a 3 gallon batch of a dry Irish Stout last week fermenting with with 5 ml of a 2nd generation Voss Kveik slurry. I pitched on a Saturday evening holding fermentation at 95F. By Monday morning my gravity was at 1.015 (target was 1.013). By Thursday gravity hadn’t changed so kegged. Still waiting for it to carb but what went into the keg tasted great with just a slight hint of orange notes. Less than 48 hours to complete fermentation with no diacetyl rest required is awesome!

Ridiculous. I can't see me using a different yeast again. With the added bonus that my slurry will always be fresh and healthy!

 

[NobleNewt]

Speaking of slurry... I've been reading a little bit about top crop harvesting yeast, which I know can be done for any yeast, but I was wondering what everyone was doing in order to continue to use their Voss strains..

I did a vitality starter yesterday evening just to wake up my yeast. I plan on doing a hoppy American Wheat-ish beer with lots of late addition hops, so I want as much of the fruity juiciness from this strain as possible so I plan on underpitching and letting those characteristics come out.

What I was wondering is, could someone conceivably top crop a starter and use it for a future brew or would there not be enough yeast in that cropping? I plan on top cropping my actual fermentation, but when I saw the krausen this morning on my starter, it made me wonder if that was a good practice or if it would even matter.

Also, how much top cropped yeast is enough to put back for future brews? I've read that many brewers will harvest a quart worth of top crop, but that seems a little excessive.

 

[bleme]

Speaking of slurry... I've been reading a little bit about top crop harvesting yeast, which I know can be done for any yeast, but I was wondering what everyone was doing in order to continue to use their Voss strains..

Best practice is to continue to harvest the same way the strain was developed. In the case of Voss, it is harvested from the bottom.
http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/farmhouse/kveik.html#kv1

 

[NobleNewt]

Best practice is to continue to harvest the same way the strain was developed. In the case of Voss, it is harvested from the bottom.
http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/farmhouse/kveik.html#kv1

Solid! I didn't know that page existed on Lars' blog.. So a bottom harvested yeast would be a more conventional harvest after fermentation, correct?

 

[greenjam]

I brew a pale ale Saturday and pitch voss that I keep in a jar in the fridge (use 90% and fill with fresh most for the next batch and let it ferment), never had any problem, this is my sixth or seventh brew, but yesterday arrive at home and the place was smelling like a movie theater.
Took a sample, tasted good but smelled very intensely popcorn and it's very cloudy.
I'm now fermenting at 17°c / 63F, pitched at 26c.
I think this may be appening because of the low fermentation temp.
As this appened to anyone? Will it clean up? Any suggestion?

 

[NobleNewt]

I brew a pale ale Saturday and pitch voss that I keep in a jar in the fridge (use 90% and fill with fresh most for the next batch and let it ferment), never had any problem, this is my sixth or seventh brew, but yesterday arrive at home and the place was smelling like a movie theater.
Took a sample, tasted good but smelled very intensely popcorn and it's very cloudy.
I'm now fermenting at 17°c / 63F, pitched at 26c.
I think this may be appening because of the low fermentation temp.
As this appened to anyone? Will it clean up? Any suggestion? View attachment 662299

Sounds like you’re smelling what diacetyl tastes like. As for it smelling that way, I have no idea. Maybe you’re smelling a hint of sulphur? Did you use nutrient in your brew?

I’m not one to identify off flavors, but those would be my thoughts.

 

[bleme]

Solid! I didn't know that page existed on Lars' blog.. So a bottom harvested yeast would be a more conventional harvest after fermentation, correct?

Correct. According to Lars, that would be 3.5 days after pitch.

 

[NobleNewt]

Correct. According to Lars, that would be 3.5 days after pitch.

Understood. But harvesting that yeast after fermentation is completed wouldn't be a bad practice necessarily, would it? I don't have a conical fermenter to be able to take that harvest out from the bottom unless there's another method.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

Understood. But harvesting that yeast after fermentation is completed wouldn't be a bad practice necessarily, would it? I don't have a conical fermenter to be able to take that harvest out from the bottom unless there's another method.

I do mine after fermentation and have had zero issues. I find it hard to believe such a robust yeast can't wait a few weeks...

 

[NobleNewt]

I do mine after fermentation and have had zero issues. I find it hard to believe such a robust yeast can't wait a few weeks...

Right. I suppose, though, it may have to do with harvesting the most viable healthy yeast? To me that seems like it could be a little bit detrimental. I always assumed that having some dead cells along with a fractional amount of trub would help keep nutrient levels high during storage. I usually harvest the half gallon or so of trub into a 1 gallon glass jug, top up with some clean water as needed, give it a good shake and decant the yeast cells off.

One thing I've noticed over the past few days of my Omega Voss yeast starter is that the yeast is highly flocculant. I mean, it sticks like glue to my flask and globs up like nobody's business. The oatmeal stout I made with the stuff a while back is crystal clear.. No haze or gunk in the bottles whatsoever and that's doing everything I could to mess that brew up!

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

Right. I suppose, though, it may have to do with harvesting the most viable healthy yeast? To me that seems like it could be a little bit detrimental. I always assumed that having some dead cells along with a fractional amount of trub would help keep nutrient levels high during storage. I usually harvest the half gallon or so of trub into a 1 gallon glass jug, top up with some clean water as needed, give it a good shake and decant the yeast cells off.

See my post above (nr 165) with the voss after 15 hours - krausen already been and gone. Seems nice and viable and healthy to me

 

[NobleNewt]

See my post above (nr 165) with the voss after 15 hours - krausen already been and gone. Seems nice and viable and healthy to me

Yeah!

I pitched my glob of yeast into my viability starter and stuff was moving within 30 minutes. Lars even says it's not unusual to see activity within that timeframe.