Vienna Lager Feedback

[BeerLoverHere]

I am planning on doing my first Vienna Lager. Has anyone tried this decoction process cut and pasted from a BYO article? I am new to a decoction mash, but want to try this out. This technique is a little different than the standard procedure and might be best for my first time. The method below is less labor intensive as you don't have to constantly stir mash on stove top as you have only the run-off and not the actual mash for each step (grain and water w/different ratio amounts depending on each step in a separate pot on stove 2-3 times before mash-out).

Heat 1.5 gals. of water to 132° F, crack and mix in malts and malted wheat. The mash should settle at 121° F. Hold 30 minutes, then remove 3 qts. of liquid from the mash and boil it 15 minutes. Stir heated mash back into the mash tun. This should raise the whole mash to 137° F or so. Hold another 30 minutes, then remove 3 qts. again and bring to a boil. Boil this 15 minutes, add it back to the mash tun, raising the whole to about 152° F. Hold here for 60 minutes, then lauter and sparge with 2 gals. of 168° F water.

This is my grain bill if anyone is interested in critiquing for a 6.25 gal batch:

5.5# Vienna
4# Light Munich
2# Pilsner
0.25# Caramunich 40L (for color)
0.5oz Black Patent (for color)

My SRM comes out a bit on the low side, however I am thinking the various steps/boiling should darken it up quite a bit. Hallertau HOPS (24 IBU) and Munich Lager YEAST (4.8%). Everything comes out true to the style when I enter recipe. Just need some feedback on decoction process.

Thx for reading this far!

 

[wobdee]

Seems like a strange decoction process. I thought you were suppose to decoct the thick portions of the mash not the wort?

Another decoction process which is easier and less time consuming is the Schmitz process. I've had great success with it in about a dozen brews.

 

[Yooper]

No, I would definitely NOT do that.

There are a couple of reasons. One, when you decoct, you want the thickest decoction you can pull, with just enough liquid to boil it without scorching the grain. The reasons are that tannins can be extracted when the pH is higher than 6 and the temperature is higher than 170 or so. Having the majority of the decoction be grain ensures the pH is not over 6. Also, the enzymes for conversion are mostly in the liquid. If you boil much of the liquid from the mash, you denature the enzymes before the mash is fully converted.

I haven't seen that BYO article with the suggestion to mash that way, so I don't know the rationale behind it. It definitely is not something that would be recommended by people like me!

 

[Yooper]

As far as a recipe for Vienna lager, the best recipe I've ever done is: 100% Vienna malt. No crystal, no Munich malt, etc.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f59/brads-vienna-lager-80356/

 

[BeerLoverHere]

Thanks fellas for your input! Got some decisions to make. Want to decoct, but still need to research/read some on it. Below is the link to the article I read. Didn't realize it was from '97 until just now. I trust your advice to not try this method.

http://byo.com/stories/item/407-cafe-vienna-lager

 

[Yooper]

Thanks fellas for your input! Got some decisions to make. Want to decoct, but still need to research/read some on it. Below is the link to the article I read. Didn't realize it was from '97 until just now. I trust your advice to not try this method.

http://byo.com/stories/item/407-cafe-vienna-lager

Fellas?!?!? Geez.

 

[paulegli]

If you haven't done so already, read the BrauKaiser wiki pages that describe decoction mashing and watch his YouTube videos. I followed his Hochkurz Double Decoction method to make the doppelbock recipe from "Brewing Classic Styles" earlier this year. The process is labor-intensive like all decoctions, but the beer came out great with a nice malty flavor and deep brown color. Just make sure you have enough propane on hand for all the decoction steps plus a 90-minute boil.