Very Strong Yeast Taste

[Countrysquire]

Brewed a partial mash Texas Bock recipe from AHS a couple weeks ago. The first five batches that I've brewded from my local brewer supply have been great, and this was my first to use wet yeast (White Labs bock yeast). The first mistake was that I didn't use a starter and it took about 30 hours to see visible signs of the fermentation. Other than shaking the carboy a few times to try to help the yeast get going, I did nothing but let it sit at 72 degrees. After 8 days, the gravity was 1.010 (OG was 1.050), which was just what the recipe said that it should be. At this point I moved it directly to a keg, moved it immediately to my kegarator and let it begin carbonating. I do realize that this was too quick to keg, but have done this before and the beer was fine. Plus, both my kegs were empty, so what choice did I have!?

Anyway, the first few glasses tasted terrible with a very strong yeast smell and taste. I was hoping that there was some trub that found its way into the keg and some of that was being sucked up. There was no improvement after a couple days, so I decided to rack it to a second keg in hopes that an excess of trub was the problem. When I popped the top on the keg, the strong yeast smell greeted me. After racking, there was maybe 1/4" or so of trub in the bottom but this didn't really solve anything. The taste is slightly better out of the new keg, with the odor making it really tough to drink out of a glass.

At this point all I can do i hope that time will help. Any thoughts on this? Should I leave it stored cold or move it out of the kegarator and back to the 72 degree pantry?

Thanks!

 

[brrman]

White Labs Bock Yeast - WLP833 - is a lager yeast.

If that is in fact what you used, it should be lagered so that the yeast can fall from suspension. Did you ferment it at 72 degrees??? The optimum temp for WLP833 is 48F - 55F.

 

[Countrysquire]

I did indeed use WLP833 at 72 degrees. I actually called AHS after I received the order and asked about the yeast, I was told (very condescendingly I might add) that this is what they recommend and that it would work as a steam beer.

 

[Johnny_Crunch]

No matter what yeast you used you should have left it way longer than 8 days. I don't touch mine for 4 weeks. You have a very green beer is what I would guess and it hasn't had time to reach it's full potential.

 

[Johnny_Crunch]

If you have already chilled it I wouldn't remove it from the cold personally.

 

[brrman]

yeah - the beer is definitely green. My guess is you also have off flavors because of the fermentation temps as well... Much of it may clear up after a few weeks, and like Johnny_crunch suggested - keep it cold and let it age for 2-4 weeks before you try it again.

 

[Countrysquire]

Thanks guys. I'll just leave it in the kegarator and hope that time fixes it. I'm assuming that the yeast is still in suspension. There was a lot of trub visible in the bottom of the carboy before any signs of fermentation, which I found unusual. Swirling the carboy around several times likely didn't help much either.

Each beer that I've brewed so far has a different odor while fermenting, but this one was much stronger than any of the others, plus it seemed to keep the pantry stunk up for much longer. Nothing about the brew seemed normal to me.

In the order with the Texas bock was a NB 1554 clone recipe kit which I brewed a few days later, using a starter with the WL lager yeast which was perculating nicely after 8 hours. I won't be touching it for another few weeks.

 

[Justibone]

I did indeed use WLP833 at 72 degrees. I actually called AHS after I received the order and asked about the yeast, I was told (very condescendingly I might add) that this is what they recommend and that it would work as a steam beer.

Is that Austin Homebrew? Yeah, last time I called with an issue from my order they were pretty brusque. I don't know what's going on, but in this former customer's opinion that's not the optimal attitude to have with new brewers.

I won't be messing with Austin anymore; my LHBS may be a bit snotty, too, but they're also well-stocked and there's no shipping charge or wait to take it home and brew. Plus, a local brewery that does growler fills is *right* next door to LHBS, soooo....

 

[goetzUM]

I'm also assuming that fermenting the yeast at such high temps caused a lot of off flavors including diacetyl. I don't think that leaving it will do much at this point. The yeast may fall out of suspension, but they're not going to clean up all the diacetyl and other off flavors they created in the beer.

If you're really determined to clean up the taste, bring the keg back to warm temps and put in a heavy fermenting ale yeast (dry yeast will work as long as you hydrate it) into the keg and leave it for two weeks. The yeast will finish fermentation and clean up some of those off flavors before settling to the bottom of the keg.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I guess you learned not to trust AHS. Sorry they caused you to brew your beer wrong.

Go ahead and lager it for a few weeks in the keg.

 

[Johnny_Crunch]

I'm also assuming that fermenting the yeast at such high temps caused a lot of off flavors including diacetyl. I don't think that leaving it will do much at this point. The yeast may fall out of suspension, but they're not going to clean up all the diacetyl and other off flavors they created in the beer.

If you're really determined to clean up the taste, bring the keg back to warm temps and put in a heavy fermenting ale yeast (dry yeast will work as long as you hydrate it) into the keg and leave it for two weeks. The yeast will finish fermentation and clean up some of those off flavors before settling to the bottom of the keg.

You should not add ale yeast and leave it in the keg. Put it back in the bucket if you make that move.

 

[Justibone]

You should not add ale yeast and leave it in the keg. Put it back in the bucket if you make that move.

Why not?

(I'm new to kegging.)

 

[Yooper]

You should not add ale yeast and leave it in the keg. Put it back in the bucket if you make that move.

Why not? I wouldn't transfer it. I wouldn't add ale yeast at this point, either, since the beer is already fermented, but I wondered why the advice is to not add yeast to a beer in a keg? People ferment in kegs all the time.

 

[goetzUM]

I think it's okay to add yeast to the keg. If you give the yeast enough time to finish and then settle out, you're going to end up with all your yeast at the bottom of the keg, which happens anyway. You may have a little additional yeast, but the first glass or so should get rid of that settled yeast.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I guess you learned not to trust AHS. Sorry they caused you to brew your beer wrong.

Go ahead and lager it for a few weeks in the keg.

The person that used to answer the phone has been removed from answering the phone. Sorry if there are any bad feelings. It certainly was not my intention.

Any recipe that calls for lagering we use lager yeast. Lots of people that do not have lagering capabilities order them anyway. I have instructed the employees to sell lager yeast even though they will be fermenting at room temperature.

Chris White explained to me in person that the flavor of the finished beer will taste closer to what it is supposed to taste like if you use lager yeast at room temperature, than if you used ale yeast for a lager beer. Ale yeasts have a lot of fruity flavor. Fermenting lager yeast at room temperature will bring out a little fruitiness but not as much as an ale yeast.

The op didn't follow the recipe instructions and he is drinking green beer. Nothing that aging wont fix. The instructions detail how to lager. They also have instructions on fermenting at room temerature if you ordered a lager kit but you don't plan on lagering. The instructions were not followed for either option. The beer will still turn out fine if it is just aged.

I will gladly replace the kit if the customer is still not happy with the kit even after aging. We are just that kind of store.

We have a new person answering the phones that is fully qualified to answer your questions.

Forrest

 

[Countrysquire]

Forrest (and others),

Thanks for all the responses. I would have called AHS and asked about what went wrong or if it is simply green (because of the lager yeast?) instead of posting it here, but after calling and simply asking about one ingredient in a recipe kit that I received, only to be spoken to like a seven year old, that didn't seem like an option that I wanted to pursue. I hope this change in personnel was recent, because it was only 3 weeks ago that I called.

The reviews for this recipe kit on the AHS site are very good, so I don't think there's a problem with the ingredients. This was my first experience with White Labs yeast and I guess that I missed the part of the instructions which told me to make a starter. At this point, it seems like my best option is to simply let it continue to age. Will it make much difference if the aging is done in the kegerator or at room temperature?

I'll report back in a couple weeks to give an update.

Thanks,
Bobby

 

[Johnny_Crunch]

I believe it will age slower in the fridge but it will still age.

 

[Justibone]

I hope this change in personnel was recent, because it was only 3 weeks ago that I called.

My poor experience on the phone was about that same timeframe, too... it was when they had a special on Island Mist kits with no shipping charge.

The kit was leaking when I opened the shipping box, and the guy told me to soak the juice bag in campden. Not a bad idea, seems to have worked, it's fermenting fine with no infection, but he wasn't very helpful. Sounded harried. I don't blame AHS for not wanting to eat the loss on a kit and also on shipping three times (my house, back to them, my house again)... but the people skills were a bit lacking. I know I can be difficult, but I wasn't being a donkey-hole that day (I thought I wasn't, anyways), so I didn't know where the attitude was coming from. Maybe a bunch of kits were leaking or something. *shrug* I have a saying, "S.E.P. - somebody else's problem".

If I get a leaky kit from my LHBS I'll know before I get in the car, so I'm going LHBS from here on out. Plus, it's good to keep my cash in my community. Best of luck to AHS and the guys.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

My poor experience on the phone was about that same timeframe, too... it was when they had a special on Island Mist kits with no shipping charge.

The kit was leaking when I opened the shipping box, and the guy told me to soak the juice bag in campden. Not a bad idea, seems to have worked, it's fermenting fine with no infection, but he wasn't very helpful. Sounded harried. I don't blame AHS for not wanting to eat the loss on a kit and also on shipping three times (my house, back to them, my house again)... but the people skills were a bit lacking. I know I can be difficult, but I wasn't being a donkey-hole that day (I thought I wasn't, anyways), so I didn't know where the attitude was coming from. Maybe a bunch of kits were leaking or something. *shrug* I have a saying, "S.E.P. - somebody else's problem".

If I get a leaky kit from my LHBS I'll know before I get in the car, so I'm going LHBS from here on out. Plus, it's good to keep my cash in my community. Best of luck to AHS and the guys.

The person you are referring to has been banned from answering customers questions. This ban was in place last week. Sorry you had a problem.

If I would have answered the phone a new kit would be on its way to you.

We stand behind our products. Even though the kit you have will probably be fine, let me send you another kit. That is how I want the customer service from my store to be.

I am sure you were not a problem on the phone, the solution to the problem is not how I want it to be handled.

I would hope that even though we are an internet business to you, you could give us the chance to make it right. If you went to a Home Depot and you had a similar customer service issue, you would ask to speak to a supervisor and it would get resolved and you would still shop there. You cant assume the one person giving bad advice represents the company's stand on the matter.

Please PM me your name so I can look up your order and send you the new kit.

Forrest

P.S. Seriously, if you have a reasonable concern, and you are not pleased with the resolution, lets chat and work it out. I am here for you guys. I will take care of you. You can email me directly, but please have my staff handle the situation first. [email protected]

 

[Justibone]

Thanks, but no. It's fine. It was good advice and it worked.

You are going the extra mile. I appreciate that, but I figured I'd tell you what happened for your business' sake. I don't want another kit (don't have a fermenter for it, and I don't know how long it'll take us to drink the one we've got going).

Cheers!

(SWMBO says: she was disappointed by the original advice, but cheered by the offer to fix it.)

 

[Countrysquire]

Thanks again for replying Forrest. Some people don't realize how tough it can be running a business when you can't supervise your employees 24/7, someone's having a bad day, etc. The best measure of a company IMHO is how they respond to the inevitable problems that arise, and yours is first class, so this certainly won't be my only purchase from AHS.

Also, hopefully I didn't imply that the recipe kit was a problem because that was not my intention and I tried to make that clear. This was my screw up, not AHS's, so I certainly don't feel entitled to a replacement kit, just looking for advice on how best to age it. We'll see how it is after a couple weeks more aging in the kegerator.

Bobby

 

[Justibone]

This was my screw up, not AHS's, so I certainly don't feel entitled to a replacement kit, just looking for advice on how best to age it.

Yeah, as soon as I get into liquid yeasts (have done all dry up to now) I'm going to need to figure out a starter system. Wish I could use the starters from work! My labmate often has four 2L Erlenmeyers cooking up E. coli simultaneously, then again, if E. coli has been in the Erly's I definitely don't want to use those...

 

[Countrysquire]

UPDATE:

OK, two weeks more have passed and I can give an update. The yeast taste and odor has improved by 50% and it's to the point where I can drink it even though it's not exactly great. I still believe that had I used a starter that things would have been different. Wish the recipe instructions would have mentioned that...

A few days after the bock was brewed, I did a 1554 clone that I purchased from AHS at the same time. Thanks to this forum, I knew to make a starter with the wet White Labs yeast. The fermentation was visible after just a few hours (as opposed to 3 days with the other batch). Just tapped the keg today and it is excellent.

Bobby

 

[Justibone]

Happy ending... mostly. Sorry 'bout yer bum batch.

 

[Countrysquire]

It looks like I'm going to end up pouring this down the drain. It's almost 7 weeks old and the strong yeast taste just won't go away. Every other batch of beer that I've brewed has been great, including a 1554 clone from AHS. I'm going to attribute this to bad yeast and just move on...

 

[dave5155]

Before you decide to dump it why don't you try using gelatin to knock the yeast out of suspension. It's very cheap and easy and it could make all the difference in the world. Just search the site for "gelatin finings" for directions if you've never done it before.

 

[Countrysquire]

Thanks Dave, that might be worth a try as I have nothing to lose. Reading the other thread asking about tossing a beer made me realize that I may have the same problem as I what I have characterized as a 'yeast' taste could also be called a 'band-aid' taste.

 

[Countrysquire]

I have sent a PM to Austin Home Brew a couple days ago looking for additional guidance, but have not received a response. Any other suggestions or should I just dump it and move on?

 

[Justibone]

Did you try the gelatin? You can buy it at the homebrew store, or even unflavored gelatin at the grocery store. There are some threads about how to do it.

If he didn't get back to you yet, did you try calling Austin's?

 

[Countrysquire]

Yep, did the gelatin a few days ago and it didn't change anything.

 

[Justibone]

Okay, call Austin, I'd say. If it's "band-aid" it might be unfixable.