Very frustrating 3rd and 4th brews! How to recover?

[jrgtr42]

Even after brewing for 15 or so years now, I don’t really stress too much about gravities, as long as it’s pretty close to expected 5 points is well within my margin of error.
Same with volume, plus or minus a quart or so.
I generally don’t mess with things too much, on the fly if the boil off is too slow I’ll up the heat, and vice versa.
If it ends up too low of a volume I may top off; I try to target about 5.5 gallons into my fermenter.
The trick with brewing, as others have mentioned, is that there’s a lot of variables that affect the results. The batch of grain / hops, the water itself, the weather conditions…

 

[marc1]

OK, so I am going to admit I did not read all the posts, so please disregard if this has already been said. When I first started, I got all worked up about Gravity numbers and not hitting them. If I was off even one point I was pissed. Now, after doing this a few years I realize that even off it is still beer. I have been off as much as 5 points in my OG and could give two rats tails less. It still tasted good. Also, if you can sparge, or get a separate pot and heat that water up to about 170 and soak your bag in that after the mash for about 10 to 15 mins you might grab a few extra points. I had a 5 gallon stock pot that I got with my starter set that I would use. Basically, get the water up to about 170, set your bag in it, slowly, and keep an eye on your water level in the pot as it will rise with the volume of the grains. Let is steep for about 15 mins and pour that into your boil kettle. Most software programs will give you an idea of how to split the water, but I generally do 4 to 5 gallons of mash and then add 3 to 4 gallons of sparge from the cooler after it has steeped for a 5 to 5.5 gallon batch. I have found that in most cases I am within 2 or 3 points, sometimes even going over the OG. But, once again, I think you are getting worked up over something very small. Keep going, take good notes and try and work on being consistent with your process. Once you have the consistency, you can adjust your grain amounts to hit whatever your OG is supposed to be. In case it helps, I use Brewfather for all my recipes and add and subtract my grain to get what I think is the OG I am looking for. But, once again, I rarely hit whatever the recipe says. Most of the time it is over or under by a few points. To me, that works as in the end it is beer. Good luck and keep at it.

I agree, missing gravity by a few points is nothing to get flustered over.
When sparging, you do not need to use heated water. Room temp water works fine.

 

[Bobby_M]

View attachment 852013


The hobby started before recipe software with 5 gal batches. Publishing recipes with weights was a pragmatic approach.

Many of those recipes targeted more than five gal (5.25, 5.5 gal) at the end of the boil to account for variations in trub, boil off rate, etc. At the time, there was additional information (often in forum discussion) on how to scale ingredients and how to identify/fix missing information.

Further, books (and magazine) usually have information that includes common assumptions (efficiency percentages, IBU estimation technique, ...).

I hear that professional brewers think in percentages. They use what works.

Recipes with weights seems to work well for those brewing at home. And recipe software can be used quickly convert the recipe into percentages.

If it (recipes using weights) works for people getting started brewing, is a "glitch"?

40+ years of beginners starting with recipes using weights - and generally continuing with the hobby - seems to be working well for all involved. If that's a "mistake/glitch within the norms of the homebrewing hobby", so be it.

It's my opinion, don't take it personally. I stand by it as a mistake purely due to the fact that it causes new brewers unnecessary anxiety about missing numbers and doing something wrong. I understand being pragmatic of course, which is why I offered the advice to increase all the grain weights by 10% for starters to see where he lands.

When I sell all grain recipe kits, I hack this problem in a round about way. When someone selects a normal crush, I assume it's going to be either batch or fly sparged and that instruction sheet calls for 5.75 gallons post boil. If they select an extra fine BIAB crush, I assume lower efficiency and set that to 5.25 gallons into the fermenter.

It's not perfect, but the OGs will be closer together without having to theory dump on a potential beginner.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

theory dump

Meh.

In How To Brew, 4e (June 2017), Palmer poka-yoke'd a solid first brew day for "extract" brewers.

In Speeding Brewing (June 2015), Izett wrote a similar process for BIAB beers.

Can those processes be improved today? yes
Will they? probably not

 

[Bobby_M]

Just because resources exist doesn't mean all first time all grainers (or regular casual brewers) want to go to school. The people that show up on forums like this one are already pre-selected for being more inquisitive. So many people that show up in my store are not like that. They just want to buy a kit and follow a checklist for better or worse.

 

[hotbeer]

Oh damn.. I see the tendency of my mistake now I kind of treat the recipe as the main thing..

Like basicly I should use a recipe for grain type and percentage and everything else is just my eficiency? Brewing the same thing with the same ingredients and just try to be more and more eficient?

Efficiency isn't a grade you make in school. So although you might can achieve better efficiencies, what you strive for is consistency of your processes and know what efficiencies you get with your methods and equipment.

In the mash process, which contains one of the important efficiency numbers. We are concerned with how much starch converted to sugar we extract from the malts. And different mash processes, techniques and how fine or course the malt is milled determine what that number will be for you. So do them the same each time and learn what that number is.

When I find a recipe that I want to make beer for, I put it in my beer making software and see if I come up with the same OG and other numbers given in the recipe. Then I adjust the fermentable amounts up or down to match the OG called for in the recipe.

We generally assume that if we get the same OG with the same ratio of malts, then we are making the same beer. Doesn't matter if I can do it with less or more quantity of malts and other fermentable ingredients.

IBU's and Bitterness can make things a little more fuzzy. But essentially they scale linearly with the volume of beer coming out of the boil kettle as long as the same OG is obtained.

Missing a OG by two points is trivial. Even five points would not concern me unless I'm making the same recipe over and over and my OG is varying widely each time.

 

[worlddivides]

I'd also like to echo what a lot of people have said about not caring about hitting your OG. I have generally just used recipes as a ballpark figure of the basic area I want to be. If I have an estimated OG of 1.055, then I'll be happy if it's anywhere from 1.048 to 1.062. And to be honest, even if it's a little lower, I don't mind. Generally my OG and FG estimates have been pretty accurate. There have been a few times where my FG estimates were way off, though. Probably the biggest example is where I DID hit that 1.055 estimated OG spot on, but I expected the FG to be around 1.003, but it ended up at 0.997 (it was a sour with Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, Pediococcus, etc.). That meant my estimated ABV of 6.83% actually ended up being 7.61%. I thought that was a huge difference at the time, but I've heard and read a lot of people since then say that most people can't really tell a difference of 1% ABV, all other things being the same. It ended up being possibly the best beer I ever made, and it's possible the FG kept getting lower even after I bottled it, though not enough to create bottle bombs or anything like that.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm sensing a "disturbance" (LOL) in "the norms of the homebrewing hobby" (#18)...

Rant: Please stop recommending "How to Brew" to beginners. [...] (/r/homebrewing)

Enjoy! (RDWHAHB, "brew how you like, like what you brew", "get of my lawn" , ...)

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Best quote (so far) from the topic

Never read it, but ...

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(about 12 hours later): OP in that /r/homebrewing topic deleted their posts. If you know reddit, you know where to look next.

 

[corkybstewart]

God damn. Im I chef for my ocupation so Im used if I follow the recipe - everything ends up well.

And I cant say that the recipes are bad. The pale ale is a very reliable source. Sour not so much but I tried using my own brain more. Didint work out so well as I expected.

Recipes are not the issue, technique is what make good beer. We once did a test where 50 or so people brewed the same recipe, with ingredients put together from the same brew store, and the results were stounding when we swapped beers with each other. Every version was different-some were delicious, some were awful. I never did BIAB but the basics apply to any method, especially for new brewers. Attention to cleanliness, especially the sanitary side of things. Preparation is important. Make sure you have everything you need available before you start. i buy twice as much RO water as I think I'll need, I make ice for my chiller well in advance, I have DME in case my mash comes up short on OG, etc. Take notes on everything you do until it becomes automatic. And above all, brew simple beers until it becomes automatic, muscle memory. The more unusual ingredients you use the less control you have over the results.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm sensing a "disturbance" (LOL) in "the norms of the homebrewing hobby" (#18)...

Rant: Please stop recommending "How to Brew" to beginners. [...] (/r/homebrewing)

Enjoy! (RDWHAHB, "brew how you like, like what you brew", "get of my lawn" , ...)

---

Best quote (so far) from the topic

---

(about 12 hours later): OP in that /r/homebrewing topic deleted their posts. If you know reddit, you know where to look next.

Now I'll never get to know what the first post said.

 

[hotbeer]

I'm sensing a "disturbance" (LOL) in "the norms of the homebrewing hobby" (#18)...

Rant: Please stop recommending "How to Brew" to beginners. [...] (/r/homebrewing)

Enjoy! (RDWHAHB, "brew how you like, like what you brew", "get of my lawn" , ...)

---

Best quote (so far) from the topic

---

(about 12 hours later): OP in that /r/homebrewing topic deleted their posts. If you know reddit, you know where to look next.

I didn't read any of the the stuff on the linked site. To me that place is just plain crazy.

However reading the title of the link and doing some imaginative extrapolation of what the writer was thinking...

Perhaps if someone's only answer for a question a beginner has is to read "How to Brew". Then perhaps it's much like when a noob asks a question on the linux forums and everyone answers "RTFM".

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

To me that place is just plain crazy.

The rant was extreme to the point of being comical.

Beyond that, every active (or semi-active) forum has personas to are 'exclusive' to that forum.

 

[JAReeves]

I was and (probably) will be again, a chef. I love playing with ingredients in beer; some days, it's like a mystery box (or walk-in clear-out special of the day). I recommend, if you have not already done so, reading the free PDF of Palmer's "How to Brew." The 4th edition is great, but the basics don't change, and since you are starting like many, myself included, with just a pot and a thermometer, it'll help a lot in working through the process you can control with that equipment.

As has been mentioned, a lot of variables are outside of your control at this time, grain crush, for example. These (and your process with your equipment) are going to affect whether the recipe you use follows the numbers stated or not. As you would with any recipe, take careful notes. When you reproduce that recipe, change one thing and compare notes. Eventually you will upgrade equipment, and then you have to rework your process again. Keep taking notes. I use Brewer's Friend for that, some of my recipes have 2-3 pages of notes tacked to the back of the recipe.

The most critical thing, as it is with food you are serving, is this: does it taste good?

Then you can start asking, did this work as I expected? If not, what should I do for next time to get closer to what I want? If so, can I do it again, and again?

Some of us pursue an elusive .01 of usable extract, or exactly 53.75 IBU's or something else that is very scientific/engineering-based, and that is ok.

Some of us want to make a batch of beer that tastes and smells like our dream beer, or that is exactly what <insert Brewery Name here> made and we fell in love with, and that is ok.

Some are looking for both, or a balance between the two, and that is ok.

All is well. Make beer, play with beer-making. Enjoy the process and the fruits of your labors. As you make more beer, the consistency will come, no matter what you use to make it or the recipe you use.

RDWHAHB

 

[corkybstewart]

I was and (probably) will be again, a chef. I love playing with ingredients in beer; some days, it's like a mystery box (or walk-in clear-out special of the day). I recommend, if you have not already done so, reading the free PDF of Palmer's "How to Brew." The 4th edition is great, but the basics don't change, and since you are starting like many, myself included, with just a pot and a thermometer, it'll help a lot in working through the process you can control with that equipment.

As has been mentioned, a lot of variables are outside of your control at this time, grain crush, for example. These (and your process with your equipment) are going to affect whether the recipe you use follows the numbers stated or not. As you would with any recipe, take careful notes. When you reproduce that recipe, change one thing and compare notes. Eventually you will upgrade equipment, and then you have to rework your process again. Keep taking notes. I use Brewer's Friend for that, some of my recipes have 2-3 pages of notes tacked to the back of the recipe.

The most critical thing, as it is with food you are serving, is this: does it taste good?

Then you can start asking, did this work as I expected? If not, what should I do for next time to get closer to what I want? If so, can I do it again, and again?

Some of us pursue an elusive .01 of usable extract, or exactly 53.75 IBU's or something else that is very scientific/engineering-based, and that is ok.

Some of us want to make a batch of beer that tastes and smells like our dream beer, or that is exactly what <insert Brewery Name here> made and we fell in love with, and that is ok.

Some are looking for both, or a balance between the two, and that is ok.

All is well. Make beer, play with beer-making. Enjoy the process and the fruits of your labors. As you make more beer, the consistency will come, no matter what you use to make it or the recipe you use.

RDWHAHB

If my porter didn't come out perfect, I renamed it a brown ale. I'm definitely not one of the technical brewers-I measure my malt with a scoop that I think holds about 2 pounds of malt. I weigh my hops but throw in an extra pinch. Where I do get precise is my fermentation temps.

 

[sibelman]

measure my malt with a scoop

I also use volume to measure malt, and definitely control fermentation temperature.

I'm more careful with malt weight, weighing a quart measuring cup full of malt and doing the arithmetic. And I routinely measure pre-boil gravity. But I often skip other gravity measurements,

My cooking (of food) is more like Corky's malt measurements.

Level of detail, care about "hitting numbers", etc. can help improve one's beers, but can also weigh on one's peace of mind. Find your own balance!

 

[corkybstewart]

If my porter didn't come out perfect, I renamed it a brown ale. I'm definitely not one of the technical brewers-I measure my malt with a scoop that I think holds about 2 pounds of malt. I weigh my hops but throw in an extra pinch. Where I do get precise is my fermentation temps.

 

[Willy]

Recipe creation - refining what you liked and honing in on your "B" spot (beergasm good) is about ingredients, amounts, milling, ph, water, Dial it in chef. It is a rewarding and fun journey.

Screw the fruits. Just asking for trouble. Just not for me, not making judgments. I want a beer not a sour. Haha.

Software, percentages, batch size, boil off water... Yeah. Also ... If you wanna make a 6.8 ABV , make it 7 in the recipe and give yourself room for lower efficiency (or 6.6 if you wanna go for target or less)

Learn the "numbers". Color, SRM. Learn to hit that. Same with IBU, which is much harder and complex - many variables to balance.

Don't get discouraged. It is only beer. You were gonna piss it out anyway. The fun part is the chef/recipe/execution/serving ... Making your masterpiece.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Now I'll never get to know what the first post said.

Take 2024 topics (2.5 gal batches, BIAB, AIO, ...) and rant about a book, written in 2017, that doesn't cover those topics appropriately for beginners.

What was lost by starting with a "rant" was the ability to mention newer (2022, 2023, 2024) books that do cover those topics. Although Speed Brewing (2015) did get a mention in the comments for those interested in starting out with BIAB and smaller (< 5 gal) batches.

For those anticipating an update to "How to Brew", BeerSmith podcast 300 (1st 15 and last 15 minutes) is worth a listen.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

UPDATE:

Today I had another brew day. I tried to get more diferent measures to be more precise in understanding whats wrong.

I took the preboil grav. It had to be 1.041 I got 1.036. OG had to be 1.049 I got 1.044.So basicly the boil part is kind of ok (didint want to boil longer because scared to ef up hop shedule and to get too much bitternes). It seems that the entire boil just came out 5pts lower all over.

I guess in all of my brews I am missing preboil grav. I try to be as pricise as possible with temperature managing and all other apects. Could poorly milled grain be the problem?

Any tips on how could I troubleshoot myself would be apretiated

Edit: this time it seems I have alot ALOT less trub from the grains left in the pot after transfering. Could this be a sign of something?

 

[DBhomebrew]

SG measurements mean little without accurate temp adjusted volumes. Remember, it's all about gravity points. Maybe your OG was low, but you had too much volume. Maybe OG was low and your volume was spot on. Different scenarios with different 'fixes'.

 

[redrocker652002]

UPDATE:

Today I had another brew day. I tried to get more diferent measures to be more precise in understanding whats wrong.

I took the preboil grav. It had to be 1.041 I got 1.036. OG had to be 1.049 I got 1.044.So basicly the boil part is kind of ok (didint want to boil longer because scared to ef up hop shedule and to get too much bitternes). It seems that the entire boil just came out 5pts lower all over.

I guess in all of my brews I am missing preboil grav. I try to be as pricise as possible with temperature managing and all other apects. Could poorly milled grain be the problem?

Any tips on how could I troubleshoot myself would be apretiated

Edit: this time it seems I have alot ALOT less trub from the grains left in the pot after transfering. Could this be a sign of something?

To be honest, if my numbers were that close I would not even give it a second thought. I have been within 5 points like you were and have made some good beers. I still stand by the idea, it will still be beer, enjoy it and stop sweating the small stuff.

In answering your question about milling, yes that could make a difference. When I got my own mill and milled it a bit finer it seemed to add some points to my pre and post boil numbers. But not being a pro, I did not really get why. If I am correct, the finer the crush the more available sugars are out there for the mash to grab. In a BIAB setup, you don't have to worry too much about being too fine, so I just set it to a credit card gap and that seems to be working for me

 

[Willy]

Do you cool the wort before taking a gravity measurement? I think 75°F is approx the temp you want for your wort to get an accurate gravity reading.

Also - finer milling might help a little. What is your average efficiency? You might need to get a better reading (less efficient brewing - you will need more fermentables to hit your target).

 

[marc1]

UPDATE:

Today I had another brew day. I tried to get more diferent measures to be more precise in understanding whats wrong.

I took the preboil grav. It had to be 1.041 I got 1.036. OG had to be 1.049 I got 1.044.So basicly the boil part is kind of ok (didint want to boil longer because scared to ef up hop shedule and to get too much bitternes). It seems that the entire boil just came out 5pts lower all over.

I guess in all of my brews I am missing preboil grav. I try to be as pricise as possible with temperature managing and all other apects. Could poorly milled grain be the problem?

Any tips on how could I troubleshoot myself would be apretiated

Edit: this time it seems I have alot ALOT less trub from the grains left in the pot after transfering. Could this be a sign of something?

You're making progress on troubleshooting this.
I'm interested in your "had to be" phrasing. Where are you getting these numbers from?
As mentioned earlier in the thread, these need to be determined by you based on the specifics of your process.
Also mentioned above, you should track temperature adjusted volume throughout . Gravity measurements without associated volumes aren't useful for figuring out your process.
If you aren't getting the gravity you want, you can adjust your process, or adjust your grain bill.
Grinding grain finer, doing a longer mash, and sparging can potentially get you more extraction. Adding another pound or 2 of base malt or adding some DME at the end can also increase gravity.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

Do you cool the wort before taking a gravity measurement? I think 75°F is approx the temp you want for your wort to get an accurate gravity reading.

Also - finer milling might help a little. What is your average efficiency? You might need to get a better reading (less efficient brewing - you will need more fermentables to hit your target).

Yea I did cool in a small icebath.

As I see its around 70% by the calculator

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

You're making progress on troubleshooting this.I'm interested in your "had to be" phrasing. Where are you getting these numbers from?
As mentioned earlier in the thread, these need to be determined by you based on the specifics of your process.
Also mentioned above, you should track temperature adjusted volume throughout . Gravity measurements without associated volumes aren't useful for figuring out your process.
If you aren't getting the gravity you want, you can adjust your process, or adjust your grain bill.
Grinding grain finer, doing a longer mash, and sparging can potentially get you more extraction. Adding another pound or 2 of base malt or adding some DME at the end can also increase gravity.

Im using brewfather app and have some recipes saved.

Probably I will try asking guys at the LHBS to mill the grains finer.

Damn Im a bit lost. The more I try to figure out the more I feel like I dont understand..

For future brews I will try finer mill setting or reduce the water content by a littler or two..

 

[hotbeer]

I took the preboil grav. It had to be 1.041 I got 1.036. OG had to be 1.049 I got 1.044.So basicly the boil part is kind of ok (didint want to boil longer because scared to ef up hop shedule and to get too much bitternes). It seems that the entire boil just came out 5pts lower all over.

Water volume used and what volume of wort you obtain from the mash can have a effect on preboil as well as post boil SG's. So make sure you have a handle on whether you are using more or less water than the recipe software is set up for.

In the boil you have to accurately know what your specific boil off loss is and account for that in the recipe calculations.

In most any step, too much volume might mean low SG. Too little might mean higher SG.

Going to a finer crush might solve your SG issue. But it might also just have you chasing crush if your water and wort volumes aren't consistent.

 

[mac_1103]

As has been mentioned, gravity and volume go together. You can't really say "I missed my OG" unless you know that you "hit" your volume. If I go to Brewer's Friend and start putting together a simple recipe for a 5.5 gallon batch with 10 lbs of 2-row, it tells me that my pre-boil gravity should be 1.040, but that's based on the default settings of 7 gallons for pre-boil volume and 75% efficiency. But your grain absorption rate is your grain absorption rate, not anybody else's. And your efficiency is your efficiency, not anybody else's. And when you get to post-boil gravity, your boil off rate is your boil off rate, not anybody else's. So if you provide some more information about your grain bill and volumes, folks will be in a better position to understand what's going on and offer suggestions.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

As has been mentioned, gravity and volume go together. You can't really say "I missed my OG" unless you know that you "hit" your volume. If I go to Brewer's Friend and start putting together a simple recipe for a 5.5 gallon batch with 10 lbs of 2-row, it tells me that my pre-boil gravity should be 1.040, but that's based on the default settings of 7 gallons for pre-boil volume and 75% efficiency. But your grain absorption rate is your grain absorption rate, not anybody else's. And your efficiency is your efficiency, not anybody else's. And when you get to post-boil gravity, your boil off rate is your boil off rate, not anybody else's. So if you provide some more information about your grain bill and volumes, folks will be in a better position to understand what's going on and offer suggestions.

Yes I do understand that. All of this just hit me now, that there is a tad few more things in play that I imagined. Todays brew was:

4.4kg pale malt
200g flaked wheat
400g flaked corn

30L water

1H mash at 67
15MIN mashout at 75

Preboil grav 1.036
Preboil volume I dont know because my pot is not graded. Just a simple 50L stainless steel pot. Maybe I can weigh the wet grain and know how much they absorbed? Kind of reverse engineering.

(Any tips how to grade the pot would be aceptable)

30MIN BOIL

50g of saaz and 25g of centenial added by a specific hop shedule

OG 1.042

In to fermenter I got exactly 21L of wort

Brew house efic calc shows 70% eficency

 

[DBhomebrew]

Preboil volume I dont know because my pot is not graded. Just a simple 50L stainless steel pot.

Arm yourself with a stainless steel metric ruler and the formula for the volume of a cylinder.

 

[mac_1103]

30L water
...
In to fermenter I got exactly 21L of wort

Seems like a lot of volume to lose to absorption and boil off with that much grain and a short boil. But anyway, it looks like your brewhouse efficiency is less than 60% (according to Brewer's Friend, you started with 414 points of sugars in the grain and put 244 points into the fermenter; 244/414 = 0.589).

You can try crushing finer, but you might also think about splitting that water volume into an 18L mash and a 12L batch sparge. And squeezing the bag after each step. I think you're leaving a lot of good stuff in the bag.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

Seems like a lot of volume to lose to absorption and boil off with that much grain and a short boil. But anyway, it looks like your brewhouse efficiency is less than 60% (according to Brewer's Friend, you started with 414 points of sugars in the grain and put 244 points into the fermenter; 244/414 = 0.589).

You can try crushing finer, but you might also think about splitting that water volume into an 18L mash and a 12L batch sparge. And squeezing the bag after each step. I think you're leaving a lot of good stuff in the bag.

After the mashout I pull the bag, put in on a rack and squize the hell out of it. Next time I will try a sparge.

Damn many more beers I will have to plan to test all the things out, haha.

 

[mac_1103]

Damn many more beers I will have to plan to test all the things out, haha.

Write everything down. Even stuff that you think couldn't possibly matter. And definitely start measuring your pre-boil volume.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

Write everything down. Even stuff that you think couldn't possibly matter. And definitely start measuring your pre-boil volume.

Yea, I do have loooots of notes..

 

[DBhomebrew]

(Any tips how to grade the pot would be aceptable)

You can do this with a battery and q-tip dipped in acid.

Or, use a ruler to measure the height of the wort. In my 5Gal kettle 1mm is roughly equal to 1.7oz. Much more accurate than 1L gradations etched in the side.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

You can do this with a battery and q-tip dipped in acid.

Or, use a ruler to measure the height of the wort. In my 5Gal kettle 1mm is roughly equal to 1.7oz. Much more accurate than 1L gradations etched in the side.

Damn this sounds smart! Why I havent thought about it myself

 

[doug293cz]

Arm yourself with a stainless steel metric ruler and the formula for the volume of a cylinder.

Or, you can make a dip stick. Add a measured volume of water at a time to your pot, and mark the stick at the liquid level for each addition. You need to have a well calibrated measuring pitcher, or you can do the water additions by weight (8.33 lb/gal or 0.9982 kg/L at 68°F/20°C.) This works for vessels that are not perfectly cylindrical.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Could poorly milled grain be the problem?

Grit size, determined by the mill gap (and some other variables) affects the conversion rate of starch to sugar. In order for the enzymes to convert starch to sugar, the starch first has to be gelatinized (starch matrix expanded and saturated with water.) Gelatinization starts at the surface of the grits and works its way inward. The larger the grits, the longer complete gelatinization takes, and you cannot get complete conversion until you have complete gelatinization. So, coarser crushes take longer to complete conversion than finer crushes, all else being equal.

Mash efficiency is made up of two independent factors: conversion efficiency (fraction of the starch that gets converted to sugar) and lauter efficiency (fraction of the sugar created that actually makes it into the boil kettle.) Mash efficiency equals conversion efficiency times lauter efficiency. Conversion efficiency is primarily determined by mash time, crush fineness, and mash temperature. Conversion efficiency can be as high as 100%. Lauter efficiency is primarily determined by grain bill weight to pre-boil volume ratio, grain absorption, sparge process, and any undrainable mash vessel volume (which is zero for BIAB.) Lauter efficiency is always less than 100%. A single batch sparge will give you about an 8 percentage point increase in lauter efficiency (and also in mash efficiency), and a well conducted fly-sparge (hard to do with BIAB) can give you up to about a 15 percentage point increase in lauter efficiency

Brewhouse efficiency is just mash efficiency times fermenter volume divided by post-boil volume.

You can quantitatively measure your conversion efficiency using the method here. Lauter efficiency can be accurately predicted using the spreadsheet here (for batch or no sparge.) To effectively use the spreadsheet, you need to download it either as an MS Office or LibreOffice spreadsheet and use it locally. Note that you can switch the spreadsheet between imperial (gal & lbs) and metric (kg & L) units using the drop-down selection in cell B2.

Brew on

 

[marc1]

Im using brewfather app and have some recipes saved.

Probably I will try asking guys at the LHBS to mill the grains finer.

Damn Im a bit lost. The more I try to figure out the more I feel like I dont understand..

For future brews I will try finer mill setting or reduce the water content by a littler or two..

What is it that you are having trouble understanding? This is a very patient group to help people that are serious about learning.

There is a fixed amount of starch (to be converted to sugars in the mash) available in the grain. This is determined by the amount of grain (and to a smaller extent the type of grain/specific lot of grain... you can get specifics from a lot analysis sheet if you can find one but defaults from brewing software should be good enough).

How much of that starch/sugar goodness you get out and into your wort is determined by things like the grind, mash length, mash/sparge volumes, and wort retained in the grain. Getting gravity readings and volumes can help you determine your various efficiencies (@doug293cz has a good link for the details of those, IIRC). Water expands a little bit when heated to mash/boil temps, so you can account for heating expansion/cooling shrinkage when measuring volumes if you want.

Your boil reduces water volume through evaporation, but does not eliminate the sugars, so they concentrate more with more boil off.

You may lose some volume when transferring to your fermenter, depending on your process. Some people leave a bunch in the kettle, some transfer everything.

One helpful way to plan a beer is to decide how much volume you want to package (say, 20L), then go back and add in losses at each step. So if you lose 2L in the fermenter to trub, you'd want to put 22L into the fermenter. If you also lose 2L to kettle trub when transferring to the fermenter, then you want 24L after the boil, and so on. When you have a ballpark idea of the efficiency that your system produces, you can then decide how much grain you need to make the gravity you want at the starting volume you want. You can make good beer with lower efficiency, it will just cost a little more for extra grain. If you change your process (eg, grinding grain more fine, or adding a batch sparge vs no sparge) your efficiency may change, and when you figure it out (by brewing) you can update your expectations for brews. Being off a bit won't ruin anything.

Edit: Doug beat me to the efficiency discussion.

 

[Takeshi_pilis]

What is it that you are having trouble understanding? This is a very patient group to help people that are serious about learning.

Just the scope of info is big. I read through posts like yours multiple times to realy soak it in. Plus there is language barier. I do have to google some stuff to understand what was ment to say. Especial the terms.

But yea, I think Im starting to get the hang of it.

Plan for future: will brew one batch with finer grind, and second one with finer grind and a sparge. Firstly we will see if the grind helps to get more efic with “no effort” secondly we will see if the sparge for me helps to squize that efic even more.

Damn, I need more kegs to package all em beers! And more mouths to drink it all, haha!

Big big thank you all for sharing and teaching me. Means alot!

EDIT: I went to my LHBS to get some DME to compensate. And the guys almost LOL’ed at me when I said I do no sparge and reasured that they mill the grain more finner then its usualy done.

 

[Bassman2003]

You are making progress, but I would caution you to try to simplify a little more in your early stages here. No sense in rushing to complicated recipes and process until you are making great beer. Great beer IS made with simple processes!

Things to check:

1) Thermometer. Is it accurate?
2) Mash Temps. Are you really at the right temps for the entire time?
3) Volume Losses. Keep track of what you start with and how much gets lost at every step. Put that in the software then check if you actually need more water to begin with. Which might lead to needing more grain to hit your gravity target. This is dialing in your System and is more important than anything at this point.
4) Mash Step Times. You are a beginner but I will share with you an advanced technique - do not use mash times but rather stay in your rests based upon gravity readings. What does this mean? Well, your last brew had one mash step and mashout, so you would stay in that one rest until you reached your preboil gravity. Makes sense right? Why exit at 60 minutes and leave some gravity behind when you could mash for longer and get to your target? After 60 minutes, take a reading and then take a reading every 10 minutes until you are at your target. Then go to mashout. Mash times are just for convenience in explaining to new brewers and an educated guess for 'most malts & systems'. Take the guessing away and take control of your brew day.