Using WLP830 for first Lager attempt

[jturman35]

Hey guys giving my first go at a NZ Pils recipe and using WLP830 for a 5 gal batch 1.051.

Got my yeast today and a little disappointed it expired in September and I won’t be brewing till end of October. Brewers Friend yeast calculator says there is no viable yeast! Beersmith says 40% viable. I got time to build a starter but there seems to be a discrepancy in how many cells I'm starting with.

I know yeast is pretty important in this style, I’m a little hesitant to roll with this, any suggestions?

 

[VikeMan]

I would use the 40% and roll with it, particularly since this is a White Labs Pure Pitch. There's a wonderful thing about yeast starter growth curves: they are not linear. For example, if you only have half the viable cells you think you have, you'll get more than half the expected final cells. And if you have double the viable cells you think you have, you'll get less than double the expected final cells. i.e. errors in estimated starting cell count are somewhat self mitigating. Also, for a decent lager pitch rate, you're going to need a multi-step starter. You'll be able to get a feel for what you have during the first step.

 

[jdauria]

From White Labs, their testing shows their PurePitch packs last longer than normal. At 6 months, they say 71.59%, so at 7 months using their info, you could use 68% viability. Upholding Innovation & Quality: The PurePitch® Shelf Life | White Labs

 

[Steveruch]

Hey guys giving my first go at a NZ Pils recipe and using WLP830 for a 5 gal batch 1.051.

Got my yeast today and a little disappointed it expired in September and I won’t be brewing till end of October.

Where did you get this yeast? I'd complain about getting an out of date yeast.

 

[jturman35]

I ordered online from my LHBS. This is my first lager so I was trying to shoot for a big starter. I was just confused why BS3 and Brewers Friend have two completely different answers. How should I step this up?

 

[Steveruch]

I ordered online from my LHBS. This is my first lager so I was trying to shoot for a big starter. I was just confused why BS3 and Brewers Friend have two completely different answers. How should I step this up?

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't except an out of date yeast. The shop would replace it with a fresh one or they'd lose any future business from me.

 

[VikeMan]

Does BeerSmith not compute multi-step starters? Anyway, for a 5 gallon lager (i.e. 1.5B cells per ml per degree plato) @1.051 and 1 yeast pack at 40% viability, BrewCipher recommends steps of 0.4 quarts and 3.2 quarts. That's for a stir plate starter.

 

[jturman35]

Thanks VikeMan! Yes, BS3 does calculate multi step starters. Does the starter temp matter when on the stir plate?

 

[VikeMan]

Does the starter temp matter when on the stir plate?

IMO, temperature isn't as critical as with a full batch fermentation. But I'd recommend staying on the cool side, if possible, with a lager yeast starter.

 

[jturman35]

42 hours in at about 55deg and it looks like nothing is happening. I ended up doing (2)1.5L starters and pitched the entire second starter after 24hours on the stir plate. Looking at my sight glass it’s just clear wort. I have never done a lager before, so I’m used to stuff bouncing around in there by now. When should I be worried?

 

[couchsending]

Did the starters look like they showed much in the way of activity?

I’d recommend a lot more yeast next time. I usually use 2 packs of fresh yeast in a 3.5-4L starter. I will always see fermentation the next AM even pitching at 46. You pretty much need a 5L flask to make lager starters.

 

[jturman35]

Smelled and seemed ok. The second starter even had a good amount of krausen on the outer edge while on the stir plate. The starter also appeared real murky almost like a NEIPA.


I assume a lager ferment will look like a typical ale once it starts rolling or does it remain clear the whole time? Sounds stupid but this is my first lager and I’m off to a bad start.

 

[Beer666]

Personally i would do a liter starter then decant and step it up to three to be sure. That's what i do with old yeast. Save a small amount for the next one and reuse all the slurry for the next batch. Lager ferments look the same but might take a bit longer to get going depending on the pitch size. You cant really pitch too much with a lager but its ok if it takes a few days to start bubbling. Most important thing is to maintain temp imho. Best of luck.