Using bag for grain in mash tun

[pdxal]

For what it's worth, I've heard this referred to as "Mash-in-a-Bag." You get the benefits of the bag (easy cleanup, no stuck sparges) with the benefits of a separate mash vessel (insulation).

Heard that too. Really just splitting hairs, though. Where BIAB ends and MIAB begins is blurry. Many people who use BIAB use a second vessel for a dunk sparge (which would be called a batch sparge in coolers), and stir the grains just as you would in a cooler.

You're 100% correct, other than the differences there aren't any differences. I mean, by your logic there isn't a difference between fly sparging, batch sparging, or RIMS because they all transform grain and water into wort.

Relax. No need to get worked up about semantics here.
I heat up strike water in a pot, add a bag and pour grains in, stir, and rest until conversion. Sometimes I also infuse hot water or heat for a different rest. I also remove the bag, and dunk in a second pot with hot (or sometimes cold) water for a sparge to extract more sugars before adding that wort to the boil pot.
Sounds a lot like batch sparging and mashing in a cooler, except I use pot(s) without a valve and can direct heat if I wish.
The line is blurry. I would call what I do BIAB, but some would call it something else, I guess.:fro:

 

[divrguy]

Using the bag while doing it All grain...then pulling a bag over to the trash can and dumping it into a garbage bag/can is a heck of a lot easier than cleaning a non lined cooler using the same all grain technique.. Just my 2 cents.


Cheers!

 

[LLBrewer]

Using the bag while doing it All grain...then pulling a bag over to the trash can and dumping it into a garbage bag/can is a heck of a lot easier than cleaning a non lined cooler using the same all grain technique.. Just my 2 cents.


Cheers!

+1 I've done it both ways and the bag is easier. The cooler is a pita to get all the grain out from under the false bottom and I don't want to have to disassemble the mash tun after every brew day.

 

[LLBrewer]

I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?

 

[LLBrewer]

Heard that too. Really just splitting hairs, though. Where BIAB ends and MIAB begins is blurry. Many people who use BIAB use a second vessel for a dunk sparge (which would be called a batch sparge in coolers), and stir the grains just as you would in a cooler.


Relax. No need to get worked up about semantics here.
I heat up strike water in a pot, add a bag and pour grains in, stir, and rest until conversion. Sometimes I also infuse hot water or heat for a different rest. I also remove the bag, and dunk in a second pot with hot (or sometimes cold) water for a sparge to extract more sugars before adding that wort to the boil pot.
Sounds a lot like batch sparging and mashing in a cooler, except I use pot(s) without a valve and can direct heat if I wish.
The line is blurry. I would call what I do BIAB, but some would call it something else, I guess.:fro:

Not getting worked up lol. Look, it's really not a matter of semantics. BIAB doesn't require a mash tun or HLT but what we are talking about (MIAB or whatever) absolutely does. You probably wouldn't try to get your full boil volume from the initial mash doing MIAB (ugh) but you frequently would doing (BIAB). I never "dunk" the bag as most biab'ers do. As to whether that is just semantics or not is debatable I guess. Like I said, you could use similar logic to state that batch and fly sparging are the same and the differences are only semantic.

 

[Calichusetts]

I MIAB for what its worth. I also pour the wort back through the bag in a strainer as a "vorlauf." Pour in sparge water and repeat. Super ghetto but 75% tonight on my IIPA with tons of wheat and maris otter. Not even close to a stuck sparge, which I have never had FWIW.

I just enjoy the simplicity of the setup. Easy clean, easy drain, easy clean up of grains

 

[PHDrunk]

I batch sparge with a rectangular cooler and home-built PVC manifold. Had a horrendous stuck sparge after my first go with the new setup so I went to the LHBS and bought a voile bag that's roughly a foot and a half deep and a foot wide. I put the bag around the manifold as a second line of defense. No problems since. I Vorlauf consistently, but honestly I never really see the quality of the wort change (in terms of particles, etc) so I'm probably just wasting my time. I don't get any clean up aid from the bag because it isn't lining the cooler, but I like to soak the tun in oxyclean after brew day anyway. I can get all the hard to reach stuff with the soak.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[beavers]

I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?

I think the consensus is no, unless you're adding heat to the mash tun somehow. The bag does all the filtering (and more!) that a false bottom or manifold would do, so unless you need to elevate the bag inside the tun to avoid scorching it when applying heat, no need for extra equipment.

 

[masscarriers]

I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?

It's not, I do all my brews this way as well. The point of the bag is essentially to replace the false bottom. If you already have a cooler (I use a rectangular picnic cooler), a piece of voile material costs pretty much nothing and you get all the benefits beavers described before while staying simple.

More over, with the grain bag you really don't need to heat anything around your mash tun. I heat my water outside, pour it inside the cooler until I reach the desired temp (and volume) and then dump the grain inside. When mashing is done, you can do pretty much the same thing with the pre-heated sparge water.

No scooping grain out of the cooler, no expensive false bottom, no vorlauf, no stuck sparge and good efficiency out of an already owned cooler and a piece of fabric, you can't beat that

 

[KeninMN]

For me it's a cost issue. I want to do 5 gallon BIAB batches, but I don't want to spend $315 for a 10 gallon brew kettle, propane burner and quality BIAB bag when I can get a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer/burner combo for $50, a 10 gallon round cooler for $45 and a quality BIAB bag for $35. Brew in a bag, mash in a bag, who cares about labels and technique purity? It's all about making beer and figuring out what works best for you. I don't care if the sausage maker cranks the grinder clockwise or counter clockwise as long as the sausage tastes good...

 

[plustroy63]

I still do everything the "traditional" all grain in cooler with batch sparge way I just added a cheap strainer bag to line my cooler. The reason I did and continue to use it is because it makes everything easier. Draining is easy and faster, clean up is easy and fast and it only cost me the few dollars to add the bag. I don't think it is worth arguing over what style this is what I do leans a bit more towards AG while someones is closer to biab but who cares if I batch sparge or dunk the grains and combine runnings? If it works it works. I am not saying they are the same thing but I am saying it doesn't really matter that they are slightly different ways of rinsing grains.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Because it's not. At all. What the OP is talking about is no different from a normal single infusion / batch sparge process except you line the tun with a grain bag.

It is but the OP uses two vessels. It grains in a bag and a single infusion mash. I'm assuming you believe BIAB is using one vessel for this? Guess draining my mash into a pot makes mine not BIAB because I have two vessels.

 

[LLBrewer]

It is but the OP uses two vessels. It grains in a bag and a single infusion mash. I'm assuming you believe BIAB is using one vessel for this? Guess draining my mash into a pot makes mine not BIAB because I have two vessels.

LMAO! If it's the same then there's no difference between BIAB and AG batch sparging. And if that's the case, why is there a forum dedicated to BIAB? I think you're being needlessly argumentative. The noobies reading this thread should understand that while the two methods accomplish roughly the same thing, the process is somewhat different.

 

[Limestone_Cowboy]

LMAO! If it's the same then there's no difference between BIAB and AG batch sparging. And if that's the case, why is there a forum dedicated to BIAB? I think you're being needlessly argumentative. The noobies reading this thread should understand that while the two methods accomplish roughly the same thing, the process is somewhat different.

They are.. and there doesn't really seem to be any terminology to accurately describe the differences. I mash in an igloo with a bag, and drop the grains in a kettle of make-up water. Some have called that a 'dunk sparge', because it is.. there's clearly fermentables left in the kettle. The prob as I see it.. and not being either a traditional sparger or biab'er.. is that its all still all-grain brewing. Our own devices have enabled us toward methods that suit our style. At the risk of ducking, the term BIAB has already outlived its own useful definition, as the methods have already blurred. I propose the term "single vessel brewing". Or perhaps, the traditional spargers will accept the BIAB's wholly into their special forum of traditonalness, and it be done with it.

edit: and in all honesty, why in the world would anybody sparge 5-15 lbs. of grain, when you can just lift the damn thing out and set it in the kettle you need anyway! Fly/batch has its place, but at the size most people are brewing here, why bother differentiating these things.

 

[LLBrewer]

...why bother differentiating these things.

Because they are, well, different. You may be right and the biab group has the most efficient method for extracting sugars from grain but that won't make it the same process. It really is not semantics, thats all I'm saying.

 

[beavers]

[...]the term BIAB has already outlived its own useful definition, as the methods have already blurred.

I slightly disagree on the usefulness of the term. The essence of BIAB is the bag itself, which then enables using a single vessel. It was a novel development the Aussies came up with, and that's just what they started calling it.

At some point, a thoughtful 3V brewer realized mash cleanup was way easier with the bag, and replaced his traditional false bottom with it. So to name this new hybrid technique, they kept the "-in-a-bag" part (since that's the essential thing), and added "Mash" to distinguish it from the 1V technique already named BIAB.

Both are meaningful, useful terms.

I propose the term "single vessel brewing".

I think it's too late to rename it.

 

[beersk]

I can't believe you guys are arguing about this. All grain brewing is all grain brewing. Brew in a bag is a method of 1 vessel brewing. I guess if you want to call it brewing in a bag if you're using a bag in a cooler mash tun, then fine. But why all the bickering and arguing about this?
I just recently decided to ditch my braid and use a nice voile bag my mom sewed up for me. I had a couple stuck run offs, which I don't know why, but that was enough for me to say eff it to that. I'd used the same crush, the same set up, even for 60% wheat beers with no stuck runoffs, but the last couple times, I've gotten stuck even without wheat. Argh!

 

[LLBrewer]

...but who cares if I batch sparge or dunk the grains and combine runnings? If it works it works.

Nobody cares. You can fly sparge, batch sparge, no sparge, dunk, or put your mash in the oven and then strain it into your bk. It's all AG brewing but the process is different. Each way probably has it's pros and cons, whatever works best for you is what you should do. Just don't confuse people by claiming two different methods are the same just because they both produce wort.

 

[beavers]

But why all the bickering and arguing about this?

Uhhhh, unless I missed something, I don't think anyone was bickering. Healthy debate and discussion from where I'm sitting.

 

[beersk]

Uhhhh, unless I missed something, I don't think anyone was bickering. Healthy debate and discussion from where I'm sitting.

Oh fine :cross:

Still, using a bag to line a mashtun is a great idea. I've had just about enough of the stuck runoff BS.

 

[Limestone_Cowboy]

I slightly disagree on the usefulness of the term. The essence of BIAB is the bag itself, which then enables using a single vessel. It was a novel development the Aussies came up with, and that's just what they started calling it.

At some point, a thoughtful 3V brewer realized mash cleanup was way easier with the bag, and replaced his traditional false bottom with it. So to name this new hybrid technique, they kept the "-in-a-bag" part (since that's the essential thing), and added "Mash" to distinguish it from the 1V technique already named BIAB.

Both are meaningful, useful terms.



I think it's too late to rename it.

Who could have predicted a mesh bag would rile such passions and stir controversy among reasonable people! I'm being a little tongue in cheek, the name has stuck and even earned its own acronym. So be it.

That said, I'm not one to draw too many fine distinctions under a greater umbrella; I don't take methods too seriously, just the outcome. The bag though, it is a novel development in amatuer brewing. I don't say that in a negative sense, unless you're a pro, and then it's all moot. The bag is ours. The Peoples' Bag... and we shall only make mention of 1V's, 2V's or 3V's when it affects the outcome.

..As the Grains Soak has been brought to you by..

"Sometimes my hands feel so dry, that was until I tried.. "

 

[user 141939]

For me it's a cost issue. I want to do 5 gallon BIAB batches, but I don't want to spend $315 for a 10 gallon brew kettle, propane burner and quality BIAB bag when I can get a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer/burner combo for $50, a 10 gallon round cooler for $45 and a quality BIAB bag for $35. Brew in a bag, mash in a bag, who cares about labels and technique purity? It's all about making beer and figuring out what works best for you. I don't care if the sausage maker cranks the grinder clockwise or counter clockwise as long as the sausage tastes good...

How come a 10 gallon kettle costs $315 for a traditional mash and a 7.5 costs $50 for for BIAB? My experience is that kettle costs are largely independent of mashing method.

My 10 gallon kettle costs $50.

 

[beavers]

The bag is ours. The Peoples' Bag...

Long live the bag!

 

[poptarts]

Bag makes for easy clean up, and if you get a stuck sparge its super easy to pick up the bag and fix it. idk why you wouldnt use a bag.
My MLT

Mashing with a bag

 

[LLBrewer]

Bag makes for easy clean up, and if you get a stuck sparge its super easy to pick up the bag and fix it. idk why you wouldnt use a bag.
My MLT

Mashing with a bag

Yeah, I agree. I don't see why anyone using a cooler for a MT wouldn't use a bag. It's worth it just to not have to vorlouf anymore. And while I haven't tried it, you may well be able to get away with a finer crush.

 

[wingedcoyote]

You should totally be able to do a finer crush, if it works fine for BIAB I don't know why it wouldn't for MIAB.

Question for those who use bags with cooler mash tuns: do you use a ball valve, and do you think it's necessary to do so? I BIAB and I'm thinking about getting a cooler to reduce temp loss, but I was hoping I could skip the valve and just drain out of the cooler's built-in spout. Will that be ok, or will it not stand up to the heat?

 

[Limestone_Cowboy]

I don't use a valve and I'm not sure if one is neccesary for 5g batches, might depend on the person. But since I'm exclusively 2.75g in a 5g igloo, I pick up the cooler and dump it into my kettle of makeup/dunk water. I just set the kettle on the floor first and make sure my pour is deliberate. The temp control alone is worth it for me. Never bothered with the built in spout, would seem pretty slow.

You could always test 'the dump' with some hose water outside.. just to see how cleanly you can do it. Otherwise go with the valve. I tried to avoid the cost (and another hose to clean) in the first place.. mr. cheapo.

 

[beersk]

You should totally be able to do a finer crush, if it works fine for BIAB I don't know why it wouldn't for MIAB.

Question for those who use bags with cooler mash tuns: do you use a ball valve, and do you think it's necessary to do so? I BIAB and I'm thinking about getting a cooler to reduce temp loss, but I was hoping I could skip the valve and just drain out of the cooler's built-in spout. Will that be ok, or will it not stand up to the heat?

Mine is a #5 drilled bung wedged as far into the hole of the cooler as it can go with a piece of tubing through it with one of those white clamps to control or stop flow. I have about an inch of the tubing going into the cooler. I use an orange 5 gallon Rubbermaid cooler.

 

[4of7]

I am assuming there is a good reason for not doing this, but I haven't read anything about it yet. I am doing my first AG tomorrow. I have read that a stuck sparge can be an annoyance. Is it okay to throw all the grain in a big muslin bag to avoid this or will that decrease the extraction from the grains? Thanks.


Here then beer!

2v ebiab, 15 gallon kettle, 10 gallon batches, 50l kegmenter, 3.5-4 brew day..oh yeah I like it... the bag makes it easier to clean mt.. grain bill is normal..."Stay strong and Brew on""