US-05 vs. Nottingham: SRSLEH U GAIS

[NoIguanaForZ]

Soooo, I've kinda been using US-05 by default as a "neutral" ale yeast since it's the "default" option for most of the LHBS kits I cut my teeth on, and it's served me reasonably well in dark beers.

Unfortunately, over the months, 2-3 lighter (like amber) beers have left me...less than impressed with its flocculation characteristics.

(By "less than impressed" I mean somewhere between "table-pound" and "table-flip." Both of which, unfortunately, tend to stir up sediment. D: )

So, from my reading, Nottingham has a similar "neutral" ale character, and much better flocculation...

....except maybe with a bit more esters, except with slightly more attenuation and thus drier, except possibly with a bit of residual tart flavor, except...

*exaggerated quizzical head tilt*

No, seriously. Google results are all over the map. I'd like to hear from people who've used both, for comparable beers, as far as their respective merits in the general category of "default/neutral ale yeast." Preferably with details.

For please?

...I'd especially like to hear about their relative merits in A) big beers (8-12%, say) and B) higher-temp fermentation (US-05 has a nice fruity-peachy-tropical character fermented warm. Notty is an English yeast, but it doesn't do that godawful burned rubber thing S-04 does at "too warm" fermentation temps, right? Right? O.O )

 

[JohnSand]

I have split a batch, fermenting half with Nottingham, the other half with US05. The beers turned out fairly similar, the higher flocculation of Notty resulted in slightly less bitterness.
In my experience, you should keep notty cooler than 05, or it produces a persistent, unpleasant sharpness.

 

[casualbrewer]

Notty likes to be cold in my experience. I find it cleaner than 05 and has produced a pretty good pseudo lager. And as advertised it floccs hard with a good cold crash and forms a tight sediment layer.

 

[PADave]

B) higher-temp fermentation (US-05 has a nice fruity-peachy-tropical character fermented warm. Notty is an English yeast, but it doesn't do that godawful burned rubber thing S-04 does at "too warm" fermentation temps, right? Right? O.O )

I think you got that backwards. US-05 has peachy off flavors when it's too cool, never heard it called nice. Notty is best kept cooler. I've used both, and both work well if kept out of their off flavor zone.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

I think you got that backwards. US-05 has peachy off flavors when it's too cool, never heard it called nice.

I don't know that I've ever had the "too cool" experience, but I get a sort of vaguely tropical fruity flavor from fermenting carboys of US-05 out on the counter in my apartment during spring and fall (the first time I did it, I thought it was something cool with the hops at first; subsequent times I've been intentionally cultivating it because it worked with what I was trying to make). Maybe a different off-flavor than the one people are calling "peach" that accompanies cold fermentation.

I enjoy that flavor, if it's consistent with the rest of the beer, but I'm sure it'd clash in most recipes.

 

[Aristotelian]

Basic Brewing podcast did a blind taste test that was pretty interesting. The sample with all the qualities that were supposed to be US-05 (neutral, clean, etc) turned out to be Notty and vice versa. I did a split batch once and could not tell any difference. Bottom line, these yeasts are very similar and most people probably wont be able to tell the difference.

 

[eadavis80]

I've done 2 beers with Notty and I didn't like either. I fermented them in the low 60's. Now, maybe it was the recipe/ingredients, I don't know, but I'll never use Notty again. 05 beers have been consistently good for me.

 

[Jim311]

I wish I knew how to describe the differences between the two because I've made identical recipes multiple times with each using US05 or Notty. I like Notty because it kicks off fast and will absolutely blow the lid off if you ferment it on the upper scale of it's temperature range. It finishes FAST. But the flavor was very very similar between the two. I keep both on hand since they're both cheap and easily available.

 

[mattdee1]

If clean and crisp is what I'm after, lately I've been using BRY-97 with good results every time so far (3-4 batches).

I've had pretty good experience with both S-05 and Nottingham as well, but there have been some anomalies. My last Notty batch was a bit on the tart side. My last S-05 batch was a blonde ale I made as a split batch and it tasted like a saison. The other half of that batch was fermented with BRY-97, and turned out squeaky clean. The saison-esque beer was still good and got consumed pretty quickly by guests, but it's kind of off-putting when flavors like that show up when you aren't asking for them.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Huh. So BRY-97 is cleaner than Nottingham in your experience?

Has that been anyone else's?

 

[molybdenite]

Have you considered M44? It's similar to US-05 but has higher flocculation. The temperature range is 64-74 F.
I did a split batch of 15-minute Cascade Pale Ale (extract). M44 for one half, Nottingham for the other half. I preferred the M44.

 

[eadavis80]

I like Bry-97 more than Notty for sure. Not sure I like it more than 05. However, IME 97 is closer to 05 than Notty is. Bry-97 can be slow to start however, even if rehydrated. There are threads on this if you look around. However, if you harvest 97 the next time you use it you will not have such a lag time.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

So I decided to try a side-by-side yeast fermentation experiment. 5.75 gallon batch of the Irish Extra Stout I'd turned a recipe kit into, with some hop adjustments and my usual aggressive sparging, fermented side by side with WLP004 (the original, as a control) and some dry yeasts I'd meant to compare as possible replacements: US-05, S-04, BRY-97, Windsor, Nottingham, and since I had some wort leftover, W-34/70 for the hell of it.

I meant to ferment then for 2 weeks at 65 F in 1 gallon containers (2 glass fermenters, 5 thoroughly rinsed and sanitized former vinegar jugs). Unfortunately, stuff happened and I wasn't able to bottle until they'd been in the fermenters and fermentation fridge for nearly 3 1/2 weeks. With foil-and-rubber-band closure, which worked well enough on my malt flavor experiment cluster, but the carbonation is meager, there's noticeable oxidation, and some off flavors here and there.

The US-05 and Nottingham samples taste similar; the US-05 tastes slightly more acidic. The S-04 tastes similar to those two, but slightly richer and fruitier. The Windsor seems to have a surprisingly intense phenolic character, along with some esters; it was also by a significant margin the most carbonated. The BRY-97 seems to have fermented almost boringly clean, except for a pronounced, almost overpowering off flavor that makes it more or less taste like a permanent marker smells (there's a hint of this with the Windsor, too). It's gotten better as it warmed, but still.... o.o The WLP004 is somewhere between the US-05/Nottingham point and the W-34/70, which is oddly enough my favorite. There's a...richness to it, that seems to bring out the roasted malt taste and the earthiness of Willamette hops in a way that the others don't.

Given the rather poor handling up to this point I'm not gonna make a final determination, but I'm thinking I may go through a round of the porter recipe I've been working on with each of these in turn, starting with W-34/70 at 65. And see where that goes...

 

[catdaddy66]

Huh. So BRY-97 is cleaner than Nottingham in your experience?

Has that been anyone else's?

Love both of these but Notty is my favorite. It's my go to product.