US-05 question

[brew703]

I brewed a PA Friday and one on Saturday (2 gal batches). I pitched 5.75 grams (rehydrated) @ 7pm on Friday. By 1pm on Saturday, fermentation began.

Brewed another batch Saturday and pitched 5.75 grams (dry) @ 5:30am on Sunday. This batch still shows no signs of activity.
Both were hit with 45 sec of pure oxygen.
The first batch was really active yesterday. Had to replace the airlock with a blowoff tube.

My question: what is the normal lag time before active fermentation begins? I've used US-05 before and it's never taken more than 24 hrs to start.

I figured with these batch I would try one batch with rehydrated yeast and the other just sprinkled.

Both batches were at 65 degrees when the yeast was pitched. Fermentation temp is 65-66 degrees.

Just curious to see what others are experiencing.

 

[A2HB]

I've had repitched 05 take like 36 hours to show signs of activity, but usually a fresh sachet starts a lot sooner, like around 8-12 hours. What was your recipe and how fresh was the yeast packet?

 

[slym2none]

I think this shows that there is a difference between hydrating dry yeast & just sprinkling it on wort.

 

[Bosh]

US-05 is often pretty slow to start compared to other yeasts.

 

[brew703]

I've had repitched 05 take like 36 hours to show signs of activity, but usually a fresh sachet starts a lot sooner, like around 8-12 hours. What was your recipe and how fresh was the yeast packet?

Yeast had a date of May 2017 I believe.
As for recipes, the re-hydrated batch consisted of:
OG 1.063
5.25 lb 2Row
.5 lb flaked wheat
2.5 oz c60
Added 5 grams gypsum/ 2.3 grams calcium chloride to 5 gallons water (BIAB)
Mash 150 / 60 min boil

2nd batch (non hydrated):
OG 1.062
5 lb 2Row
3.5 oz C20
3 oz Carapils
Mash 152 / 60 min boil

What's strange is I did the same with a previous batch where the rehydrated took off before the non rehydrated but there was only a 1.5 hr difference. The recipes were basically the same.

I did find on the web where some brewers were experiencing 36 hr lag times with 05. I guess I'll re-hydrate from now on.

 

[brew_darrymore]

I always re-hydrate and still experience 36-48 hours lag time with US05.

 

[brew703]

I always re-hydrate and still experience 36-48 hours lag time with US05.

I've never experienced 36+ hrs lag time. for the most part, always fermentation has always started 12-18 hrs, sometimes even before that.

I guess the next questions would be at what point would I re-pitch? I don't have any US-05. I have some harvested yeast I can take from.

 

[Rhaop]

I always re-hydrate and still experience 36-48 hours lag time with US05.

That's crazy, i have never rehydrated dry yeast but I've haven't had us-05 take longer then 24hrs for airlock activity

 

[brew_darrymore]

I know it's weird and it's happened more than once! Kept the carboy At 63-64F, used a full US05 package and still took so long to start. Fermentation proceeded as normal and beer turned out OK.

I don't worry about it now.

 

[brew703]

Guess I'll let it ride and see what happens.

 

[CamG]

That's crazy, i have never rehydrated dry yeast but I've haven't had us-05 take longer then 12hrs for airlock activity

my normal us-05 is 24 hours to some air lock activity, 36 for full signs of fermentation. My temps are in the 62 - 68 range

 

[brew703]

my normal us-05 is 24 hours to some air lock activity, 36 for full signs of fermentation. My temps are in the 62 - 68 range

That's usually my lag time for 05. Most of the time less than that.
Temps now is 66

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I pitched two 5g ~60 point batches with a pack each of hydrated US-05 at 5pm yesterday, and as of 5pm today they had about three inches of browning krausen and were just starting to pop the blow-offs.

Pretty typical behavior, ime...

Cheers!

 

[jmitchell3]

Yeah if you sprinkle the yeast without rehydrating you'll have about 50% cell death, so I'd expect a significantly higher lag time in that case. Further, I would recommend just going ahead and pitching an entire rehydrated 11g pack on these 2 gal batches. For a 1.050 wort that's just about an optimum pitching rate. 5.75 g is just not quite enough, even if it is rehydrated. It will ferment it's just gonna take longer.

 

[brew703]

Yeah if you sprinkle the yeast without rehydrating you'll have about 50% cell death, so I'd expect a significantly higher lag time in that case. Further, I would recommend just going ahead and pitching an entire rehydrated 11g pack on these 2 gal batches. For a 1.050 wort that's just about an optimum pitching rate. 5.75 g is just not quite enough, even if it is rehydrated. It will ferment it's just gonna take longer.

5.75 grams comes from Mr Malty. 11 g seems a bit much for 2 gallons. The rehydrated batch is still showing signs of airlock activity and it's been three days. As of this morning still no activity on the other batch.
I'll let it go until tomorrow and if no activity I'll take some slurry from a Denny's I harvested and add that in an attempt to get it going.

 

[brew703]

I figured out the issue. I am using a bucket from the local grocery store and the lids do not seal as tight as a true fermentation bucket. I had taped the lid closed but assume the pressure was too much. The pressure lifted up one section of the lid which is why I did not see any activity. I was getting ready to leave for work and decided to check it and a mess. Luckily I placed the bucket in a pan so it caught the overflow. Cleaned the mess and re-taped the lid. Hopefully all will be good when I get home.

 

[eadavis80]

Leaky buckets can be a pain. Big Mouth Bubblers are the best for primary IMO - can SEE fermentation and they're easy to clean. I have 2 buckets and a Bubbler and I always use the Bubbler unless I end up having two beers in primary at the same time.

 

[brew703]

I'm gonna have to find something else. This is the second time I've used this bucket. The first time no issues. This time, I filled to within 1-1.5" from the top. Ended up taking an additional cup out but I guess it was still too much. Oh well. Live/learn for next time.
The big mouth bubblers are nice but too expensive (shipping wise). None of the LHBS in my area carry them.

 

[LostHopper]

I always re-hydrate and still experience 36-48 hours lag time with US05.

Same here. 36hrs usually to the minute. (I use USO5 a lot)
I get my wort pretty cool (60-62) and thought that might have been the reason. I use to fret about it but no more. "low and slow"

The only time I got quick fermentation activity was before I got my JaDed chiller and I once pitched the yeast in the mid 70s. Beer was ok but fermentation was a lot more "aggressive" with higher krausen and quicker fall.

 

[jmitchell3]

5.75 grams comes from Mr Malty. 11 g seems a bit much for 2 gallons. The rehydrated batch is still showing signs of airlock activity and it's been three days. As of this morning still no activity on the other batch.
I'll let it go until tomorrow and if no activity I'll take some slurry from a Denny's I harvested and add that in an attempt to get it going.

Glad you found the leak in the lid! Darned things like that throw off one's groove.

As to pitching rates, that Mr. Malty calc is basically assuming super fresh, well-handled yeast (unless you have the production date). Once those little packets are open, they (if well handled) will be viable about 1 week. Unless you have another brew going, might as well pitch the whole thing. Its very difficult to over-pitch on a homebrew scale, so pitching the whole thing on a medium gravity 2 gal batch would probably not be too much. I usually pitch 2 packets in full 5 gallon batches if I'm over 1.060. Just my .02, and of course, everyone's got opinions lol.

Happy brewing!

 

[pmg]

Is it normal to have my beer done within four days using Danstar Nottingham? I have no more airlock activity and all the yeast is at the bottom of the fermenter. I´ve never tried this yeast before, I usually use S-04 or Us-05 and take 6 or 7 days to finish.
The OG was 1061

 

[brew703]

Glad you found the leak in the lid! Darned things like that throw off one's groove.

As to pitching rates, that Mr. Malty calc is basically assuming super fresh, well-handled yeast (unless you have the production date). Once those little packets are open, they (if well handled) will be viable about 1 week. Unless you have another brew going, might as well pitch the whole thing. Its very difficult to over-pitch on a homebrew scale, so pitching the whole thing on a medium gravity 2 gal batch would probably not be too much. I usually pitch 2 packets in full 5 gallon batches if I'm over 1.060. Just my .02, and of course, everyone's got opinions lol.

Happy brewing!

Yep I know all about opinions LOL. 2 packets for 5 gallons does seem like a lot but if it works then who cares right?

I've never experienced much lag time with 05 as I did with the second batch. I know now that it's best to rehydrate vs sprinkle although I have done that before with no issues. With my two gallon batches, I usually split the yeast pack for two brews, which are done within a day apart at most.
I've never brewed anything over 1.070- usually try to stay in the 1.065 and below range so that I can brew two batches on one yeast pack. Probably not the best idea but it has worked good for me.

 

[brew703]

Is it normal to have my beer done within four days using Danstar Nottingham? I have no more airlock activity and all the yeast is at the bottom of the fermenter. I´ve never tried this yeast before, I usually use S-04 or Us-05 and take 6 or 7 days to finish.
The OG was 1061

I've used Notty one time and it was slow to start and didn't attenuate well. I think the yeast was bad. Anyway, airlock activity usually lasts 4 days or so for me regardless of the type of yeast I use so it's possible to be mostly done in 4 days. There are people who brew and in 10-14 days they are drinking. I allow 10-14 days before first gravity check regardless of activity. Let it go to 10 days then check and see where you are.

 

[Rhaop]

Is it normal to have my beer done within four days using Danstar Nottingham? I have no more airlock activity and all the yeast is at the bottom of the fermenter. I´ve never tried this yeast before, I usually use S-04 or Us-05 and take 6 or 7 days to finish.
The OG was 1061

I've used nottingham 3 times and us-04 3 times, they always ferment fast but no matter what temperature i have fermented at i hate the ester's they throw out, us-05 i have fermented low 60's to mid 70's and have enjoyed those beers

 

[pmg]

I've used Notty one time and it was slow to start and didn't attenuate well. I think the yeast was bad. Anyway, airlock activity usually lasts 4 days or so for me regardless of the type of yeast I use so it's possible to be mostly done in 4 days. There are people who brew and in 10-14 days they are drinking. I allow 10-14 days before first gravity check regardless of activity. Let it go to 10 days then check and see where you are.

Thanks. I was kinda worried about autolysis, but I guess one or two more days won't affect it. I hope so.

 

[brew703]

Get home from work and the lid open again. There is wort that expelled from the bucket.
My question is what are the chances this beer will be ok? I know since there is active fermentation going on that no nasties should be present.
Thoughts?

 

[brew_darrymore]

My question is what are the chances this beer will be ok?

The chances are very high it will be ok. Clean up the lid and put it back. Your beer will be fine.

 

[Rhaop]

Thanks. I was kinda worried about autolysis, but I guess one or two more days won't affect it. I hope so.

I've had beers in the primary bucket for 5-6 weeks with no ill effects, 14 days in the primary bucket is my standard minimum before i rack to package, big beers get at least 3 weeks

 

[olotti]

04 is a fine yeast and it ferments really fast and very violently and flocks really well, 05 is also a fine yeast but a different animal. Takes def longer to get going, doesn't flocc as good but once it gets going it'll be done in 3 days regardless if the temps are low 60's or 70 and you rarely get any esters it's a very clean yeast unlike 04 which to me is a little more finicky, fermented to high and you'll def notice the over the top esters. They both have their place depending on what your going for.

 

[jmitchell3]

Yep I know all about opinions LOL. 2 packets for 5 gallons does seem like a lot but if it works then who cares right?

I've never experienced much lag time with 05 as I did with the second batch. I know now that it's best to rehydrate vs sprinkle although I have done that before with no issues. With my two gallon batches, I usually split the yeast pack for two brews, which are done within a day apart at most.
I've never brewed anything over 1.070- usually try to stay in the 1.065 and below range so that I can brew two batches on one yeast pack. Probably not the best idea but it has worked good for me.

So aside from the calculators that are available, doing some "back of the envelope math" was an interesting exercise for me:

Using the information directly from Fermentis' website (http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf) RE cell counts in US-05, they indicate a minimum viable cell count of 6 bln cells per gram at packaging (> 6x10^9 / g).

With an 11.5g package, that's a minimum of 69 billion cells TOTAL. 2 gallons = 2 * 3800 ml = 7600 ml of wort at pitching. 1.050 OG, for example, would be ~12.5 plato * 7600 = 95,000.

So a pitching rate of 0.75 million cells per ml of wort per degree plato would be 95,000 * 750,000 cells or 71.25 billion cells. Which is more than the advertised minimum viable cells in an 11.5g packet of US-05.

I would also like to add that per the info at the brewersfriend pitch rate calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram) it appears that no one really knows how many viable cells are in any given dry yeast pack...at least that's the impression I got when I read the deets on the calculator assumptions...

All that said, I've pitched a single rehydrated pack of dry yeast into 5 gal of ~12.5 plato wort and it still made good beer :smack: