Unpleasant/bitter flavor on the back of my tongue from BIAB in AG batches, post fermentation

[nickbarley]

I've been brewing all-grain BIAB for about a year now, and I've been getting this harsh (possibly astringent) off-flavor in my beers post fermentation. I assume it's chlorophenols from the chlorine/chloramine reacting with the yeast, but I've treated the batches with Campden tablets and even phosphoric acid %10 (about 30ml per 3 gallon batch). I also added salts, such as CaCl, Gypsum and Epsom to the mash based on a "balanced" profile in Beersmith. This last batch was an Anchor Steam clone with a basic grain bill of 5.6 lbs 2-row, 8 oz C-40 and 8 oz of C-60. I used Mangrove Jack's m54 and pitched the yeast at 70 degrees and fermented it between 65 and 68 degrees in my temperature controlled mini fridge.

I've tried using distilled water and spring water, and I believe the spring water yielded my best batch. However, I am confused as to why the Campden tablets are not working if the flavor is in fact chlorophenols. Also, if I'm hitting a pH reading between 5.2-5.5, where is this astringency coming from?

I am stumped. Please let me know where I'm going wrong.

 

[marc1]

Let's get all the details on the Anchor Steam clone as an example to troubleshoot. Walk through your entire process in order from the start. We can try to figure this out!

 

[Jayjay1976]

There are lots of variables to look at, but I had the same exact experience over dozens of batches and what finally solved it for me was opening up the gap in my grain mill. No more 'mud' in my fermenter and the unpleasant bitter, astringent flavor went away completely. My efficiency didn't even change, rock solid at 77% and I always hit my numbers.

I hope this helps you. I was almost ready to quit.

 

[nickbarley]

Let's get all the details on the Anchor Steam clone as an example to troubleshoot. Walk through your entire process in order from the start. We can try to figure this out!

Okay here was my brew day:

Batch Size: 3.5 gallons
Water: 5 gallons of local tap water treated with 1/4 tablet of campden
CA: 52.3 ppm
MG: 13.8 ppm
NA: 18.1 ppm
SO4: 74
CL: 61.7
Bicarbonate: 74

Grain Bill:
5.6 lbs - 2 row
8 oz - crystal 40
8 oz - crystal 60

Hops:
15g Northern Brewer (8% AA) 60 min
15g Northern Brewer (8% AA) 20 min

Yeast:
1 packet of Mangrove Jack M54

SG: 1.059
FG: 1.015

I washed my 7.5 gallon brew kettle with PBW. I prepared a half gallon of boiling water and added my brewing salts and campden tablet. I initially mashed in with only 3 gallons of water to try and create a "thicker" mash to battle the high pH values I was getting. However, the pH was very low at about 4.6, so I added the remaining 2 gallons of water and the pH stabilized to about 5.2.

I mashed at around 150-152 for an hour. I had to stir and manually raise the temp a few times with my gas burner. After that, I drained the mesh bag and squeezed out the remaining wort. I do like to extract as much wort as I can because people have advised me that I can't extract tannins with my hands.

I started the boil and added my FWH of 15g of Northern Brewer in a muslin bag, and then another 15g at 20 minutes. I forgot to add my yeast nutrient and whirlfloc tablet. At 15 minutes, I put in my copper immersion chiller, then started to cool the wort down.

I did notice that I did not add enough water and overshot my SG, as it came out to 1.061, when it was supposed to be 1.052.

I took my temperature readings and got the wort chilled down to about 70 degrees after 15-20 minutes. I let the wort sit for another 15 minutes to try and let the trub settle. Then I got my rehydrated yeast ready during that downtime. Once the wort was reading 70 degrees, I pitched the packet of yeast into the carboy.

I did try something new on this batch in particular. I used a carboy cap and stainless steel thermowell to try and read the internal temp, but I ended up creating a bad seal with the carboy cap and noticed that during primary fermentation, the CO2 from the yeast was not bubbling in the airlock. So there was definitely a bad seal.

Fermented at 65-68 degrees for 5 days before racking the beer to my keg. Despite the bad seal, the yeast tore through the batch and the FG was 1.015.

I transferred the beer using an auto siphon directly into my CO2 purged keg and cold crashed over the next 2 days and then fined with gelatin. I hit it with 15 psi of gas for 2 days and it's looking nice. I will upload a picture tomorrow. The head retention is pretty good and color is spot on. It is a bit cloudy and appears to have a little chill haze.

I think I made some mistakes along the way, such as not oxygenating my wort nearly enough, not adding yeast nutrient and also trying the new carboy cap and having a bad seal. However, I'm not exactly sure if those would cause the off flavors.

I still suspect it has something to do with pH because this off-flavor has been present in nearly every batch.

 

[nickbarley]

There are lots of variables to look at, but I had the same exact experience over dozens of batches and what finally solved it for me was opening up the gap in my grain mill. No more 'mud' in my fermenter and the unpleasant bitter, astringent flavor went away completely. My efficiency didn't even change, rock solid at 77% and I always hit my numbers.

I hope this helps you. I was almost ready to quit.

Thanks for the tip! I did have a somewhat finer crush than what my LHBS does, so I will try to widen my gap setting and see if I can just gently crack the husks and maybe not leave in so much particulate.

 

[PrrCabin]

Nickbarley
Let us know what you find

 

[RM-MN]

Fermented at 65-68 degrees for 5 days before racking the beer to my keg. Despite the bad seal, the yeast tore through the batch and the FG was 1.015.

I transferred the beer using an auto siphon directly into my CO2 purged keg and cold crashed over the next 2 days and then fined with gelatin. I hit it with 15 psi of gas for 2 days and it's looking nice. I will upload a picture tomorrow. The head retention is pretty good and color is spot on. It is a bit cloudy and appears to have a little chill haze.

Try giving the next few batches enough time to complete the ferment before you keg, then give it time to mature a bit before you chill it. You still have suspended yeast which is evidenced by the cloudiness and that doesn't have the most pleasant taste.

Leave the beer in the fermenter until at least day 10. From day 5 to day 10 let the beer be at room temp. That helps the yeast clean up the last of the fermentable sugars and do the cleanup of intermediate products. Keg it on day 10 or later, then leave the keg at room temp for another 3 to 5 days before chilling it. Give the beer 48 hours of chilling before the first pour. The taste you are getting has nothing to do with BIAB nor the fine crush.

 

[madscientist451]

Okay here was my brew day:

Batch Size: 3.5 gallons
Water: 5 gallons of local tap water treated with 1/4 tablet of campden
CA: 52.3 ppm
MG: 13.8 ppm
NA: 18.1 ppm
SO4: 74
CL: 61.7
Bicarbonate: 74



I washed my 7.5 gallon brew kettle with PBW.

I prepared a half gallon of boiling water and added my brewing salts and campden tablet.



I think I made some mistakes along the way, such as not oxygenating my wort nearly enough, not adding yeast nutrient and also trying the new carboy cap and having a bad seal. However, I'm not exactly sure if those would cause the off flavors.

I still suspect it has something to do with pH because this off-flavor has been present in nearly every batch.

Did you get all the PBW rinsed out of the kettle? Also, if the kettle was cleaned after the previous brew, why did you need to use PBW on it again?

Exactly what and how much "brewing salts" were added?

If the yeast finished in 5 days, why are you saying you made a mistake by not adding yeast nutrient or oxygenating enough?

Is there a chance the water report is inaccurate? Perhaps the water provider changes water sources as the seasons change?

If you brew with just distilled/spring water and don't add any chemicals at all, do you still get the same off flavor?

 

[LittleRiver]

... You still have suspended yeast... The taste you are getting has nothing to do with BIAB nor the fine crush.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I crush fine (.025") for BIAB with city water (treated with Campden) and I don't get that taste.

I usually ferment for two weeks, then do a cold crash for a few days before kegging. I use the "set and forget" method of carbonating, which takes at least a week. I use top draw pickup tubes in my kegs. The first pour is nice clear beer, without yeasty flavors.

 

[Spivey24]

There are lots of variables to look at, but I had the same exact experience over dozens of batches and what finally solved it for me was opening up the gap in my grain mill. No more 'mud' in my fermenter and the unpleasant bitter, astringent flavor went away completely. My efficiency didn't even change, rock solid at 77% and I always hit my numbers.

I hope this helps you. I was almost ready to quit.

What did you open it to, and do you biab? I have been fighting a similar harshness. I double mill, first at .06 then at .025 for biab. My mill gets jammed if I try to do it in one pass. Wonder if i need to open it a bit the second pass.

 

[MikeCo]

One other thing to check...
I had a bad taste in my beers a year ago, kind of like a bitter apsirin after-taste. I finally determined it was coming from my beer lines which had gotten old and discolored. After replacing the lines, the bad taste was gone.

 

[Jayjay1976]

What did you open it to, and do you biab? I have been fighting a similar harshness. I double mill, first at .06 then at .025 for biab. My mill gets jammed if I try to do it in one pass. Wonder if i need to open it a bit the second pass.

I set the gap to just barely grip a credit card. When I started brewing I jumped into BIAB I just left my cereal killer how it came set from the factory which is about half that. The mill gap had crossed my mind once or twice but I had read that you should crush finer for BIAB. The fact that a fine crush won't cause a stuck sparge since BIAB is a different technique, but that doesn't mean a too fine crush can't cause off flavors. The result was shredded husks evidenced by a layer of mud in my fermenter that was slightly darker than the settled yeast. As a new brewer I didn't realize anything was wrong with all that trub.

I chased the source of that bitter, astringent flavor over about 3 dozen batches, thinking the problem was somewhere in my recipes, ingredients, just about everything except my crush, and chalked it up to my amateur technique. Along the way I bought an RO filter setup, learned water chemistry and how to adjust pH, built a ferm chamber, and tried a bunch of different base malts.

I was on the verge of quitting altogether when I thought, why not mess with that mill gap?

Bingo.


Oh I should add, all this happened before I got into kegging, and my sanitation practices have always been meticulous.

 

[marc1]

I prepared a half gallon of boiling water and added my brewing salts and campden tablet. I initially mashed in with only 3 gallons of water to try and create a "thicker" mash to battle the high pH values I was getting. However, the pH was very low at about 4.6, so I added the remaining 2 gallons of water and the pH stabilized to about 5.2.


I let the wort sit for another 15 minutes to try and let the trub settle. Then I got my rehydrated yeast ready during that downtime. Once the wort was reading 70 degrees, I pitched the packet of yeast into the carboy.

Let's get more detail here.

You boiled 1/2 gallon of water and added Campden and brewing salts to it? What about the rest of the water? What salts/acids did you add and how much? Why are you boiling 1/2 gallon instead of bringing your entire mash volume up to strike temp? Sorry if this seems tediously focused on minutia, I don't have a good picture of what's going on.

I don't think mash thickness within reasonable values will cause dramatic shifts in pH. Maybe if your water had absurd levels of various ions, but it seems relatively low in things. You should pick a thickness that you can deal with and use that.

How are you measuring pH? 4.6 is really low. Adding a bit more water doesn't seem like it should change things that drastically.

How are you transferring to the carboy? Do you whirlpool and then rack from around the trub cone?

 

[nickbarley]

Let's get more detail here.

You boiled 1/2 gallon of water and added Campden and brewing salts to it? What about the rest of the water? What salts/acids did you add and how much? Why are you boiling 1/2 gallon instead of bringing your entire mash volume up to strike temp? Sorry if this seems tediously focused on minutia, I don't have a good picture of what's going on.

I don't think mash thickness within reasonable values will cause dramatic shifts in pH. Maybe if your water had absurd levels of various ions, but it seems relatively low in things. You should pick a thickness that you can deal with and use that.

How are you measuring pH? 4.6 is really low. Adding a bit more water doesn't seem like it should change things that drastically.

How are you transferring to the carboy? Do you whirlpool and then rack from around the trub cone?

I boiled the 1/2 gallon of water to combine all of the salts and campden, then I added that to my strike water. Everything was incorporated before I mashed in.

I'm measuring pH with my pH meter, and by taking a sample from the wort 15 minutes after initial mash-in. Wait for it to cool to room temp. The pH did stabilize at 5.2 once the full volume of water was added and sample cooled down to room temp.

I transfer to the carboy by just carefully pouring the wort from my kettle through a strainer and funnel.

 

[nickbarley]

Try giving the next few batches enough time to complete the ferment before you keg, then give it time to mature a bit before you chill it. You still have suspended yeast which is evidenced by the cloudiness and that doesn't have the most pleasant taste.

Leave the beer in the fermenter until at least day 10. From day 5 to day 10 let the beer be at room temp. That helps the yeast clean up the last of the fermentable sugars and do the cleanup of intermediate products. Keg it on day 10 or later, then leave the keg at room temp for another 3 to 5 days before chilling it. Give the beer 48 hours of chilling before the first pour. The taste you are getting has nothing to do with BIAB nor the fine crush.

Thanks for your advice. I did notice in my pilsner batch that I had bottled instead of kegged that it did clean up over the course of 1 month in the refrigerator and the harshness did seem to dissipate. I'll give the next batch some time for the yeast to clean up and flavors to mature.

 

[nickbarley]

Did you get all the PBW rinsed out of the kettle? Also, if the kettle was cleaned after the previous brew, why did you need to use PBW on it again?

Exactly what and how much "brewing salts" were added?

If the yeast finished in 5 days, why are you saying you made a mistake by not adding yeast nutrient or oxygenating enough?

Is there a chance the water report is inaccurate? Perhaps the water provider changes water sources as the seasons change?

If you brew with just distilled/spring water and don't add any chemicals at all, do you still get the same off flavor?

I believe I thoroughly rinsed the PBW out of the kettle. I had some streaking/discoloration on the bottom of the kettle, so I just used a bit more PBW to ensure it wasn't sediment from the last batch.

Here were the amounts of minerals added to the strike water:
1.35g Epsom
1.23g Gypsum
1.12g CaCl

I took my water report from the month of August, as that was the only available report:
https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/defaul...vices/SPRWS_2020_AUG_MonthlyMineralReport.pdf
When I brewed with both distilled/spring water, I did add a similar amount of minerals to get a desired profile based off standard Sulfate to Chloride ratios and the amount of Calcium. Typically somewhere in the ballpark of 80 ppm SO4 and 120 ppm Cl to get a nice mouth feel.

 

[nickbarley]

One other thing to check...
I had a bad taste in my beers a year ago, kind of like a bitter apsirin after-taste. I finally determined it was coming from my beer lines which had gotten old and discolored. After replacing the lines, the bad taste was gone.

I'll try changing out the lines to see if I can eliminate those variables.

 

[nickbarley]

I set the gap to just barely grip a credit card. When I started brewing I jumped into BIAB I just left my cereal killer how it came set from the factory which is about half that. The mill gap had crossed my mind once or twice but I had read that you should crush finer for BIAB. The fact that a fine crush won't cause a stuck sparge since BIAB is a different technique, but that doesn't mean a too fine crush can't cause off flavors. The result was shredded husks evidenced by a layer of mud in my fermenter that was slightly darker than the settled yeast. As a new brewer I didn't realize anything was wrong with all that trub.

I chased the source of that bitter, astringent flavor over about 3 dozen batches, thinking the problem was somewhere in my recipes, ingredients, just about everything except my crush, and chalked it up to my amateur technique. Along the way I bought an RO filter setup, learned water chemistry and how to adjust pH, built a ferm chamber, and tried a bunch of different base malts.

I was on the verge of quitting altogether when I thought, why not mess with that mill gap?

Bingo.


Oh I should add, all this happened before I got into kegging, and my sanitation practices have always been meticulous.

Thanks for the background info, as I find myself going through all of the same troubleshooting techniques. I think I still do need to nail down my pH readings properly and give the wider gap a try on this next batch.

 

[Yooper]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the mash pH. 4.6? That would require quite a bit of acid, and it doesn't seem you added any. How did you calibrate your pH meter? The astringency you describe seems to be most commonly caused by a high mash pH or a high pH in the sparge water.

 

[nickbarley]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the mash pH. 4.6? That would require quite a bit of acid, and it doesn't seem you added any. How did you calibrate your pH meter? The astringency you describe seems to be most commonly caused by a high mash pH or a high pH in the sparge water.

I have to admit, the 4.6 pH reading was not at room temperature. That was an on-the-fly reading at 150 F and with only 3 gallons of water, as opposed to 5 gallons of full volume. I sometimes try to gauge how low/high the pH might be at strike temp, and I think 4.6 at that temperature would actually be something more like 4.9 at room temp. Correct me if I'm wrong to assume that.

I did add 30ml of 10% phosphoric acid at around 20 minutes into the mash.

I haven't officially calibrated the pH meter, but have only gauged an approximate accuracy based on taking a reading of the water at room temp and looking at my water report.

I have to agree that my pH readings haven't been very thorough or scientific, so I might try calibrating and mashing in a full volume on my next batch to make sure I nail a correct reading.

This is what I've been using: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Accu...ld=1&keywords=ph+meter&qid=1603464049&sr=8-11

 

[marc1]

I have to admit, the 4.6 pH reading was not at room temperature. That was an on-the-fly reading at 150 F and with only 3 gallons of water, as opposed to 5 gallons of full volume. I sometimes try to gauge how low/high the pH might be at strike temp, and I think 4.6 at that temperature would actually be something more like 4.9 at room temp. Correct me if I'm wrong to assume that.

I did add 30ml of 10% phosphoric acid at around 20 minutes into the mash.

I haven't officially calibrated the pH meter, but have only gauged an approximate accuracy based on taking a reading of the water at room temp and looking at my water report.

I have to agree that my pH readings haven't been very thorough or scientific, so I might try calibrating and mashing in a full volume on my next batch to make sure I nail a correct reading.

This is what I've been using: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Accu...ld=1&keywords=ph+meter&qid=1603464049&sr=8-11

Ignore all of your pH readings, they are not informative because it has never been calibrated. The pH of your starting water is a terrible gauge of pH meter accuracy, it is not a good buffer and can change on its own. Bad data is worse than no data. pH meters should be calibrated before every use.

Also, you said 15 minutes into the mash the pH was 5.2, then at 20 minutes into the mash you added phosphoric?

 

[marc1]

I boiled the 1/2 gallon of water to combine all of the salts and campden, then I added that to my strike water. Everything was incorporated before I mashed in.

I'm measuring pH with my pH meter, and by taking a sample from the wort 15 minutes after initial mash-in. Wait for it to cool to room temp. The pH did stabilize at 5.2 once the full volume of water was added and sample cooled down to room temp.

I transfer to the carboy by just carefully pouring the wort from my kettle through a strainer and funnel.

Don't do that. Salts will dissolve in the room temp water. Some are actually less soluble at higher temps IIRC. I'm not sure, but boiling the Campden may be reducing its effectiveness. Anyone know for sure?

Anyway, try dissolving the salts in the full volume of your mash water. And add the Campden to your full volume of all water that you are using for the batch.

 

[nickbarley]

Ignore all of your pH readings, they are not informative because it has never been calibrated. The pH of your starting water is a terrible gauge of pH meter accuracy, it is not a good buffer and can change on its own. Bad data is worse than no data. pH meters should be calibrated before every use.

Also, you said 15 minutes into the mash the pH was 5.2, then at 20 minutes into the mash you added phosphoric?

I misspoke on that section. I added 2 gallons to the initial 3 gallons to make 5 in total volume. At that point, I took a reading and it was high from what I recall. I then added the phosphoric acid and took a sample and waited for that to cool down.

I think you're right in that I should disregard these readings altogether because the pH meter has not been calibrated. The actual pH values may still be out of range and I have no idea. I'll calibrate the pH meter going forward, and add the minerals to my full volume strike water, then take a reading after 15 minutes. Hopefully at that point I can get a "true" reading of what my pH really is. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[marc1]

I misspoke on that section. I added 2 gallons to the initial 3 gallons to make 5 in total volume. At that point, I took a reading and it was high from what I recall. I then added the phosphoric acid and took a sample and waited for that to cool down.

I think you're right in that I should disregard these readings altogether because the pH meter has not been calibrated. The actual pH values may still be out of range and I have no idea. I'll calibrate the pH meter going forward, and add the minerals to my full volume strike water, then take a reading after 15 minutes. Hopefully at that point I can get a "true" reading of what my pH really is. Thanks for the feedback.

The pH stuff can be complicated. After calibration, you can go back and measure the calibration buffers to see how good the meter is doing.

The pH can change over the course of the mash as well, so for your own purposes you should pick a time to compare your batches against and use that. Or monitor over the mash, e.g. 15, 30, 45, 60 minutes, to see what it does, and then you'll have an idea for future batches.

I think the new and improved pH information will be informative and can help you improve your beer over time, but I don't think it's the reason for your off flavor. Your additions weren't such that the pH should have been crazily out of whack.

If you plan out all of your additions for your no sparge mash, get everything added beforehand to get it all standardized, and try the slightly larger grind, I think you have a good chance of figuring this out. It will at least rule stuff out.

Good luck!

 

[nickbarley]

The pH stuff can be complicated. After calibration, you can go back and measure the calibration buffers to see how good the meter is doing.

The pH can change over the course of the mash as well, so for your own purposes you should pick a time to compare your batches against and use that. Or monitor over the mash, e.g. 15, 30, 45, 60 minutes, to see what it does, and then you'll have an idea for future batches.

I think the new and improved pH information will be informative and can help you improve your beer over time, but I don't think it's the reason for your off flavor. Your additions weren't such that the pH should have been crazily out of whack.

If you plan out all of your additions for your no sparge mash, get everything added beforehand to get it all standardized, and try the slightly larger grind, I think you have a good chance of figuring this out. It will at least rule stuff out.

Good luck!

Much appreciated advice! I have a Spotted Cow clone recipe lined up for my next batch, so I'll document my steps and reply back with my processes/findings.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I believe I thoroughly rinsed the PBW out of the kettle. I had some streaking/discoloration on the bottom of the kettle, so I just used a bit more PBW to ensure it wasn't sediment from the last batch.

Here were the amounts of minerals added to the strike water:
1.35g Epsom
1.23g Gypsum
1.12g CaCl

I took my water report from the month of August, as that was the only available report:
https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/defaul...vices/SPRWS_2020_AUG_MonthlyMineralReport.pdf
When I brewed with both distilled/spring water, I did add a similar amount of minerals to get a desired profile based off standard Sulfate to Chloride ratios and the amount of Calcium. Typically somewhere in the ballpark of 80 ppm SO4 and 120 ppm Cl to get a nice mouth feel.

I no longer use anything to clean my kettle.
i spray it down post boil and run a kitchen brush around the inside to get the matter out then flip it upside down to dry until the next batch.
i'm boiling it for 60+ mins.
I realized there really is no need to use anything to clean it.

 

[Beermeister32]

I'd take a look at the water again, chlorine cleans up quicker with campden tablets than chloramine, which might take overnight to dissipate. Either that or switch over to bottled. My SoCal water source is terrible, the chloramine can't reliably be removed quickly and causes off flavored phenolic taste.

 

[WesBrew]

Looks like its been well covered. My first thought was ph calibration . Dirty beer lines , then fusels.

 

[wsmith1625]

Don't do that. Salts will dissolve in the room temp water. Some are actually less soluble at higher temps IIRC. I'm not sure, but boiling the Campden may be reducing its effectiveness. Anyone know for sure?

Anyway, try dissolving the salts in the full volume of your mash water. And add the Campden to your full volume of all water that you are using for the batch.

I don't know the result of boiling camden tablets, but I suggest treating the full water volume the day before brewing. Chlorine will off gas naturally, so adding brewing salts and campden tablet the night before gives adequate time for off gassing. Just don't cover your buckets.

Also, how much of the campden tablet are you using. Half a tablet will treat 10 gallons of water. They're hard to split evenly, so I use a scale.

https://wineandhop.com/blogs/news/15655249-removing-chlorine-chloramine-from-brewing-water

 

[nickbarley]

I don't know the result of boiling camden tablets, but I suggest treating the full water volume the day before brewing. Chlorine will off gas naturally, so adding brewing salts and campden tablet the night before gives adequate time for off gassing. Just don't cover your buckets.

Also, how much of the campden tablet are you using. Half a tablet will treat 10 gallons of water. They're hard to split evenly, so I use a scale.

https://wineandhop.com/blogs/news/15655249-removing-chlorine-chloramine-from-brewing-water

I was using a quarter of a tablet for 5 gallons pre-boil. I may try RO water on this next batch and possibly a smaller batch with tap water and leave it out over night with the campden added in.

 

[wsmith1625]

I was using a quarter of a tablet for 5 gallons pre-boil. I may try RO water on this next batch and possibly a smaller batch with tap water and leave it out over night with the campden added in.

Can't hurt, but it's probably not the source of your off flavor. I'm leaning towards grain crush although I don't notice any astringency in my beer and I keep the gap set to .025. How about scorching? Have you noticed any burnt wort on the bottom of your brew kettle?

 

[nickbarley]

Can't hurt, but it's probably not the source of your off flavor. I'm leaning towards grain crush although I don't notice any astringency in my beer and I keep the gap set to .025. How about scorching? Have you noticed any burnt wort on the bottom of your brew kettle?

I'm going to try a wider gap setting next batch. Scorching has not happened yet, I stir the mash every 15 minutes or so when I check the temp.

 

[wsmith1625]

I'm going to try a wider gap setting next batch. Scorching has not happened yet, I stir the mash every 15 minutes or so when I check the temp.

I actually meant scorching during the boil, but you would have realized that if you were. Good luck on that next brew and let us know how you make out.

 

[WesBrew]

Grain husk getting into the boiler? Prob not. still likely a ph issue. if its right, your fine milling shouldn't be an issue.

 

[nickbarley]

Grain husk getting into the boiler? Prob not. still likely a ph issue. if its right your fine milling shouldn't be an issue.

It's possible that tiny bits of husk are getting boiled, but I'm not sure how to explain those with finer or even double crushes having clean flavors. I am leaning towards the pH extracting tannins but I will certainly clean and sanitize all of my gear as well before pointing that out.

I checked my last used gap setting on my cereal killer and it was actually wider than a credit card, around .035. It's now set at .050 for my next batch.

 

[ajbosley2015]

I think you’ll find that your pH is likely inconsequential regardless of what everyone says.

I’ve been to countless breweries that do nothing to the adjust pH and still make outstanding beer.

 

[nickbarley]

I think you’ll find that your pH is likely inconsequential regardless of what everyone says.

I’ve been to countless breweries that do nothing to the adjust pH and still make outstanding beer.

You may be right. But I'm sure they also filter their water and aren't doing brew in a bag. I could always try a three tier setup.

 

[ajbosley2015]

You may be right. But I'm sure they also filter their water and aren't doing brew in a bag. I could always try a three tier setup.

BiaB has nothing to do with it man.
And I was just at a local brewery today. No flirtation. City water. No chemicals.
Blonde
Prohibition porter
3 different IPAs
Hefe
Stout
Dunkel
3 different wheats
Czech pils
Blackberry sour
2 different lagers
The IPAs need work but everything is on point and they don’t mind pH. I’m good friends with the owner and the head brewer and they just don’t care about it.

Its not obvious.

The issue isn’t pH

 

[ajbosley2015]

The issue isn’t milling either. I know guys that BiaB and mill to flour and get extremely good beer. Just sayin

 

[nickbarley]

The issue isn’t milling either. I know guys that BiaB and mill to flour and get extremely good beer. Just sayin

Hard to compare a professional brewery with someone who is new and trying to get some helpful feedback.