unmalted wheat use in Witbiers

[LuizArgh]

People, i'm going for a batch of my first witbier in the next few days, but I have a doubt. In some recipes, I have seen only a base-malt+unmalted wheat, in a base of 50/50, but something sounds fishy over that - as unmalted wheat, for what I remember, don't contribute with any sugars. A few guys a met who made already witbiers confirmed that a certain % of malted wheat is necessary, but I'm yet to see a consensus on that.

My true fear is overusing the unmalted grains and creating a low-OG beer or underusing and losing the witbier characteristic.

so, questions:

1) Do unmalted grains like wheat contribute in any way at all with starch convertion?
2) is it possible to make a witbeer with only 50% os base (pilsner) malt and 50% unmalted wheat or the malted wheat is necessary? In that case, a recipe of 50% base malt, 10% malted wheat and 40% unmalted is enough?
3) about the spices: should I crack the coriander seed or can I put them in whole form? And the orange peel, i just take it from the oranges and throw them in the boil - or should I dry them or something like that?
4) would be ANY benefit from and extra 10% of flaked Oat on the above mentioned recipes?

thanks folks!

 

[squeekysheep]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/torrefied-wheat-versus-regular-unmalted-wheat-62764/


So what the heck is a Cereal Mash anyway? Basically, a Cereal Mash is used to break down the starches in un-malted grains (or other adjuncts) to make them more easily accessible to the enzymes in the main mash. Typically you would use it for grain bills that include a large amount of corn or rice – but it could be done with any un malted grain or other starch source.


Cereal Mashing – How To Do It and Why You Shouldn’t Bother | Hopwild.com

hope that helps

 

[wilserbrewer]

1)Base grain contains excess enzymes and will convert unmalted wheat in the grist.

2) Not sure of the exact ratio of malted barley to adjunct grains to achieve conversion. I don't usually push much more than a third w/ 2 row, the big boys BMC use 6 row (i believe).

3) yes crack the coriander. Use just the zest of the orange (orange color), don't use the white (pith)

4) absolutely, lots of people use 10% oats .

I'll leave you with this to ponder...I've mashed spaghetti (100% duram wheat) in some pretty nicebrews, cook the s--t out of it to gelatanize it prior to mashing. hah

 

[z987k]

1)Base grain contains excess enzymes and will convert unmalted wheat in the grist.

2) Not sure of the exact ratio of malted barley to adjunct grains to achieve conversion. I don't usually push much more than a third w/ 2 row, the big boys BMC use 6 row (i believe).

3) yes crack the coriander. Use just the zest of the orange (orange color), don't use the white (pith)

4) absolutely, lots of people use 10% oats .

I'll leave you with this to ponder...I've mashed spaghetti (100% duram wheat) in some pretty nicebrews, cook the s--t out of it to gelatanize it prior to mashing. hah

What he said.
The unmated wheat just can't convert itself, but the base malt will take care of that if there's enough of it.

I use 40% pils, 50% unmalted wheat and 10% flaked oats in my wit. Single decoction with a protein rest.

 

[FlyGuy]

1)Base grain contains excess enzymes and will convert unmalted wheat in the grist.

2) Not sure of the exact ratio of malted barley to adjunct grains to achieve conversion. I don't usually push much more than a third w/ 2 row, the big boys BMC use 6 row (i believe).

3) yes crack the coriander. Use just the zest of the orange (orange color), don't use the white (pith)

4) absolutely, lots of people use 10% oats .

I'll leave you with this to ponder...I've mashed spaghetti (100% duram wheat) in some pretty nicebrews, cook the s--t out of it to gelatanize it prior to mashing. hah

Bang on. And like z987k says, a decoction (or step mash) will benefit the beer as well.

If you don't want to mess with all that, malted wheat is OK too. Most people will never know the difference unless you put the two versions side by side.

 

[z987k]

Bang on. And like z987k says, a decoction (or step mash) will benefit the beer as well.

If you don't want to mess with all that, malted wheat is OK too. Most people will never know the difference unless you put the two versions side by side.

People without a palate for wits wont

The decoction will help break down those startches a lot. After all decoctions were used to help with conversion in poorly modified malts... unmalted is rather poor I would say
A step mash alone will not, although you can break down some of the protein that unmalted wheat has a ton of.

I will also go with a touch of acid malt.