Unfortunate mashtun.

[acrowe]

That said, I think my wife would say toss it and replace it before I drink anything you make.

 

[cire]

That said, I think my wife would say toss it and replace it before I drink anything you make.

Ah well, when there's a choice between beer and a wife's command, it might be a hard decision, but the answer is obvious regardless of logic.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Most years I get rush of mice where I'll catch one about every day for about a week, then it stops till next year. I know where they enter so I set traps on the top of the foundation wall.
I just have to check each morning so none get too-ripe.

I have narrowed their arrival time to between 800 and 2300 hrs. in most cases. So I can sometimes clear and reset the trap before I go to bed. Then there Usually is not another till the next night. I have on occasion caught two in 12 hrs but that is rare.

I am vigilant because I store my grain down there in food-safe pails with Gamma lids. I have never found any evidence of attempted entry to those. I always sweep and vacuum after handling the grain to reduce any bait smell as much as possible.
So far so good but I know it is highly possible that one will get in sometime. That should be obvious because they will have to chew through the polyethylene to get in. I'm not even sure they would.

That's my experience too. We have a nice wooded area behind our house. Usually catch one or two a week until Thanksgiving, then I'm good.

I was catching 1 or 2 per day a couple weeks ago!

I don't store any grains, but this is just general basementry things: Christmas lights, old clothes, tools, etc.

 

[PCABrewing]

Yes I wouldn't be too stressed about using it, if I could really get at all parts to scrub it clean then being plastic give it a bleach soak. I agree toss any tubing that cant really be cleaned. In the food supply system live and dead rodents are a fact of life even though we want to think it isn't.
One time I somehow unplugged a freezer with a chicken and a box of fudgsicles in it, then was away doing camp work for 4 months before I opened it. It was not a pleasant experience, but i sprayed it out then soaked it with a bleach solution and kept using it.
The grain we use is in almost certainly in touch with rodent feces etc. I either don't notice or don't know what beer would taste like without it

There is even a specification for the amount of allowable rodent hair and insect parts in most grain-based foods.

 

[superiorsat]

That said, I think my wife would say toss it and replace it before I drink anything you make.

Agee with @acrowe. A quick survey of you friends and your spouse if you have one that drink your beer on a regular basis would help you make your decision. I'd take this survey before your all sitting around drinking the rat beer. Never know who might go all mad cow on you!

 

[Cammanron]

So I live out in the country and I’ve noticed a nasty smell in my garage over the last week or two. The good news is found it today the bad news is it was coming from my 5 gal igloo mashtun.
The mashtun is was in good shape until this. Big question is will it be safe to use if I throughly clean and disinfect it or is there too much risk of the plastics retaining a chemical memory of what decomposed fluids may have been at the bottom?

fwiw aside from the odor it doesn’t appear to be stained or anything it looks like the false bottom tubing kept said rodent from completely resting on the bottom.

save or toss?

Full strength chlorine bleach.... That kills everything... and also kills the smell. I learned from a chef that he uses bleach on cutting boards to remove taste and smell...

 

[Cammanron]

I'd be more concerned about bad flavors lingering in the cooler MT. IMO/IME, cooler mash tuns are cheap, so not much of a deal to simply replace it. If the OP decides to 'clean it out' and use it, it could be interesting to see if any off flavors are in the beer(s) that are made with it. I wouldn't risk grains and hops to that effort though.

Of course, I'm using stainless kettles for my setup, so less worries. I also make sure the system is closed so that nothing can crawl into anything and die there.

Since it is just the mashtun and NOT the fermenter, seems like and any issues would be small, since the wort is only in contact for 90 mins at most...

 

[Golddiggie]

Since it is just the mashtun and NOT the fermenter, seems like and any issues would be small, since the wort is only in contact for 90 mins at most...

IMO, I'd rather toss the cheap MT than have any risk of issue. It's not like we can't get new coolers at stores. IF it was stainless, there's a LOT more you could do to get it back to a 'known good' state. If you're taking the time to mash grain, why use anything that you'll have concerns about??

Luckily, I'm no longer using any plastic vessels for my brewing or fermenting.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

You need a decoy mash tun. Maybe put some Miller beer in it

 

[Cammanron]

That's my experience too. We have a nice wooded area behind our house. Usually catch one or two a week until Thanksgiving, then I'm good.

I was catching 1 or 2 per day a couple weeks ago!

I don't store any grains, but this is just general basementry things: Christmas lights, old clothes, tools, etc.

I sometimes get them in my attic.... My kids saw one running up the wall going up...
I put traps under the overhang along the wall of the house.

This year I got 9 of those little Fockers...
No more for this season , I think

 

[slayer021175666]

Check out the Cock Ale recipe in Charlie Papasian's new complete Joy of homebrewing. It calls for a whole chicken in the beer! Holy freekin wow!!! It's not a rat but, Jesus! It's a whole damn chicken and that is gross enough for me! Says to pluck it, pummel it and smash it's bones! If any of you dare devil's out there try making that recipe, you are one manly man for sure! Tell me how it turned out!

 

[Cammanron]

Check out the Cock Ale recipe in Charlie Papasian's new complete Joy of homebrewing. It calls a whole chicken in the beer! Holy freekin wow!!! It's not a rat but, Jesus! It's a whole damn chicken and that is gross enough for me! Says to pluck it, pummel it and smash it's bones! If any of you dare devil's out there try making that recipe, you are one manly man for sure! Tell me how it turned out!

Damn....

 

[Murrayatuptown]

There is even a specification for the amount of allowable rodent hair and insect parts in most grain-based foods.

Even for baby food...(I saw it once but would not easy find it again).

 

[Murrayatuptown]

Check out the Cock Ale recipe in Charlie Papasian's new complete Joy of homebrewing.

OK, Charlie, that's two revolting ideas. Goat Scrotum Stout and now this. I didn't get close enough to the GSS recipe to check the ingredients, but imagine those both on the menu at a brew pub. I imagine they'd age a while.

I'd have a hard time sharing bottles with a vegan friend. Not sure about the carnivores, either. Both sound like marketing challenges.

I usually put a little effort into making a label, but no, no, no.

I imagine that's a whole chicken for a 5-7 gallon recipe.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

OK, Charlie, that's two revolting ideas. Goat Scrotum Stout and now this. I didn't get close enough to the GSS recipe to check the ingredients, but imagine those both on the menu at a brew pub. I imagine they'd age a while.

I'd have a hard time sharing bottles with a vegan friend. Not sure about the carnivores, either. Both sound like marketing challenges.

I usually put a little effort into making a label, but no, no, no.

I imagine that's a whole chicken for a 5-7 gallon recipe.

That gives new meaning to, "a chicken in every pot"

 

[slayer021175666]

Ya. It's somethin', ain it!
I never heard the goat skrote one! That sounds pretty tasty too!

 

[acrowe]

There is an FDA Handbook on it
Food Defect Levels Handbook

The level of rodent parts acceptable in food that is...

 

[seatazzz]

I've only had one rat in my garage/brewspace; little bugger got in while I had the door open for brewing one day. Heard it scuttling around behind the shelves for a few days, then one day nothing; and found it dead under my kitchen table, courtesy of my youngest cat (who was born feral). None since.

 

[Komodo]

I am vigilant because I store my grain down there in food-safe pails with Gamma lids. I have never found any evidence of attempted entry to those.

Our mice waltz right in the garage, and I've got traps everywhere. But, I didn't want to chance it so bought a small steel garbage can and use that as grain storage. I'd like to see them chew through that.

 

[PCABrewing]

I've only had one rat in my garage/brewspace; little bugger got in while I had the door open for brewing one day. Heard it scuttling around behind the shelves for a few days, then one day nothing; and found it dead under my kitchen table, courtesy of my youngest cat (who was born feral). None since.

It is tough to beat a good mouser. They are natures autonomous traps.

 

[seatazzz]

It is tough to beat a good mouser. They are natures autonomous traps.

He hunted that damn thing for two days; I've never been around a hunting cat before and it was fun to watch. Wasn't a big rat (probably not full-grown) but its neck was neatly snapped with no mess, and the cat didn't try to eat it thank heavens. He got lots of treats for that kill.

 

[T Murph]

@duskb hopefully this post isn't too late but I am alarmed at the positive comments regarding using bleach to sanitize plastic. DON'T DO IT. As one post mentioned a chef uses straight bleach to clean cutting boards, hopefully that was misunderstood by the author. There is absolutely NO instance where the use of bleach should be used on vessels that directly contact beer. The FDA mandates a chlorine to water solution of 100 ppm be used to sanitize food contact surfaces. Anything over 200 ppm is hazardous to humans. If you are convinced to use bleach, first obtain chlorine test strips so you can make a 100 ppm solution and only use the proper ratio. And here's the next hurdle, plastic has the uncanny ability to store the chlorine and release small amounts into the volume of subsequent liquids that it contacts. That includes food grade plastic. In the event you must use bleach, leave the vessel open in direct sun light for several days after exposure. It doesn't remove the smell of chlorine completely but it does reduce the smell to the point that the un-knowing possibly would not smell it. Doesn't means it is not there, simply fill it with water and wallah your chlorine is back. If your sense of smell and taste are mutted you may well never know your brew presents an essence of chlorine. Replace the cooler.

 

[RufusBrewer]

@duskb hopefully this post isn't too late but I am alarmed at the positive comments regarding using bleach to sanitize plastic. DON'T DO IT. As one post mentioned a chef uses straight bleach to clean cutting boards, hopefully that was misunderstood by the author. There is absolutely NO instance where the use of bleach should be used on vessels that directly contact beer. The FDA mandates a chlorine to water solution of 100 ppm be used to sanitize food contact surfaces. Anything over 200 ppm is hazardous to humans. If you are convinced to use bleach, first obtain chlorine test strips so you can make a 100 ppm solution and only use the proper ratio. And here's the next hurdle, plastic has the uncanny ability to store the chlorine and release small amounts into the volume of subsequent liquids that it contacts. That includes food grade plastic. In the event you must use bleach, leave the vessel open in direct sun light for several days after exposure. It doesn't remove the smell of chlorine completely but it does reduce the smell to the point that the un-knowing possibly would not smell it. Doesn't means it is not there, simply fill it with water and wallah your chlorine is back. If your sense of smell and taste are mutted you may well never know your brew presents an essence of chlorine. Replace the cooler.

Murph4231, Interesting information. Thank you for the insight, As one of the posters on this thread promoting using bleach, I would like to learn more. Do you have any links or references that I can look at and expand my understanding?

 

[acrowe]

That is interesting information. I was more commenting that I wouldn't stress to much about a rotting rodent corpse ruining a vessel that after a good clean is going to hold mash that will boil for an hour as wort before being consumed. But I was not aware that one should not use bleach as sanitizer. I used to use bleach regularly (in solution - but not tested for sure) for sanitizing plastic brewing stuff . Now I use no rinse sanitizer to avoid off flavours and harming stainless. I also know that even very recently bleach was one of the sanitizers that was specified for Hand Washing with a 3 sink setup by Food Safe regulations in commercial kitchens. I can remember being check by an inspector with strips to see we had a high enough concentration.
I find that super interesting and would like to know more

 

[T Murph]

@Rufus your local health department and or the FDA directly can provide you with food handling and sanitation guidelines. I'm a retired food service manager of a national railroad. One of my basic task was to always check crews sanitizers. While used correctly chlorine bleach is an acceptable food service sanitizer it is not an acceptable aroma or taste profile in beer. It is beyond me why anyone one risk a quality homebrew to have it give any trace of chlorine.

As I eluded earlier, you can indeed sanitize a cooler using chlorine. While I don't know a direct link to confirm that 100 ppm is the correct proportion water to chlorine, the instructions are on the test strip package. Test strips are available at all food service suppliers and many grocery and drug stores.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

The nose knows if there is enough chlorine to hurt anything. A few rinses of scalding hot water and letting stuff dry out real good does the job. I have a good well and I can smell chlorine a mile away.

 

[acrowe]

I agree with Murph 4321 about the concern for off flavours with bleach as a sanitizer. I stopped using it because I felt I sometimes could detect some even being careful with rinsing. Plus StarSan is really easy with with keeping stuff sanitized right till you are going to use it.
I still use it in cleaning applications outside brewing though, particularly treasures in my daughters lunch containers I find a week later (sometimes as ugly as a decaying small rodent) .

 

[Homebrew Harry]

I agree with Murph 4321 about the concern for off flavours with bleach as a sanitizer. I stopped using it because I felt I sometimes could detect some even being careful with rinsing. Plus StarSan is really easy with with keeping stuff sanitized right till you are going to use it.
I still use it in cleaning applications outside brewing though, particularly treasures in my daughters lunch containers I find a week later (sometimes as ugly as a decaying small rodent) .

I would not use bleach as a no rinse sanitizer like star san, but I would not be afraid to use it on something like an "unfortunate mashtun" for a good cleaning. If I did use it as a sanitizer there would have to be some pre-boiled rinse water involved.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I did some research on line about bleach. I found a federal site and a state site. They specify a recipe. I forget the exact ratio. Something like 3 tablespoons per gallon. Significantly less than full strength is my point.

I did not see any mention contact time. I did not see any mention materials to avoid or mention consequences of stronger than the stated strengths.

 

[augiedoggy]

There is even a specification for the amount of allowable rodent hair and insect parts in most grain-based foods.

yeah biology was a real treat learning about the statistics on the amount of rat hair a feces found in coffee and cocoa and the amount of legally allowed protien in ketchup from the big green tomato worms..