Will this sparge arm work for fly sparging?

[bairdo]

I had this sparge arm made.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/sparge-arm-62865.html

The picture here shows it after the mashtun was drained but the way I use it is..

Once I've doughed in I select a length of tube so the plate is at the same as the wort level (I have several lengths of 3/4" silicon tube). I use the sparge arm like this for vorlaufing and then fly sparging. For the fly sparge I trickle in 78-80deg c sparge water (march pump) and at the same flow rate transfer into the kettle. My last brew took a little of 30mins to transfer 26.5L. After a few mins the wort is clear on top and wort the level is about 1" above the grain bed.

The design idea came from reading how-to-brew in which Palmer states you should avoid aerating hot wort;

"You should not aerate when the wort is hot, or even warm. Aeration of hot wort will cause the oxygen to chemically bind to various wort compounds. Over time, these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer where it can oxidize the alcohols and hop compounds producing off-flavors and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry-like flavors. The generally accepted temperature cutoff for preventing hot wort oxidation is 80°F. Oxidation of your wort can happen in several ways. The first is by splashing or aerating the wort while it is hot."

So my thinking was having the plate at the same level as the wort meant no splashing occurs. But I'm wondering if I'm limiting the rinse by only introducing rinse water into the middle? and also perhaps there's more risk of channeling?

Also. Has anyone else used a PICO false bottom from homebrewing.org? I'm using a modified version (modified means it has a hole in it for the pick-up pipe and a scallop cut out of the edge so it would fit under the weld nipple in the mashtun - which unfortunately caused the FB half to warp slightly)

Here is a pic of the pico FB half (before I lowered it).
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/mashtun-pickup-61443.html

Here is a pic of it lowered and how its being used now. (you can see the scallop I cut out)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/lowered-false-bottom-62864.html

The reason for all this is I'm trying to get to the bottom of why my brew-house efficiency is so poor. I previously started a thread on poor efficiency in the beginners forum "Why is my efficiency so low" so I know the nuts and bolts of it - this thread is to hopefully identify any issues with my sparge arm and or FB.

Any wisdom, thoughts, suggestions..?

 

[JBOGAN]

that looks awesome but i simple sabco tube on top of the grain bed does the trick. HSA is something a home brewer rarely encounters..(ensue HSA war).

 

[bairdo]

that looks awesome but i simple sabco tube on top of the grain bed does the trick. HSA is something a home brewer rarely encounters..(ensue HSA war).

Ah I see.. that makes sense. I've raised HSA before and had no response. But that's good in a way because if its considered overkill then I'll can play with raising the sparge diffuser plate for lautering. I'm still pretty new to all this..

 

[JBOGAN]

Ah I see.. that makes sense. I've raised HSA before and had no response. But that's good in a way because if its considered overkill then I'll can play with raising the sparge diffuser plate for lautering. I'm still pretty new to all this..

i had a almost the same setup and just moved to the sabco method and things are going great. You should be fine as long as the out put has an equal spray range.

 

[bairdo]

i had a almost the same setup and just moved to the sabco method and things are going great. You should be fine as long as the out put has an equal spray range.

I made a vid when I first plumbed it up.

Since this video I cut out a section of pipe and replaced it with 3/4" silicon tube to make it height adjustable.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsD_pb0ypEM[/ame]

 

[JBOGAN]

Very nice!! I am sure that was just a test but if it was not i would lower flow restriction and you are golden.

 

[JBOGAN]

Slow the flow and forget about the HSA monster.

 

[bairdo]

Yep that was just a test. And I've only ever had the plate right on top of the wort - touching it. The flow on brew day is much much slower - more like a trickle.


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[JBOGAN]

I have a chugger pump that is set up almost the same but went back to gravity feed and the stove....creature of habit.

 

[JBOGAN]

What is the heat source out of curiosity?

 

[bairdo]

What is the heat source out of curiosity?

Propane burner (220,000 btu)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/plumbing-61485.html

 

[bairdo]

Anyone else out there have any comments...?

 

[pellis007]

Also. Has anyone else used a PICO false bottom from homebrewing.org? I'm using a modified version (modified means it has a hole in it for the pick-up pipe and a scallop cut out of the edge so it would fit under the weld nipple in the mashtun - which unfortunately caused the FB half to warp slightly)

Here is a pic of the pico FB half (before I lowered it).
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/mashtun-pickup-61443.html

Here is a pic of it lowered and how its being used now. (you can see the scallop I cut out)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/lowered-false-bottom-62864.html

Any wisdom, thoughts, suggestions..?

Bairdo, I had a question about the PICO false bottom if you don't mind. I have just purchased one for my Bayou Classic 62 Quart kettle which will be my mash tun and my valve sits above the false bottom. I see you drilled a hole for the dip tube into the PICO bottom. I'm going to need to do the same thing and I was wondering if you have any suggestions about doing this? The folks at Homebrew.org suggested not drilling into it, but I really have no choice. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[augiedoggy]

As others have mentioned the sparge arm is really only useful in batch sparging and not fly sparging...

 

[bairdo]

Bairdo, I had a question about the PICO false bottom if you don't mind. I have just purchased one for my Bayou Classic 62 Quart kettle which will be my mash tun and my valve sits above the false bottom. I see you drilled a hole for the dip tube into the PICO bottom. I'm going to need to do the same thing and I was wondering if you have any suggestions about doing this? The folks at Homebrew.org suggested not drilling into it, but I really have no choice. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

I used a 12.5mm hole saw in a drill press. I clamped the PICO in between 2 pieces of wood and then clamped that to the drill press table to ensure a clean finish. Because I required an elongated hole I drilled two holes close to each other then used a fine file to finish up. The hole saw was new so it cut through it like butter.

I think using a drill press and clamping is the key to not making a mess.. Mine looks perfect.

FYI I also ground out a scallop from the edge (you'll see in the pics). I do NOT recommend you do that - it cause the PICO to warp. But just drilling a hole is fine - just maybe don't go to close to the edge as the edge is what keeps the wedge flat.

 

[bairdo]

As others have mentioned the sparge arm is really only useful in batch sparging and not fly sparging...

Actually it works very well for fly sparging. Will post a video of it in use on next brew day.

 

[augiedoggy]

Actually it works very well for fly sparging. Will post a video of it in use on next brew day.

Oh it will sprinkle just fine but unless you drain below the top of the grain bed a done in batch sparging it has no real beneficial effect on anything.... as another current thread just explained sparge arms that sprinkle or spray were developed for batch sparging alone ....
Think about it if you have an inch or so of wort on top of the grain bed what benefit will a gentle sprinkle give over a hose lying horizontally on the bed gently pumping into that inch of wort water (it will actually give you more temp loss). This is why some remove their sparge arms. I still have one but I sometimes batch sparge with it.

 

[bairdo]

You got me.. I didn't think! It does not sprinkle at all. The spread plate is always submerged just below the water(wort) line. Its purpose is too introduce hot water on top of the mash without disturbing the grain bed. I ran it past a commercial craft brewer recently, he said it sounded good.


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[bairdo]

I used a 12.5mm hole saw in a drill press. I clamped the PICO in between 2 pieces of wood and then clamped that to the drill press table to ensure a clean finish. Because I required an elongated hole I drilled two holes close to each other then used a fine file to finish up. The hole saw was new so it cut through it like butter.



I think using a drill press and clamping is the key to not making a mess.. Mine looks perfect.



FYI I also ground out a scallop from the edge (you'll see in the pics). I do NOT recommend you do that - it cause the PICO to warp. But just drilling a hole is fine - just maybe don't go to close to the edge as the edge is what keeps the wedge flat.

Also.. The reason I had to drill my fb is because using the stands it came with meant there was 9.5L below the fb. So to have a grist of 2.5 I needed a lot more water than i should have - meaning a lot less to rinse with. I gained 5L of sparge by lowering the fb.



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[bairdo]

I used a 12.5mm hole saw in a drill press. I clamped the PICO in between 2 pieces of wood and then clamped that to the drill press table to ensure a clean finish. Because I required an elongated hole I drilled two holes close to each other then used a fine file to finish up. The hole saw was new so it cut through it like butter.



I think using a drill press and clamping is the key to not making a mess.. Mine looks perfect.



FYI I also ground out a scallop from the edge (you'll see in the pics). I do NOT recommend you do that - it cause the PICO to warp. But just drilling a hole is fine - just maybe don't go to close to the edge as the edge is what keeps the wedge flat.

Also.. The reason I had to drill my fb is because using the stands it came with meant there was 9.5L below the fb. So to have a grist of 2.5 I needed a lot more water than i should have - meaning a lot less to rinse with. I gained 5L of sparge by lowering the fb.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bairdo]

I used a 12.5mm hole saw in a drill press. I clamped the PICO in between 2 pieces of wood and then clamped that to the drill press table to ensure a clean finish. Because I required an elongated hole I drilled two holes close to each other then used a fine file to finish up. The hole saw was new so it cut through it like butter.



I think using a drill press and clamping is the key to not making a mess.. Mine looks perfect.



FYI I also ground out a scallop from the edge (you'll see in the pics). I do NOT recommend you do that - it cause the PICO to warp. But just drilling a hole is fine - just maybe don't go to close to the edge as the edge is what keeps the wedge flat.

Also worth mentioning is the reason I had to drill my fb is because using the stands it came with meant there was 9.5L below the fb. So I needed a lot more water than i should have to mash - meaning a lot less to rinse with. I gained 5L of sparge by lowering the fb.



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[pellis007]

I used a 12.5mm hole saw in a drill press. I clamped the PICO in between 2 pieces of wood and then clamped that to the drill press table to ensure a clean finish. Because I required an elongated hole I drilled two holes close to each other then used a fine file to finish up. The hole saw was new so it cut through it like butter.

I think using a drill press and clamping is the key to not making a mess.. Mine looks perfect.

FYI I also ground out a scallop from the edge (you'll see in the pics). I do NOT recommend you do that - it cause the PICO to warp. But just drilling a hole is fine - just maybe don't go to close to the edge as the edge is what keeps the wedge flat.

Perfect Bairdo....thanks for the info. I don't think I'll have to scallop the edge since it doesn't interfere with the weldless valve fitting so that should save me from any warping issues. I'm happy to know it's been successfully done with no major issues. The guys at homebrewing.org recommended I not drill it.

 

[luvhopps]

As others have mentioned the sparge arm is really only useful in batch sparging and not fly sparging...

Why are you using a sparge arm for batch sparging?
Isn't batch sparging mash, vorlauf, drain the grain bed, add more water, stir, vorlauf, drain the grain bed. Where does the arm come into play? Just curious

 

[bairdo]

Perfect Bairdo....thanks for the info. I don't think I'll have to scallop the edge since it doesn't interfere with the weldless valve fitting so that should save me from any warping issues. I'm happy to know it's been successfully done with no major issues. The guys at homebrewing.org recommended I not drill it.

My guess is the homebrewing.org guys are just concerned with the damage it could do if not done properly. Be careful and you'll be fine.


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[augiedoggy]

Why are you using a sparge arm for batch sparging?
Isn't batch sparging mash, vorlauf, drain the grain bed, add more water, stir, vorlauf, drain the grain bed. Where does the arm come into play? Just curious

Yes, The main purpose of a sparge arm is to gently and evenly dispense (sprinkle) liquid ontop of a dry grainbed without disturbing it or channeling. I dont restir my grainbed when I batch sparge therefore I dont need to vorlouf when the grain bed is already "settled" as a natural filter im really just rinsing the residual sugars from the grain. Thats a benefit of recirculating during the entire mash. it also filters the wort so its clear when I finally switch the valve to divert it to the BK...

I dont usually batch sparge and I will admit I made my sparge arm before I really understood that it wasnt needed for fly sparging but it still comes in handy when I do find myself rinsing the grains to squeeze out a bit more efficiency.

 

[pellis007]

My guess is the homebrewing.org guys are just concerned with the damage it could do if not done properly. Be careful and you'll be fine.


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Got it done today, no problems, used my dremel to elongate the hole and it came out great. Thanks very much for the input.

 

[bairdo]

Good stuff. What have you got there around the pickup pipe..?

 

[pellis007]

Good stuff. What have you got there around the pickup pipe..?

Since I elongated the hole through the false bottom which gives me some room to maneuver the dip tube when installing or removing the false bottom, I decided to put a couple washers down to cover the elongated opening, ensuring grains won't drop through when mashing.

 

[bairdo]

Sweet I did the same. Are you using the grid stand that came with the fb? when I measured how much liquid was under the fb I had 9.5 liters - hence I ditched it.

 

[pellis007]

Yes I am using the grid stand. I wanted to be sure I had some dead space since I will be direct firing under the mash tun and recirculating and don't want to take a chance on scorching grains. I can always compensate for the dead space. I use Beersmith to calculate my recipes and my equipment profile will have the dead space built in and will automatically compensate on my water requirements.