Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[hibbleton]

Is the scorching all over the element or is it confined to a small area? My element had a hot spot near the base. CBS replaced it and the new element doesn't have the same issue.

The entire element is scorched. I tried recirculating 4 gallons 130F PBW for 30 minutes post-brew and that did almost nothing to clean it. Same results soaking the element in a bucket of hot PBW for a day. Looks like I'm gonna need a new element but might check with CO Brewing first.

 

[cyclonebeer]

The entire element is scorched. I tried recirculating 4 gallons 130F PBW for 30 minutes post-brew and that did almost nothing to clean it. Same results soaking the element in a bucket of hot PBW for a day. Looks like I'm gonna need a new element but might check with CO Brewing first.

I would think its kind of unusual for the entire element to scorch. I had a defective element once and the scorching was confined to about 1/2" length of the element. Scorching is nasty looking dark brown burnt stuff - kind of like starter wort boiled over on a glass top stove. You almost need a chisel to get it off. Is that what you're seeing along the entire length of the element?

My element cleans up pretty easily after brewing. I do get some tough build up after I recirculate hot oxyclean through the entire system for an hour or so (I have really hard water). Last time I had a chalky white buildup on the element, I soaked it in vinegar overnight. Worked really good.

 

[jabba11]

The entire element is scorched. I tried recirculating 4 gallons 130F PBW for 30 minutes post-brew and that did almost nothing to clean it. Same results soaking the element in a bucket of hot PBW for a day. Looks like I'm gonna need a new element but might check with CO Brewing first.

You can use oven cleaner and a brillo pad on it. That will take 99 percent of it off at least it did for me

 

[jabba11]

don't do it in place though

 

[Horseflesh]

The entire element is scorched.

If the whole thing is cooked then the boil power must have been too high.

FWIW with my 5 gallon batches, I cut over from 100% to 55% at 207F. 65% "cruise" power was also safe for my smaller volumes (no scorching), but CBS suggested 55% was good enough and so I'm using that now.

An ultra low density element would definitely buy you some headroom though. Should this one fail, or if I feel the need to buy my kettle a present, I will switch to an ULWD ripple element like some of the other guys have.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Muratic acid will clean the scorching off right off. Just make sure to rinse it really well with water afterwards.

 

[hibbleton]

Here's what the element looked like after several PBW soaks and scrubs. I emailed Jacob at CO Brewing and they're sending a new element (continuing their excellent customer service). He said the power should never be over 80% even when coming up to a boil. I normally cruise at 50% but I'm pretty sure this latest scorching happened during the mash recirculation.

Edit: Jacob replied that he was mistaken on the 100%:

"I just realized that your panel is a PID panel. You are able to go at 100% for getting to temp. You just need to drop the percentage before you get to your target temp. We are 202deg here. So, we would drop the percentage at about 200 deg. If it gets to the target temp and then the PID/element are still at 100%(even for 10 sec) the element will cook itself because the heat has no where to go at that point and it creates a barrier around itself and just bakes."

 

[02RedWS6TA]

if you dig through these posts theres many stories similar to this. its a problem we all share and I have been trying to correct it with fissling with some things. I just recently bought a ripple ULWD element for mine and while I haven't made a wheat beer yet with it I did make a batch that had a 1lb of flaked wheat in it and it seemed to work much better than the one that came with my setup (albeit slower). I also have been recirculating under the basket. I'm not sure that's had any real effect but it has increased my efficiency I believe for some reason.

Here's what the element looked like after several PBW soaks and scrubs. I emailed Jacob at CO Brewing and they're sending a new element (continuing their excellent customer service). He said the power should never be over 80% even when coming up to a boil. I normally cruise at 50% but I'm pretty sure this latest scorching happened during the mash recirculation.

Edit: Jacob replied that he was mistaken on the 100%:

"I just realized that your panel is a PID panel. You are able to go at 100% for getting to temp. You just need to drop the percentage before you get to your target temp. We are 202deg here. So, we would drop the percentage at about 200 deg. If it gets to the target temp and then the PID/element are still at 100%(even for 10 sec) the element will cook itself because the heat has no where to go at that point and it creates a barrier around itself and just bakes."

That'll clean up fine. Get some muratic acid and a spray bottle at home Depot. Spray it, give it 5-6 minutes, and hit it with a brillow pad. Wear gloves, muratic acid won't burn you on contact but it'll definitely tingle after a few minutes.

I don't know why I quoted two posts. Apparently my phone is going to do this on every forum I visit these days

 

[RollE2k]

I don't get why they even ship out 5500W elements for small homebrew-scale kits at 20 gallon and below.
I myself have a custom made triple-phase (3x230v) element, with three heating tubes at 1600w each = 4800W total power.
The total lenght of the element is 40cm inside the kettle.. So i have alot lower watt density than these elements.
I usually run 3x1600w getting up to boil - and 2x1600w when boiling ~14-15 Gallon wort - and it is almost like it's a bit unnecessary much power for that volume, because i have quite high boil-off. I think 2800w would be perfect for this volume.
So i'm thinking they should instead have shipped with a 4500w max on these kits.

By the way - for you guys using the SS BrewTech manifold, do you have alot slower circulation when making high-gravity brews compared to normal 5-6% beers?

 

[cyclonebeer]

That'll clean up fine. Get some muratic acid and a spray bottle at home Depot. Spray it, give it 5-6 minutes, and hit it with a brillow pad. Wear gloves, muratic acid won't burn you on contact but it'll definitely tingle after a few minutes.

That element is shot. I would not brew with it again.

 

[jabba11]

I don't get why they even ship out 5500W elements for small homebrew-scale kits at 20 gallon and below.
I myself have a custom made triple-phase (3x230v) element, with three heating tubes at 1600w each = 4800W total power.
The total lenght of the element is 40cm inside the kettle.. So i have alot lower watt density than these elements.
I usually run 3x1600w getting up to boil - and 2x1600w when boiling ~14-15 Gallon wort - and it is almost like it's a bit unnecessary much power for that volume, because i have quite high boil-off. I think 2800w would be perfect for this volume.
So i'm thinking they should instead have shipped with a 4500w max on these kits.

By the way - for you guys using the SS BrewTech manifold, do you have alot slower circulation when making high-gravity brews compared to normal 5-6% beers?

I have the manifold but only rarely make anything over 6%. I haven't noticed the grain bill affecting the flow from the manifold at all though. I will say that the manifold in general definitely add some back pressure to the pump compared to the tube. That is without question , BUT I also haven't noticed the flow rate being any problem at all.

 

[LouBrew13]

I have been getting very good recirculation throttling back my pump and stirring pretty well after about 10 minutes of flow. Hitting my numbers as well. Just don't never ever ever add 2oz. Orange peel without a bag to hold it. Ask me how I know?

 

[swimIan]

I don't get why they even ship out 5500W elements for small homebrew-scale kits at 20 gallon and below.
I myself have a custom made triple-phase (3x230v) element, with three heating tubes at 1600w each = 4800W total power.
The total lenght of the element is 40cm inside the kettle.. So i have alot lower watt density than these elements.
I usually run 3x1600w getting up to boil - and 2x1600w when boiling ~14-15 Gallon wort - and it is almost like it's a bit unnecessary much power for that volume, because i have quite high boil-off. I think 2800w would be perfect for this volume.
So i'm thinking they should instead have shipped with a 4500w max on these kits.

By the way - for you guys using the SS BrewTech manifold, do you have alot slower circulation when making high-gravity brews compared to normal 5-6% beers?

I'm curious what your element looks like. Pics? Where did you buy it or have it designed from?

 

[02RedWS6TA]

That element is shot. I would not brew with it again.

No idea if it's shot that's out of my league. The white spots?

He's got a new one on the way. My old one was in rough shape but I cleaned it up and keep it on the bench in case mine died and I needed an emergency element, obviously would only work if I found it died heating up initially​.

 

[akthor]

I thought since ULWD elements became available THOSE are what we should be using for brewing??? Specifically because of scorching? Even for 2 and 3 vessel electric systems which don't have to worry about scorching near as much as BIAB?

I got my pot and basket from CO but after reading here I'm kinda glad I DIY the rest of my system and got my elements from The Electric Brewery which are ULWD ones. Which just so happens are the only kind they sell. From their website:

"The element is ultra-low watt density (ULWD) which means that the heat produced per square inch along the element is very low which reduces the chance of scorching or caramelizing the boiling wort. These elements are typically folded over on themselves making the effective length twice as long as a regular element. This particular element uses a zig-zag pattern to make it even longer still, further reducing the amount of heat produced per square inch.
Is ULWD really required however? In discussions with many other electric brewers who use 'standard' density electric elements, the whole idea of scorching or caramelization seems to be mostly Internet folklore. We haven't come across one concrete example where this has happened, but we feel it's better to be safe than sorry, especially considering that the cost of ULWD elements is minimal compared to 'standard' elements.
There is however one very good reason to use ULWD elements over regular elements: They won't break as easily if fired up "dry" (not immersed in water). When a regular element is fired up "dry" the element will pop fairly quickly (usually before you notice your mistake!) as there is no water to dissipate the heat. While nobody means to fire up an element like this, mistakes do happen. Using ULWD elements provides you with a little bit of insurance against these human errors. Popping an element is about the last thing you want given that you've likely already milled your grain and have everything ready to go."

Seems like a better safe than sorry situation to me. If I remember correctly the price difference wasn't night and day and well worth the peace of mind.

 

[hibbleton]

No idea if it's shot that's out of my league. The white spots?

He's got a new one on the way. My old one was in rough shape but I cleaned it up and keep it on the bench in case mine died and I needed an emergency element, obviously would only work if I found it died heating up initially​.

My thoughts exactly. I'll try cleaning the old element with muriatic acid and keep it as an emergency backup. I will say that even though the element was black I don't detect any burnt or carmelized flavors in the fermenting beer so far. And my previous three batches where the element came out slightly black turned out perfectly fine as well so maybe it's not as big a deal as it seems.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I don't get why they even ship out 5500W elements for small homebrew-scale kits at 20 gallon and below.
I myself have a custom made triple-phase (3x230v) element, with three heating tubes at 1600w each = 4800W total power.
The total lenght of the element is 40cm inside the kettle.. So i have alot lower watt density than these elements.
I usually run 3x1600w getting up to boil - and 2x1600w when boiling ~14-15 Gallon wort - and it is almost like it's a bit unnecessary much power for that volume, because i have quite high boil-off. I think 2800w would be perfect for this volume.
So i'm thinking they should instead have shipped with a 4500w max

It's about time requirements in my opinion. Even if you could get 100% efficiency from a 5500w element, that's still 40 minutes just to heat 15 gallons of strike water. In reality it's even longer due to inefficiencies and heat loss.

 

[Eamster]

Converted my sight glass into a temp probe/sight glass and used the extra spot for the whirlpool arm. Also got the SSbrewsupply manifold. Hopefully this helps with efficiency as you guys have experienced. Better yet with consistency. We will see. Just glad to get rid of the recirculating arm. Just never worked great for me consistently enough. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495753789.060004.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495753799.724823.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495753808.514621.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495753820.497633.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495753845.044435.jpg

 

[jready]

Gang, I have been brewing for a year on my system and I just have to say I love it! I brewed a 10 gallon batch of a margarita gose over the weekend mashed in early Saturday and then soured it and held temp for 36 hours to reach my desired PH. So easy!

Boiled it off late Sunday and then did a thorough cleaning Monday morning. All in all no more than 4 hours of hands on time and the beer is happily bubbling away in the fermenter.

I have only modified the site glass port to a whirlpool port and have been lucky not to experience some of the scorching issues others have. I have been averaging 20-30 gallons a month with little to no issues. Even at that level of production I can't keep beer around. I took a 2 1/2 gallon keg and to growlers to a party Monday night and it was gone in a couple of hours.

So happy with my purchase!

 

[Nmnbrewer]

Converted my sight glass into a temp probe/sight glass and used the extra spot for the whirlpool arm. Also got the SSbrewsupply manifold. Hopefully this helps with efficiency as you guys have experienced. Better yet with consistency. We will see. Just glad to get rid of the recirculating arm. Just never worked great for me consistently enough. View attachment 401927View attachment 401928View attachment 401929View attachment 401930View attachment 401931

This is pretty much identical to my setup. Works awesome.

 

[hibbleton]

Potentially stupid question: for this system, is it better to keep the grains moving in the mash basket or let them settle and create a filter bed?

The way the standard whirlpool arm on top of the mash basket is set up suggests it is designed to keep the top of the mash moving (maybe that's just for 5 gallon batches and 10 gallons would be better). By adding some silicone tubing to the whirlpool arm I am able to force the bottom of the mash to move but I don't know if that's better or worse.

 

[Traz1986]

That is a source of confusion for me as well. I have yet to fire up mine. But Tim's videos on the Colorado site show him spinning all the grain in the mash, however most people on the post seem to opt for the SS Brewtech mash recirculation manifold. All so would like to hear from both sides. I'm a few parts away from my first brew on it.

View attachment 1496194023972.jpg

 

[LouBrew13]

It's not going to keep all of your grains swirling around, just the top. The grain bed will settle and filter.

 

[Eamster]

I did brew last Monday with the SS manifold and whirlpool arm. Ss manifold worked great. Kept opening the valve gradually and in about 10 to 15 minutes it was wide open and the grain bed was set and filtering. Efficiencies increased a couple of gravity points but nothing extreme. Whirlpool arm worked much better and got the wort moving better than the arm attachment at the top of the kettle. So far I am happy with the additions. Got a brew down in 4.5 hours including clean up(water and grain ready the night before).

 

[zman_]

I did brew last Monday with the SS manifold and whirlpool arm. Ss manifold worked great. Kept opening the valve gradually and in about 10 to 15 minutes it was wide open and the grain bed was set and filtering. Efficiencies increased a couple of gravity points but nothing extreme. Whirlpool arm worked much better and got the wort moving better than the arm attachment at the top of the kettle. So far I am happy with the additions. Got a brew down in 4.5 hours including clean up(water and grain ready the night before).

What recipe? Approximate mash thickness and/or grain #/water volumes?

I brewed twice over the weekend, one was a low ABV berliner weisse and the other was a heavily oated DIPA. Using just a silicone hose on the top of the mash I was able to get full open recirculation almost instantly with the berliner, but was uanble to get anything going with the DIPA (took almost 30min for it to fully drain). Just want to get a sense of what other people have had success with before I consider if I want the mash manifold/etc.

 

[Eamster]

What recipe? Approximate mash thickness and/or grain #/water volumes?



I brewed twice over the weekend, one was a low ABV berliner weisse and the other was a heavily oated DIPA. Using just a silicone hose on the top of the mash I was able to get full open recirculation almost instantly with the berliner, but was uanble to get anything going with the DIPA (took almost 30min for it to fully drain). Just want to get a sense of what other people have had success with before I consider if I want the mash manifold/etc.

For a 6 gallon batch I have about 10 gallons of water for a mash. Approximately 8 of that is in the basket with the grain while recirculating. This is with a grain bill of 15lbs. 5.5 goes into the fermenter.

 

[zman_]

Cool, so that would be more comparable to my berliner weisse where I had no issues with full open (13# of grain mostly wheat in 12.5g of water). It was a no boil no hop beer so nice and easy. Comparably, I had ~30# of grain in ~15 gallons (+2-3gal sparge) for the DIPA which would explain my inability to get it recirculating.

 

[jabba11]

Heres a link to show my short traditional sparge on the system this morning.. https://www.facebook.com/CeeGeeBrewing/videos/762231703937200/https://www.facebook.com/CeeGeeBrewing/videos/762231703937200/

 

[jabba11]

A few thigns learned again today. One. Want your wort clear.. raise the basket excruciatingly slow. I got it pretty clear today for sure. I think when I first got the system one of the cool things was "lets see how fast I can do this". Now with the last several pbatches ive slowed thigns down a lot. I guess I'm more interested in perfecting this system nd making sure all goes right as I can get it than how fast I can do it. The sparge worked great. Efficency today was AGAIN 89%. it seems to be holding right about that as well with the last 3 brews. My process (I don't know what is effecting it most FYI). Put total water volume in and add salt additions (if I'm using RO, I don't for darker beers). Pull 1 and 1/2 gallons for sparge water. Mash in at temps. Pull bakset end of mash VERY VERY slowly. Attach sparge arm with heated sparge water and sparge it really quick. LIke 5 mins for the 1 1/2 gallons. Valve about 90% open. I have a ULD ripple style element that I have bent open some. I am using the SS brewtech manifold and recirculating through the whirlpool during mash slowly. So the pump is running both the manifold and the whirlpool but it can do this quite readily. I stir maybe ONE time after mashing in. Usually not long after mashing in. Then I never stir again unless bad things happen and they don't very often. Hope you guys find this useful. I really think even though we are all running the same type of system as with any brewery you really need to find what works best for you. After a year of owning the thing I'm really starting to dial it in IMHO..Cheers! (pic is a Helles I brewed some time back coming along nicely)

 

[02RedWS6TA]

That's awesome efficiency. Brewing again this weekend, going to be working on the efficiency this round

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Another brew day down. Pro tip- don't accidentally spilled any grains outside the basket if you're using the mash manifold. It definitely plugs up.

14 gallons in the fermenter though, used the original sparge arm

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Moved my gain Mill to a tight .039 and did another batch today. 33.5 pounds of grain and the tighter crush made the mash interesting but everything went well other than that. Efficiency up to just over 80%.

14.5 gallons of my neipa fermenting away now

 

[hibbleton]

I recently ordered The Brew Bag to try and rectify my issues with the 20gal Nano Home (stuck recirculations, difficulty removing spent grains/cleaning mash basket, low efficiency). I got the 50-60qt version but if anyone else orders one I'd recommend the custom option; the size I got barely fits and doesn't go over the sides of the kettle. I'll be brewing a bigass barleywine this weekend with my mill set to 0.030"; I'll report back on how the bag works.

 

[zman_]

I recently ordered The Brew Bag to try and rectify my issues with the 20gal Nano Home (stuck recirculations, difficulty removing spent grains/cleaning mash basket, low efficiency). I got the 50-60qt version but if anyone else orders one I'd recommend the custom option; the size I got barely fits and doesn't go over the sides of the kettle. I'll be brewing a bigass barleywine this weekend with my mill set to 0.030"; I'll report back on how the bag works.

Looking forward to hearing how this works, I am considering getting a bag (or mesh sided basket) for big/sticky grain bills. Solid sided works great for lower ABV/less sticky brews and gets great efficiency there (~80%+) but struggles when I push the thickness up and use lots of wheat/oats.

 

[jabba11]

yep Id be interested in hearing the results anyway

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Same crush, tight .039, 80% today. 12lbs of white wheat and 1.5# of flaked wheat. No issues with circulation.

Edit: I guess I should add it also had like 18# of 2 row, carapils, and one pound of rice hulls.

 

[zman_]

Same crush, tight .039, 80% today. 12lbs of white wheat and 1.5# of flaked wheat. No issues with circulation.

Solid sided basket? Mesh? Bag?

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Solid sides on my basket.

 

[zman_]

What's your strategy/protocol for mash/recirculation? Just single temp infusion + start slow? I wasnt able to get any recirculation going with 20# 2 row, 6# oats, 3# wheat for a 10g batch. No rice hulls though

 

[02RedWS6TA]

What's your strategy/protocol for mash/recirculation? Just single temp infusion + start slow? I wasnt able to get any recirculation going with 20# 2 row, 6# oats, 3# wheat for a 10g batch. No rice hulls though

You can search Reaction Brewing Company I video every brew day and usually include how I set up circulation, easier to see than explain.

But yes, I heat water to about 164ish to pull my sparge wate, and dump in the cold grains. Then slowly set up the mash manifold to circulate. The arm they include in the kit is garbage imo. Usually give it a few stirs as it sets up the bed. I use a dough ball destroyer from nor Cal brewing to break up the mash when I pour my grains in too, that thing really mixes well so there's no gummy spots.

Use rice hulls. You can buy a 10# bag on Amazon for like $25. Use 1# every batch.