Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[02RedWS6TA]

Another brew day down. Pro tip- don't accidentally spilled any grains outside the basket if you're using the mash manifold. It definitely plugs up.

14 gallons in the fermenter though, used the original sparge arm

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Moved my gain Mill to a tight .039 and did another batch today. 33.5 pounds of grain and the tighter crush made the mash interesting but everything went well other than that. Efficiency up to just over 80%.

14.5 gallons of my neipa fermenting away now

 

[hibbleton]

I recently ordered The Brew Bag to try and rectify my issues with the 20gal Nano Home (stuck recirculations, difficulty removing spent grains/cleaning mash basket, low efficiency). I got the 50-60qt version but if anyone else orders one I'd recommend the custom option; the size I got barely fits and doesn't go over the sides of the kettle. I'll be brewing a bigass barleywine this weekend with my mill set to 0.030"; I'll report back on how the bag works.

 

[zman_]

I recently ordered The Brew Bag to try and rectify my issues with the 20gal Nano Home (stuck recirculations, difficulty removing spent grains/cleaning mash basket, low efficiency). I got the 50-60qt version but if anyone else orders one I'd recommend the custom option; the size I got barely fits and doesn't go over the sides of the kettle. I'll be brewing a bigass barleywine this weekend with my mill set to 0.030"; I'll report back on how the bag works.

Looking forward to hearing how this works, I am considering getting a bag (or mesh sided basket) for big/sticky grain bills. Solid sided works great for lower ABV/less sticky brews and gets great efficiency there (~80%+) but struggles when I push the thickness up and use lots of wheat/oats.

 

[jabba11]

yep Id be interested in hearing the results anyway

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Same crush, tight .039, 80% today. 12lbs of white wheat and 1.5# of flaked wheat. No issues with circulation.

Edit: I guess I should add it also had like 18# of 2 row, carapils, and one pound of rice hulls.

 

[zman_]

Same crush, tight .039, 80% today. 12lbs of white wheat and 1.5# of flaked wheat. No issues with circulation.

Solid sided basket? Mesh? Bag?

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Solid sides on my basket.

 

[zman_]

What's your strategy/protocol for mash/recirculation? Just single temp infusion + start slow? I wasnt able to get any recirculation going with 20# 2 row, 6# oats, 3# wheat for a 10g batch. No rice hulls though

 

[02RedWS6TA]

What's your strategy/protocol for mash/recirculation? Just single temp infusion + start slow? I wasnt able to get any recirculation going with 20# 2 row, 6# oats, 3# wheat for a 10g batch. No rice hulls though

You can search Reaction Brewing Company I video every brew day and usually include how I set up circulation, easier to see than explain.

But yes, I heat water to about 164ish to pull my sparge wate, and dump in the cold grains. Then slowly set up the mash manifold to circulate. The arm they include in the kit is garbage imo. Usually give it a few stirs as it sets up the bed. I use a dough ball destroyer from nor Cal brewing to break up the mash when I pour my grains in too, that thing really mixes well so there's no gummy spots.

Use rice hulls. You can buy a 10# bag on Amazon for like $25. Use 1# every batch.

 

[hibbleton]

My first run with The Brew Bag was unsuccessful, though the 0.030" gap on my mill was a bit ambitious. The recirculation slowed/stuck worse than with the standard solid sided mash basket even at a slow rate with the standard arm + tubing. This was on a 5.5gal batch of barleywine with 26lbs of grain and 1lb of rice hulls in 11.75gal of water.

I couldn't understand how that would be, but when I pulled the bag full of grains (a pain in the ass due to the crossbar; I had to open the bag while it was suspended and scoop out half the grains. Should've foreseen that) I noticed the bottom of the mesh basket was covered in a thin film of grain residue that must've prevented flow. I was stirring and dredging the bottom of the mesh basket the entirety of the 60min mash.

One benefit was that the brew bag kept my element clean with no black scorching this batch. I'll use it again for the next batch but bump the mill gap back to about 0.045". It isn't the silver bullet I was hoping and still don't see how others are getting a good recirculation and such high efficiency. Starting to get really frustrated with this system.

 

[RollE2k]

I have now ordered another solid sided BIAB basket... but with 600 micron bottom, instead of the 400 micron which the CO-brew ones have.
I have had working recirculation all the time since i started wet-milling the grains, but it haven't been as fast circulation as i have wanted - so i thought i would try this way to go.
I also have a 400micron mesh sided basket which i haven't tried yet - since the recircualtion started to work better when i have been wet milling the grains. Will be really interesting to see how this works out though.

 

[zman_]

My first run with The Brew Bag was unsuccessful, though the 0.030" gap on my mill was a bit ambitious. The recirculation slowed/stuck worse than with the standard solid sided mash basket even at a slow rate with the standard arm + tubing. This was on a 5.5gal batch of barleywine with 26lbs of grain and 1lb of rice hulls in 11.75gal of water.

I couldn't understand how that would be, but when I pulled the bag full of grains (a pain in the ass due to the crossbar; I had to open the bag while it was suspended and scoop out half the grains. Should've foreseen that) I noticed the bottom of the mesh basket was covered in a thin film of grain residue that must've prevented flow. I was stirring and dredging the bottom of the mesh basket the entirety of the 60min mash.

One benefit was that the brew bag kept my element clean with no black scorching this batch. I'll use it again for the next batch but bump the mill gap back to about 0.045". It isn't the silver bullet I was hoping and still don't see how others are getting a good recirculation and such high efficiency. Starting to get really frustrated with this system.

I was under the impression that a bag was supposed to be use instead of a mash basket not in conjunction with it. I fail to see the logic in adding another filtering element to a system and expecting less resistance/better flow. If you instead replaced the solid sided basket with the bag, I would expect that recirculation issue would resolve. My plan is to either get a mash bag + steamer basket (~$40-50 from the Concord website) or a mesh-sided basket for the stickier grain bills - depends on cost and cashflow.

 

[hibbleton]

I figured more filtration would be better but you're probably right in that the mash basket is unnecessary with the bag. If I can find something to prop the grain-filled bag up off of the heating element (any suggestions?) I'll likely try that next time.

 

[TexasWine]

I have now ordered another solid sided BIAB basket... but with 600 micron bottom, instead of the 400 micron which the CO-brew ones have.
I have had working recirculation all the time since i started wet-milling the grains, but it haven't been as fast circulation as i have wanted - so i thought i would try this way to go.
I also have a 400micron mesh sided basket which i haven't tried yet - since the recircualtion started to work better when i have been wet milling the grains. Will be really interesting to see how this works out though.

If you're truly wet milling on a home brew scale, I'd love to see your set up. But, I suspect that instead you're conditioning your grains with a spritz of water to soften the husk before running it through your mill.

Wet milling is entirely different than conditioning, but golly I hope you're wet milling so I can see it implemented on a small scale.

 

[akthor]

Has anyone used both the solid sided basket and the full mesh basket?
Be interested in hearing the differences if any.

I have now ordered another solid sided BIAB basket... but with 600 micron bottom, instead of the 400 micron which the CO-brew ones have.
I have had working recirculation all the time since i started wet-milling the grains, but it haven't been as fast circulation as i have wanted - so i thought i would try this way to go.
I also have a 400micron mesh sided basket which i haven't tried yet - since the recircualtion started to work better when i have been wet milling the grains. Will be really interesting to see how this works out though.

 

[zman_]

I figured more filtration would be better but you're probably right in that the mash basket is unnecessary with the bag. If I can find something to prop the grain-filled bag up off of the heating element (any suggestions?) I'll likely try that next time.

I've seen people use stainless colanders or false bottoms to keep the bag off the element. My thought would be to use a steamer basket suspended in the pot, Concord sells them pretty cheap. That with a bag would be cheaper than a mesh basket I think

 

[RollE2k]

If you're truly wet milling on a home brew scale, I'd love to see your set up. But, I suspect that instead you're conditioning your grains with a spritz of water to soften the husk before running it through your mill.

Wet milling is entirely different than conditioning, but golly I hope you're wet milling so I can see it implemented on a small scale.

Yes, you are right - i was meaning conditioning the malt. The point of both methods is still the same, more whole husk material.

Has anyone used both the solid sided basket and the full mesh basket?
Be interested in hearing the differences if any.

Not tried my mesh sided yet (400 micron on sides + bottom), but there was some thread here on this forum where i found about it a while ago - cannot remember the name of the thread though.
The problem is that most people who have tried both, have had trouble with stuck-or-almost-stuck mash with the solid sided, so it's not a fair comparison.
This is the reason why i ordered a solid sided with 600 micron mesh at bottom also - to help with better flow.
because if solid sided would work as intended, then i'm really certain it would be the best method - because it's alot easier to sparge with solid walls, and during mashing the wort would actually be moving through the grain bend, rather than over the top, and out on the sides of it.

I will compare later on just out of my own curiosity.

I myself haven't tried the "whirlpool" mash technique that CO Brewing sells, but too me it seems like a really bad design, considering it seems to give both alot of recircualtion problems if not using very little malts, and it also seems too left a lot of malt/mash junk in the kettle afterwards.. The junk in the kettle isn't either helping the scorching of the element.

 

[cyclonebeer]

Has anyone used both the solid sided basket and the full mesh basket?

Seems like most folk on this thread have a solid side basket. I got my rig before CBS came out with the solid side. Never had a stuck mash with my all mesh basket. I can recirculate with the pump wide open. I get 80% efficiency without breaking a sweat and can get 90% by taking a few extra steps. I would encourage anybody to consider an all mesh basket rather than swapping a 400 micron solid side for a 600 micron solid side. IMHO, I believe that wort is going to channel through the grain bed regardless of basket design. Fluids take the path of least resistance. Can't fight physics, but you can conquer sticky mashes.

 

[RollE2k]

Has anyone used both the solid sided basket and the full mesh basket?

Seems like most folk on this thread have a solid side basket. I got my rig before CBS came out with the solid side. Never had a stuck mash with my all mesh basket. I can recirculate with the pump wide open. I get 80% efficiency without breaking a sweat and can get 90% by taking a few extra steps. I would encourage anybody to consider an all mesh basket rather than swapping a 400 micron solid side for a 600 micron solid side. IMHO, I believe that wort is going to channel through the grain bed regardless of basket design. Fluids take the path of least resistance. Can't fight physics, but you can conquer sticky mashes.

I really believe channeling is not a problem whatsoever - because if it really was - then a 3-kettle system with a separate mashtun (recirculate top to bottom) would have the same problem as these systems.. because the principle is the same - with only the pump actually helping to suck the wort through top to bottom - while on our systems its only the gravity that helps pushing from top to bottom.

That said, i have a mesh sided basket now also - and i will compare both later on, when i have gotten the solid sided with 600 micron. I have actually gotten 80% Brewhouse efficiency with solid sided (and 400 micron bottom), when i have had good working recirculation - so mash efficiency have been much higher than 85% those times.

 

[jabba11]

I did a wheat beer last Friday. 20 pounds total grain 9 pounds of wheat with 15 gallons of water. I use 6 ounces of rice hulls. I recirculate through the SS manifold AND underneath the basket. Both wide open this time. I do the sac rest and stirred it twice during that. Then I never stirred again. No stuck mash no scorching, nothing. Smoothest wheat I have done. ! gallon hot quick sparge at the end of the mash. 81% efficiency, which is a little lower than I have been getting so I may up my hulls next time.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

I did a wheat beer last Friday. 20 pounds total grain 9 pounds of wheat with 15 gallons of water. I use 6 ounces of rice hulls. I recirculate through the SS manifold AND underneath the basket. Both wide open this time. I do the sac rest and stirred it twice during that. Then I never stirred again. No stuck mash no scorching, nothing. Smoothest wheat I have done. ! gallon hot quick sparge at the end of the mash. 81% efficiency, which is a little lower than I have been getting so I may up my hulls next time.

My last blonde with the 12 or 15# of wheat had no issues and was right there efficiency wise. I can't compare pumps with the chugger max but I had the valve 1/4 open. At half open it shoots wort out of the basket lol.

Dialing these systems in definitely takes some time but two of the best things you can do imo is circulation under the basket so you don't have to worry about scorching the wort during the mash and using the mash manifold. Once you've done those two things focus on grain crush that will work with your system, grain bill, and brew size. There isn't going to be a one setting fits all here.

Every batch I make now is over 30# of grain and they've been going well since I made those two changes. I still haven't cleaned my element other than just power washing it at the end of the batch and it's been 7-8? Batches, it's clean every time.

 

[jabba11]

My last blonde with the 12 or 15# of wheat had no issues and was right there efficiency wise. I can't compare pumps with the chugger max but I had the valve 1/4 open. At half open it shoots wort out of the basket lol.

Dialing these systems in definitely takes some time but two of the best things you can do imo is circulation under the basket so you don't have to worry about scorching the wort during the mash and using the mash manifold. Once you've done those two things focus on grain crush that will work with your system, grain bill, and brew size. There isn't going to be a one setting fits all here.

Every batch I make now is over 30# of grain and they've been going well since I made those two changes. I still haven't cleaned my element other than just power washing it at the end of the batch and it's been 7-8? Batches, it's clean every time.

I agree. I also think a ULD ripple helps with the scorching. I still get some build up on it but not the scorch. I also agree though theres probably lots of ways to make this system work for you. Theres not one solution. The pump that came with mine seems fine for what I brew. I dont know how well it would work doing a barley wine if I ran both valves wide open. It may struggle to keep temp in the grain bed then Im not sure. There does seem to be plenty of flow through the whirlpool though as its the path of least resistance when both are wide open. Still in the last 4 brews my grain bed temps are rock steady and the ULD helps with overshoots as well I think.

 

[akthor]

I used my march nano pump for the 1st time when I cleaned, passified my 1bbl Conicals and tested my glycol system. Holy geez so much more powerful than my old chuggers I can't imagine I'll be able to recirculate at wide open.

I got the whirlpool fitting from CO I'm toying with the idea of running the manifold on top and the whirlpool either on the side or below the basket based on what I'm reading from everyone on here. It seems added flow around the basket can't hurt and can be quite beneficial.

 

[RollE2k]

The biggest problem with scorching should be due to whirlpooling the grains inside the basket, because it gives alot of malt junk at or around the element, which makes it scorch alot easier.. but also due to not using ULWD element. I have never had problem with that, but then i have never whirlpooled my grains - rather i have used ultimate sparge arm, and i also have 3x1600w where each of the the heater tubes are 15.75" long(2x that length because they always go back).. so alot lower watt density than any elements from big brands.
I have acually also ordered a new kettle, where i will be using a 2" Tri clamp element instead, where the diameter of each heating tube will be 10mm instead of approx 8mm today - for easier cleaning, and even lower watt density.

 

[jabba11]

The biggest problem with scorching should be due to whirlpooling the grains inside the basket, because it gives alot of malt junk at or around the element, which makes it scorch alot easier.. but also due to not using ULWD element. I have never had problem with that, but then i have never whirlpooled my grains - rather i have used ultimate sparge arm, and i also have 3x1600w where each of the the heater tubes are 15.75" long(2x that length because they always go back).. so alot lower watt density than any elements from big brands.
I have acually also ordered a new kettle, where i will be using a 2" Tri clamp element instead, where the diameter of each heating tube will be 10mm instead of approx 8mm today - for easier cleaning, and even lower watt density.

Fwiw im not talking about whirlpooling the grains but rather whirpooling UNDER the basket during the mash.

 

[RollE2k]

Fwiw im not talking about whirlpooling the grains but rather whirpooling UNDER the basket during the mash.

Yes, i know that it have worked for you guys.. But my thought is that it is a half strange fix for a bad system design (by co brewing).
They should have used lower watt density heater, and they should also not have used the basket whirlpooling. Because the scorching problem seems to happen for most people, and when whirpooling the grains, people get alot of junk left in the boil kettle..

Since i only have basket from Co Brewing, i don't have the rest of their system - and i have never had these troubles - except a stuck mash once.. that time i had to stir the mash all the time, and it gave alot of junk in the kettle. Still not scorching though.

But i do think kettle whirlpooling while mashing sounds like a good temporary fix though.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Yes, i know that it have worked for you guys.. But my thought is that it is a half strange fix for a bad system design (by co brewing).
They should have used lower watt density heater, and they should also not have used the basket whirlpooling. Because the scorching problem seems to happen for most people, and when whirpooling the grains, people get alot of junk left in the boil kettle..

Since i only have basket from Co Brewing, i don't have the rest of their system - and i have never had these troubles - except a stuck mash once.. that time i had to stir the mash all the time, and it gave alot of junk in the kettle. Still not scorching though.

But i do think kettle whirlpooling while mashing sounds like a good temporary fix though.

I'm not sure why you think that whirlpooling under the basket results in dirty wort but I can assure you that is not the result. I don't think you're understanding what is actually happening.

 

[cyclonebeer]

I'm not sure why you think that whirlpooling under the kettle results in dirty wort but I can assure you that is not the result. I don't think you're understanding what is actually happening.

Are people confusing whirlpooling post chill to cone up break material and hops with "whirlpooling" during re-circulation of the mash? Indeed - two completely different processes with two completely different expected results.

 

[RollE2k]

I'm not sure why you think that whirlpooling under the basket results in dirty wort but I can assure you that is not the result. I don't think you're understanding what is actually happening.

No, that was not what im saying.. if you re-read my last post i say that whirlpooling the grains inside the basket gives dirty wort.
The whirlpooling under the basket i understand move the wort to prevent scorching.. but my thought is that it shouldnt even be needed if the right element was beeing used from the beginning.