Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

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Horseflesh said:
I've got the Beersmith equipment profile for the Nano 20 gal, but how are you guys setting up the mash process?
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Id need a little more info about what you are asking. My Mash temps are based on recipe. how much water is based on grain and desired gallons of beer your brewing all of which are calculated. If I am doing a sac rest I have to add that in (for wheat beers). For mashing I heat the water to a few degrees above my desired mash temp. Once it reaches that temp I dump all the grain into the basket and set it for my desired mash temp. I stir it a few times while it finishes heating to my desired mash temp and then I simply let it recirc on its own. Once I am done mashing I turn it up to sparge temp usually with a 5-7 min rise time and then 10 mins at sparge temp 168-170. Helpful?
 
The recipe is the easy part -- like, mash at 150F for 60 minutes, or add a ferulic acid rest, etc. It's how to tell Beersmith what I want that I am trying to figure out. Beersmith needs to know how much water to use and what the mash steps are to calculate gravity and pH, right?

I've been doing AG in coolers for a while, and in the mash setup you tell Beersmith how much water per pound of grain you want to use, and the temperature of the grain, and it figures out a strike temperature and tells you how much water you need. But with this electric recirculating system I know we have to use more water per pound of grain, and I am sure there are other changes too, and I am not sure how to configure Beersmith for that.

Beersmith has a big list of mash profiles and I am unsure which one is the closest starting point for the Nano Home.

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And if you look at the details inside a mash step, I'm not sure how to set this stuff up either.

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OK, answering my own questions here! I think I have figured this out and would appreciate your input.

First, the CBS water calculator seems to have an error. The Loss to Boil field C12 is fixed at 3.

losstoboil.png

I believe that this value should be calculated from your boil off rate (per hour) and the length of the boil. C12 should probably be this equation: =C3/60*C7

The CBS water calculator has a field for Grain Absorption Rate, C7. The default value is 0.1, which I believe must be in gallons per pound. You can make Beersmith's match this value if you look in the Advanced settings under BIAB Grain Absorb. Beersmith's default value here is 0.586 fl oz/oz. You can make this value match the CBS spreadsheet value of 0.1 gal/lb if you enter 0.8 fl oz/oz.

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In Beersmith, the BIAB mash profiles will use all the brewing water at once, so I guess that's the base mash profile to start with. Copy one of the existing BIAB profiles to a new Nano Home version and adjust the step temperature as needed.

Now, build a Beersmith recipe with the CBS equipment profile and the BIAB-based mash profile. Then put the total grain bill, boil time, and final volume into the CBS spreadsheet. You should see pretty good agreement between the CBS spreadsheet total water amount and the Beersmith total water amount.

(Your actual boil-off rate may be different than the values in the CBS spreadsheet depending on altitude etc, but enter your true value both in the Beersmith equipment profile and the spreadsheet and everything should work out.)

My test recipe with 10.97 lb grain and a 5.5 gal final batch size came out to 8.66 gal in the CBS spreadsheet, and 8.64 gal in Beersmith. Now, I feel like I can design a recipe in Beersmith and get water volumes that match the CBS worksheet.

Then again, I don't have my Nano Home yet so maybe all of this will fall apart!

Later I will post a modified version of the CBS spreadsheet with the correction I mentioned, plus some edits for clarity. Looks like I can't attach ODS or Zip files here.
 
Ok. I see what your asking kind of. For me, yes, I use BIAB light body for say my light ales. Now that said I adjust mash temps etc for the recipe under mash. Water is calculated based on grain bill and desired gallons of cooled wort and is calculated by beersmith for you. I have found it to be reasonably accurate. (within a half gallon or so) Boil off rate is the real variable here. I admit that beersmith isn't the most user friendly thing ever and Ive been using it so long I can forget what its like to look at what appears to be daunting. For my water chemistry I use bruinwater and don't fiddle much with beersmith although the new version has a few more features in that regard I haven't played with yet.
 
Thanks. I just pinged Tim at CBS and he also verified the Beersmith BIAB mash profile will work, and you can just use that instead of their spreadsheet. Beersmith and CBS are using different values for grain absorption but the end results are pretty close. I guess we should all calculate our own absorption value, which will be dependent on crush and grain type anyway.
 
I need to get my laptop running so I can use the full BS potential. The app is limited.

Getting really close to brewing and have yet to mess with calibration or setup parameters
 
30Bones said:
I need to get my laptop running so I can use the full BS potential. The app is limited.

Getting really close to brewing and have yet to mess with calibration or setup parameters
Click to expand...

Yes, I do all my calcs on the puter typically then save to the cloud and copy back to my phone just before brewing. I have actually built most of recipe in my phone before but theres some things you cant access etc.
 
jabba11 said:
Yes, I do all my calcs on the puter typically then save to the cloud and copy back to my phone just before brewing. I have actually built most of recipe in my phone before but theres some things you cant access etc.
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OH I build recipes all the time with the app, but equipment profiles are so much more powerful on a PC. Not to mention the add ons for hops, grains, yeasts, etc.
 
Brew day number 3 today. Water automation was hooked up last night, definitely the way to go. Cherry wheat today, using a hop spider today for the first time, brewing starts at 5.
 
Your rig is pre-touchscreen right? So your water automation is DIY, not CBS-style?

What kind of hop spider did you get? I need to get something like that, but my situation is complicated by the fact that I am getting a 20 gallon system and usually using it for 5 gallon batches. If I had a hop spider on top of the kettle, it'd be a pretty huge bag!
 
I didn't have a hop spider and used some whole hops which quickly clogged the pump. I was thinking of getting one but didn't know if it would be able to reach the wort effectively since it was such a small amount in a larger kettle. So I rigged up a bazooka screen with the pickup tube at an angle. I haven't tried it out but will see if it will fix the hop debris issue next time. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1472155501.054757.jpg
 
Horseflesh said:
Your rig is pre-touchscreen right? So your water automation is DIY, not CBS-style?

What kind of hop spider did you get? I need to get something like that, but my situation is complicated by the fact that I am getting a 20 gallon system and usually using it for 5 gallon batches. If I had a hop spider on top of the kettle, it'd be a pretty huge bag!
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It is pre touch screen. The automation worked awesome, $45 well spent. Just ebay search 1/2" automated flow meter. It was calibrated perfect from the factory. Ended up with two 6.5 gallon batches which is what I was aiming for.

As far as the hop spider I got mine from Arbor fabricating but they can be had other places cheaper. I believe arbors are made on site. It worked great for the 60 and 0 minute hops, the 10 minute hops I just dumped in to the boil due to too much drinking during brewing. Between the two of us we finished 18 beers :tank: .

Wort is in the carboy with a large yeast starter, only 20 hours on the starter so hopefully it still takes off. Full video of the brew was taken so I will update once edited.
 
Eamster said:
I didn't have a hop spider and used some whole hops which quickly clogged the pump. I was thinking of getting one but didn't know if it would be able to reach the wort effectively since it was such a small amount in a larger kettle. So I rigged up a bazooka screen with the pickup tube at an angle. I haven't tried it out but will see if it will fix the hop debris issue next time. View attachment 367740
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I was thinking something like that would be in order with that huge pick up tube. For the time being I plan to just use hop bags, but when I get to a hoppy IPA I may want to have this mod in place.
 
Received my 20 gallon down under system this week and got it dry fitted. Cleaned everything but haven't had a chance to run water through it yet. I do have one question for folks that are still doing 5 gallon batches. The kettle that came with mine is actually 100 quarts (25 gallons) and I'm worried that it is going to be too big for running 5 gallon batches. I looked up the specs on concord's site as they are the makers of the kettle and it looks like the 100qt is 2 inches wider than the 80qt. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I try to decide if I should contact Tim to ask for the smaller kettle.

image.jpg
 
Huh. Before I ordered my Nano Home 20 Tim verified it would do 5 gal batches. Your kettle definitely looks bigger than what I remember seeing though, and I thought our setups were more alike than different. (Mine hasn't shipped yet.)

You also have the bigger touchscreen which I did not think was needed on one vessel systems.

When did you order?
 
I ordered back in May, but delayed the delivery because I wanted the touchscreen. The touchscreen is actually the smaller 4.3 inch for the single system, they originally were going with 3.5 but decided the extra space was better. I too had verified with Tim before ordering back in May about the batch sizes. When I first put everything together I thought I had a smaller mash basket because I had so much extra space inside the kettle, then I saw the size markings on the kettle and it was the larger 100qt size, extra 2 inch diameter makes a big difference.

Looking through all the pages on the thread and it looks like people with 20 gallon systems have the correctly sized 80qt kettles.
 
This is down in my basement and about 10ft away is a sink with a pump which I will just run a longer hose to. My washer and drier are right above it so I plan to tap into that waterline for easy kettle filling.

I'm kind of torn because on one hand I can make bigger batches but if it will be too much of a pain to continue doing 5 gallon batches I think I'll want to have it swapped out.
 
In your situation I'd probably have to swap. I got the 20 gallon system because I want the option to do bigger batches, and I expect to be using this system for many years. But today, I am all about 5 gallon batches.

I should drop Tim a line and make sure I don't end up with the bigger kettle. Can't hurt to bring it up.
 
I've emailed Tim to see about swapping kettles, will report back when I hear from him. I'm wondering if they were having issues getting 80 quart kettles in stock so they went with 100s to keep production going.
 
Word back from Tim is that they've updated the down under to come with the 25 gallon kettle vs the 20. The down under is mostly purchased by commercial breweries for their pilot brews and wanted the extra space.

He's good with swapping my kettle out, so I just need to decide if it really is too big to do 5 gallons.
 
usarcher said:
Word back from Tim is that they've updated the down under to come with the 25 gallon kettle vs the 20. The down under is mostly purchased by commercial breweries for their pilot brews and wanted the extra space.

He's good with swapping my kettle out, so I just need to decide if it really is too big to do 5 gallons.
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If you want to swap I'll swap you. I have a 20 gallon kettle with 4 brews on it. I had him add a whirlpool port to the bottom of mine so they should be basically the same kettle. If you're interested let me know. I'd like to be able to do 15 gallon batches easily and not worry it.

I'd have to measure my stand but as long as it would fit I'd be interested in swapping out for a bigger kettle.
 
Ozarks_Mountain_Brew said:
its not, i have the same set up, I created a prototype years ago, it does brew 5 gallons just very low in the pot, the good news is "no boil over" will ever happen
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When you do 5 gallons do you have any issues with getting the grains fully submerged?

I did some measuring and calculating last night and this morning again. The kettle is 20 inches wide and 19.5 inches high which gives it about 0.735 inches per gallon. The basket is 15.5 inches high and the mesh bottom is about an inch above that, so the grain bed starts about 5 inches above the bottom of the kettle. So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed. Calculating for a kettle with 18 in diameter and 19 in height, gives .908 in per gallon, so I'd gain another .5 inches from the shorter kettle and 1.73 inches from the smaller diameter, giving about 4.5 inches for the grain bed.

This is my first step up to all grain so not 100% sure how much space the grain really needs. If I find my grains aren't covered enough could I just add more water to start and boil more off before adding my hops? I wouldn't mind keeping the kettle so I could run the occasional big batch.
 
the issue I had was the area from the inside pot to the outside allowed that wort to heat to a higher degree when the mash temp was low making it seem too hot, I never measured the temp but was way too hot and some times foamed up like a boil over, so I went to the 20 gallon and used the 15 as the basket and that fits perfect and using the 20 gallon as a boil pot is not as boil over free but you can tame it very easy for a 10 gallon batch I mean, so in my opinion just for that reason alone the 20 would be better
 
usarcher said:
...So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed.
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Like I said, I don't have my Nano 20 yet, but I do have one recipe switched over. A 5 gallon batch of hefeweizen requires 11 lbs of grain and a total water volume of 8.6 gallons.

If your kettle is about 0.735 in/gal, then the height of the 1.8 gallons of water which will exceed the mesh bottom level comes to 1.3". Right?

These values are also predicated on estimated mash and brewhouse efficiency values of 70%. Actual efficiency will probably be higher, which would reduce both the amount of grain and water needed.

I don't have the answer, but that doesn't seem like a great fit for 5 gallon batches.
 
usarcher said:
When you do 5 gallons do you have any issues with getting the grains fully submerged?

I did some measuring and calculating last night and this morning again. The kettle is 20 inches wide and 19.5 inches high which gives it about 0.735 inches per gallon. The basket is 15.5 inches high and the mesh bottom is about an inch above that, so the grain bed starts about 5 inches above the bottom of the kettle. So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed. Calculating for a kettle with 18 in diameter and 19 in height, gives .908 in per gallon, so I'd gain another .5 inches from the shorter kettle and 1.73 inches from the smaller diameter, giving about 4.5 inches for the grain bed.

This is my first step up to all grain so not 100% sure how much space the grain really needs. If I find my grains aren't covered enough could I just add more water to start and boil more off before adding my hops? I wouldn't mind keeping the kettle so I could run the occasional big batch.
Click to expand...
for my set up I used a 3 inch space between the bottom of the inside pot and the bottom of the kettle and all I did was use enough water to cover the grain by an inch while recirculating making the sparge less because of the wide pot but it does work, because of that less amount of spargable water I started recirculating my sparge water again after adding it just to wash it I guess and it worked fine, just to clarify I didn't like making 5 gallon batches in such a large pot but it worked well for 10
 
Mashed in today. I thought Id share a tip Ive been doing and seems to work and is helpful to get the bed to temp correctly. When I mash in I stir the mash frequently until the temp stabilizes and at the same time I watch to see what setting is best to get proper recirc. This usually takes about the first 7-10 minutes of the mash. When I raise temp to sparge I raise it to 168-170 open the pump full and then I stir the bed again once or twice until the temp settles in. Then I reset the pump speed. This only takes a few minutes tops. Ive found this gives me the fastest and best bed temps.
 
jabba11 said:
Mashed in today. I thought Id share a tip Ive been doing and seems to work and is helpful to get the bed to temp correctly. When I mash in I stir the mash frequently until the temp stabilizes and at the same time I watch to see what setting is best to get proper recirc. This usually takes about the first 7-10 minutes of the mash. When I raise temp to sparge I raise it to 168-170 open the pump full and then I stir the bed again once or twice until the temp settles in. Then I reset the pump speed. This only takes a few minutes tops. Ive found this gives me the fastest and best bed temps.
Click to expand...

I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.
 
02RedWS6TA said:
I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.
Click to expand...
I use the pump and recirc arm to whirlpool at the end. What gets through I dump out of the bottom of my conical. I know that's not possible for everyone but what comes out of the conical is typically not something Id worry a lot about in a regular fermenter. Seems to be mostly hop parts and protiens
 
02RedWS6TA said:
I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.
Click to expand...

I run a whirlpool with my pump then let it settle for around 10 minutes. Then I slowly drain through the chiller. If I stop before it all drains out i don't see much going into the chiller. I'm debating trying to raise the edge of the kettle a bit so the trub would have to run uphill.
 
Hope this comes across clearly via text.....

DL'ed the Beersmith equipment profile from CO Brewing and making a 10 gall recipe for a simple saison for my first brew session. I have a 25# grain bill, 1.055 SG and it's saying 16 gallons of water needed.

Problem is the profile has my mash tun at 15 gallons, so BS is sayng I need an 18gal mash tun. So effectively with these numbers I need to hold back 3 gallons. Now I realize the kettle is 20 gallons and not all that volume is contained in the "mash tun" and I feel it will be "ok" but want to confirm this with some of you that have used the system
 
16 gallons seems about right. I usually mash in with 8 for 5 gal recipes and then do a very small sparge after I lift my basked to hit my boil volume (7 gal). I have never sparged more than a gallon.
My recommendation: err on the generous side and run a long boil to hit your volume.
As far as volumes go, I have found this system to be extremely forgiving.
 
Not questioning the amount of water, I am questioning whether full water volume and grains will fit in this system.

I really was not wanting to sparge......ever which is why I went to a single vessel Bigger beers (1.060 and up) will be 5 gallon batches, was hopping 1.055 and under could always be 10's
 
After a good grain squeeze, I tend to retain .25 fl oz / oz grain. That's .5qt/lb or 1/8 gal per lb. A moderate squeeze probably retains slightly under twice that amount.

I also hold back one or two gallons to pour sparge, squeeze well, and err on the low side for water, as it is MUCH easier to add a gallon than to boil for another hour.
 

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