Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[usarcher]

I've emailed Tim to see about swapping kettles, will report back when I hear from him. I'm wondering if they were having issues getting 80 quart kettles in stock so they went with 100s to keep production going.

 

[usarcher]

Word back from Tim is that they've updated the down under to come with the 25 gallon kettle vs the 20. The down under is mostly purchased by commercial breweries for their pilot brews and wanted the extra space.

He's good with swapping my kettle out, so I just need to decide if it really is too big to do 5 gallons.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

its not, i have the same set up, I created a prototype years ago, it does brew 5 gallons just very low in the pot, the good news is "no boil over" will ever happen

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Word back from Tim is that they've updated the down under to come with the 25 gallon kettle vs the 20. The down under is mostly purchased by commercial breweries for their pilot brews and wanted the extra space.

He's good with swapping my kettle out, so I just need to decide if it really is too big to do 5 gallons.

If you want to swap I'll swap you. I have a 20 gallon kettle with 4 brews on it. I had him add a whirlpool port to the bottom of mine so they should be basically the same kettle. If you're interested let me know. I'd like to be able to do 15 gallon batches easily and not worry it.

I'd have to measure my stand but as long as it would fit I'd be interested in swapping out for a bigger kettle.

 

[usarcher]

its not, i have the same set up, I created a prototype years ago, it does brew 5 gallons just very low in the pot, the good news is "no boil over" will ever happen

When you do 5 gallons do you have any issues with getting the grains fully submerged?

I did some measuring and calculating last night and this morning again. The kettle is 20 inches wide and 19.5 inches high which gives it about 0.735 inches per gallon. The basket is 15.5 inches high and the mesh bottom is about an inch above that, so the grain bed starts about 5 inches above the bottom of the kettle. So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed. Calculating for a kettle with 18 in diameter and 19 in height, gives .908 in per gallon, so I'd gain another .5 inches from the shorter kettle and 1.73 inches from the smaller diameter, giving about 4.5 inches for the grain bed.

This is my first step up to all grain so not 100% sure how much space the grain really needs. If I find my grains aren't covered enough could I just add more water to start and boil more off before adding my hops? I wouldn't mind keeping the kettle so I could run the occasional big batch.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

the issue I had was the area from the inside pot to the outside allowed that wort to heat to a higher degree when the mash temp was low making it seem too hot, I never measured the temp but was way too hot and some times foamed up like a boil over, so I went to the 20 gallon and used the 15 as the basket and that fits perfect and using the 20 gallon as a boil pot is not as boil over free but you can tame it very easy for a 10 gallon batch I mean, so in my opinion just for that reason alone the 20 would be better

 

[Horseflesh]

...So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed.

Like I said, I don't have my Nano 20 yet, but I do have one recipe switched over. A 5 gallon batch of hefeweizen requires 11 lbs of grain and a total water volume of 8.6 gallons.

If your kettle is about 0.735 in/gal, then the height of the 1.8 gallons of water which will exceed the mesh bottom level comes to 1.3". Right?

These values are also predicated on estimated mash and brewhouse efficiency values of 70%. Actual efficiency will probably be higher, which would reduce both the amount of grain and water needed.

I don't have the answer, but that doesn't seem like a great fit for 5 gallon batches.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

When you do 5 gallons do you have any issues with getting the grains fully submerged?

I did some measuring and calculating last night and this morning again. The kettle is 20 inches wide and 19.5 inches high which gives it about 0.735 inches per gallon. The basket is 15.5 inches high and the mesh bottom is about an inch above that, so the grain bed starts about 5 inches above the bottom of the kettle. So that's 6.8 gallons below the grain. If I started with say 10 gallons, the starting water line would be 2.35 inches above the mesh bottom. That seems pretty shallow for the grain bed. Calculating for a kettle with 18 in diameter and 19 in height, gives .908 in per gallon, so I'd gain another .5 inches from the shorter kettle and 1.73 inches from the smaller diameter, giving about 4.5 inches for the grain bed.

This is my first step up to all grain so not 100% sure how much space the grain really needs. If I find my grains aren't covered enough could I just add more water to start and boil more off before adding my hops? I wouldn't mind keeping the kettle so I could run the occasional big batch.

for my set up I used a 3 inch space between the bottom of the inside pot and the bottom of the kettle and all I did was use enough water to cover the grain by an inch while recirculating making the sparge less because of the wide pot but it does work, because of that less amount of spargable water I started recirculating my sparge water again after adding it just to wash it I guess and it worked fine, just to clarify I didn't like making 5 gallon batches in such a large pot but it worked well for 10

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Brew number 4 and the first one that came in low in OG supposed to be 1.053 and came in at 1.043. Vanilla java porter.

 

[jready]

Brew number 4 and the first one that came in low in OG supposed to be 1.053 and came in at 1.043. Vanilla java porter.

Yum! How did the rest of the brew day go?

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Yum! How did the rest of the brew day go?

Great, this system makes it to easy. Once the valving for the mash is set it is fine to twiddle thumbs. It's bubbling like crazy right now.



https://youtu.be/smfAMfJIx0c

 

[jabba11]

Mashed in today. I thought Id share a tip Ive been doing and seems to work and is helpful to get the bed to temp correctly. When I mash in I stir the mash frequently until the temp stabilizes and at the same time I watch to see what setting is best to get proper recirc. This usually takes about the first 7-10 minutes of the mash. When I raise temp to sparge I raise it to 168-170 open the pump full and then I stir the bed again once or twice until the temp settles in. Then I reset the pump speed. This only takes a few minutes tops. Ive found this gives me the fastest and best bed temps.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Mashed in today. I thought Id share a tip Ive been doing and seems to work and is helpful to get the bed to temp correctly. When I mash in I stir the mash frequently until the temp stabilizes and at the same time I watch to see what setting is best to get proper recirc. This usually takes about the first 7-10 minutes of the mash. When I raise temp to sparge I raise it to 168-170 open the pump full and then I stir the bed again once or twice until the temp settles in. Then I reset the pump speed. This only takes a few minutes tops. Ive found this gives me the fastest and best bed temps.

I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.

 

[jabba11]

I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.

I use the pump and recirc arm to whirlpool at the end. What gets through I dump out of the bottom of my conical. I know that's not possible for everyone but what comes out of the conical is typically not something Id worry a lot about in a regular fermenter. Seems to be mostly hop parts and protiens

 

[pretzelb]

I pretty much do the same thing for the first portion of the mash. I found that angling the little whirlpool valve down some helps a lot too. Once it's set I never have to touch it again and the mash seems to float pretty well.

What does everyone do about the trub that gets through? I crush at .045 or whatever it was Tim suggested but still get a ton of grain trub in the bottom of the kettle, enough that it plugs my plate chiller. I use a hop spider so it's basically all grain sediment getting through the screen.

For now I sanatize the chiller, pull the lines so I can get a whirlpool going, then hook the chiller back up but I'd like something a little more foolproof.

I run a whirlpool with my pump then let it settle for around 10 minutes. Then I slowly drain through the chiller. If I stop before it all drains out i don't see much going into the chiller. I'm debating trying to raise the edge of the kettle a bit so the trub would have to run uphill.

 

[30Bones]

Hope this comes across clearly via text.....

DL'ed the Beersmith equipment profile from CO Brewing and making a 10 gall recipe for a simple saison for my first brew session. I have a 25# grain bill, 1.055 SG and it's saying 16 gallons of water needed.

Problem is the profile has my mash tun at 15 gallons, so BS is sayng I need an 18gal mash tun. So effectively with these numbers I need to hold back 3 gallons. Now I realize the kettle is 20 gallons and not all that volume is contained in the "mash tun" and I feel it will be "ok" but want to confirm this with some of you that have used the system

 

[Howhownow]

16 gallons seems about right. I usually mash in with 8 for 5 gal recipes and then do a very small sparge after I lift my basked to hit my boil volume (7 gal). I have never sparged more than a gallon.
My recommendation: err on the generous side and run a long boil to hit your volume.
As far as volumes go, I have found this system to be extremely forgiving.

 

[30Bones]

Not questioning the amount of water, I am questioning whether full water volume and grains will fit in this system.

I really was not wanting to sparge......ever which is why I went to a single vessel Bigger beers (1.060 and up) will be 5 gallon batches, was hopping 1.055 and under could always be 10's

 

[andrewmaixner]

After a good grain squeeze, I tend to retain .25 fl oz / oz grain. That's .5qt/lb or 1/8 gal per lb. A moderate squeeze probably retains slightly under twice that amount.

I also hold back one or two gallons to pour sparge, squeeze well, and err on the low side for water, as it is MUCH easier to add a gallon than to boil for another hour.

 

[30Bones]

You don't have this system Andrew, was not planning on squeezing either.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

with that system which Ive had for 5 years you really don't have to pay attention to water amounts in any software just make sure the water is at least 2 to 3 inches above the grain when recirculating, the only reason water comes into play is mash thickness per the recipe but that gets thrown out the door if you don't sparge

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I always did what I mentioned above then any remaining water was ran over the top of the basket lifted in the air and drained into the pot until my starting boil volume was met

 

[30Bones]

Thanks, I am going to try going with beersmith's volumes and seeing where it lands me.

Odd that CO Brewing created a equipment profile for Beersmith and their Excel water calculator is almost 3 gallons more for the same grain amount.

 

[pretzelb]

Hope this comes across clearly via text.....

DL'ed the Beersmith equipment profile from CO Brewing and making a 10 gall recipe for a simple saison for my first brew session. I have a 25# grain bill, 1.055 SG and it's saying 16 gallons of water needed.

Problem is the profile has my mash tun at 15 gallons, so BS is sayng I need an 18gal mash tun. So effectively with these numbers I need to hold back 3 gallons. Now I realize the kettle is 20 gallons and not all that volume is contained in the "mash tun" and I feel it will be "ok" but want to confirm this with some of you that have used the system

The profile says 15? Can't you just update it to 20?

My last brew was 25.5 lbs of grain and 16.5 gallons of water. It was close to the top of the basket but it worked. Next time I will probably save 1 gallon, add the grain, then consider adding the gallon right back depending how it looks. But with 25 lbs and 16g you should be close but fine.

 

[Horseflesh]

Thanks, I am going to try going with beersmith's volumes and seeing where it lands me.

Odd that CO Brewing created a equipment profile for Beersmith and their Excel water calculator is almost 3 gallons more for the same grain amount.

Here is how I got Beersmith and the CBS calculator to match.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7683414#post7683414

 

[30Bones]

The profile says 15? Can't you just update it to 20?

My last brew was 25.5 lbs of grain and 16.5 gallons of water. It was close to the top of the basket but it worked. Next time I will probably save 1 gallon, add the grain, then consider adding the gallon right back depending how it looks. But with 25 lbs and 16g you should be close but fine.

Thanks, re-read my post. The BS profile for the 20 gallon system has the MT volume at 15 gallons, which is reality may be 15 gallons. I just view it differently and unsure if I should change it since while the basket maay be 15, the "tun" itself is 20 gallons

Here is how I got Beersmith and the CBS calculator to match.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7683414#post7683414

Thanks, I will read up and tweak it a bit.

 

[pretzelb]

Thanks, re-read my post. The BS profile for the 20 gallon system has the MT volume at 15 gallons, which is reality may be 15 gallons. I just view it differently and unsure if I should change it since while the basket maay be 15, the "tun" itself is 20 gallons


Thanks, I will read up and tweak it a bit.

I think the profile would be more accurate if you updated the 15 to 20. My basket is 15x16 and IIRC that calculates to only about 13g. So if you go by the measurement of the basket you will have to adjust down even more.

But the basket only holds the grains. The water fills the area in and around the basket. BeerSmith is probably assuming a normal kettle with a false bottom for the mash tun. But even though the basket limits the grains the water still flows to the full size of the kettle. So you might be slightly less than a 20g kettle with a false bottom but I doubt it will be 5g worth.

If you go into BeerSmith and look for the add-ons you will find profiles for the BrewBoss. This isn't the same as the CO Brewing but it also has a basket inside a 20g kettle that sits above a heating element and below the lid and inside the walls. All those have the mash volume setting at 20g and not 15g.

I bet if you change the mash volume setting from 15g to 20g you will find your recipe will fit. The stats I gave you from my last brew indicate you should be fine. If you want to be more conservative you could use a value of 19g or 18g just to be safe.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

come on guys theres nothing exact about bib, thats the beauty of it, easy to use, you don't have to think, just brew ...and drink lol

 

[30Bones]

I think the profile would be more accurate if you updated the 15 to 20. My basket is 15x16 and IIRC that calculates to only about 13g. So if you go by the measurement of the basket you will have to adjust down even more.

But the basket only holds the grains. The water fills the area in and around the basket. BeerSmith is probably assuming a normal kettle with a false bottom for the mash tun. But even though the basket limits the grains the water still flows to the full size of the kettle. So you might be slightly less than a 20g kettle with a false bottom but I doubt it will be 5g worth.

If you go into BeerSmith and look for the add-ons you will find profiles for the BrewBoss. This isn't the same as the CO Brewing but it also has a basket inside a 20g kettle that sits above a heating element and below the lid and inside the walls. All those have the mash volume setting at 20g and not 15g.

I bet if you change the mash volume setting from 15g to 20g you will find your recipe will fit. The stats I gave you from my last brew indicate you should be fine. If you want to be more conservative you could use a value of 19g or 18g just to be safe.

That's my thinking as well. I have my recipe made and will run with it. Likely be a Sunday brew day. Thanks

 

[pretzelb]

come on guys theres nothing exact about bib, thats the beauty of it, easy to use, you don't have to think, just brew ...and drink lol

It bothers me to no end when I don't get the gravity readings I expect. At the end of the day it still ends up beer but when I want a 6% ABV beer I'm not thrilled that I end up with a 4.9% beer.