Ugggggghhhh Grainfather!

[augiedoggy]

That doesn’t surprise me at all. Seems like grainfather is pretty aware of a lot of these issues. It’s just been pretty irritating always wondering if I’m going to have to drag out my old equipment. Hopefully they can fix it. I just don’t have the time to wait around again for months hoping that this time it actually fixes the problem.

Grainfather is not alone it seems with this issue... every all in one system I know of on this forum seems to be one its umpteen revision with field fixes and upgrades or worse... the lack of any support causing many to get frustrated and throw them away.
The main difference here is grainfather costs about twice as much as most of the other competing systems so they really shouldnt be having these problems as much.

 

[augiedoggy]

New Zealand yes, but still made in China

Ditto New Zealand company designed them from a repurposed hot water urn and likely has them made in china CHEAPLY like just about everything else.. which is why these problems exist. Grainfather should take some of the huge markup profit they make off each one and put it into better engineering/build quality.

makes me wonder about the new blichmann/anvil chinese made competitor "the Foundry" that does 10 gallon batches, runs on either 120 or 140v and is half the cost of the grainfather... seems to answer many of the requests mentioned here, but how will the quality stack up.

 

[augiedoggy]

More American made crap with Chinese parts in em. Like a Maytag washer, 600 bucks with a 45 dollar Chinese circuit board in it. Not to say China is making bad parts but the circuit boards, vibration and moisture just don't work well together. Like my 4000 Kenmore fridge made by LG that lasted 30 months and with one warranty visit that cost 320 at 18 months. /Rant

Off topic but I,m 99% sure both those "brands" are now just marketing tricks for companies like electrolux, they make like a large percentage of all the worlds appliances now and sell them under all sorts of brand names we thought were good independant companies still like whirlpool, kenmore , amana, hotpoint, LG, GE and the list goes on... some of the companies are still independent like GE but no longer make much of thier own appliances and instead, lease the rights to exploit thier name to electrolux to take advantage of brand recognition and our ignorance. some make thier own smaller appliances but have electrolux make the bigger ones. many of these companies now make thier competitors products for them like beer producers do. http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml
Also im fairly certain electrolux closed their US manufacturing lines a couple years ago and moved to Mexico. I remember hearing about the small town being devastated on NPR when it happened.
This is why I just rebuild my 12 year old Frigidaire (electrolux too btw) front loaders rather than replace them with newer units designed to last 3-5 years that have gone up over $100 each in the last year thanks to the tariffs.

 

[Bubbles2]

I

Off topic but I,m 99% sure both those "brands" are now just marketing tricks for companies like electrolux, they make like a large percentage of all the worlds appliances now and sell them under all sorts of brand names we thought were good independant companies still like whirlpool, kenmore , amana, hotpoint, LG, GE and the list goes on... some of the companies are still independent like GE but no longer make much of thier own appliances and instead, lease the rights to exploit thier name to electrolux to take advantage of brand recognition and our ignorance. some make thier own smaller appliances but have electrolux make the bigger ones. many of these companies now make thier competitors products for them like beer producers do. http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml
Also im fairly certain electrolux closed their US manufacturing lines a couple years ago and moved to Mexico. I remember hearing about the small town being devastated on NPR when it happened.
This is why I just rebuild my 12 year old Frigidaire (electrolux too btw) front loaders rather than replace them with newer units designed to last 3-5 years that have gone up over $100 each in the last year thanks to the tariffs.

I love my 20 year old Roper Dryer, nothing but a 'click' timer, light bulb and electric pilot, gas unit.
I just tossed that Kenmore and now have bought two full size uprights, one a freezer with no Icemaker, Water Filter, T.V, and a fridge the same. The Whirlpool said made in USA with a Panasonic Compressor as is the Fridgedair Freezer. The repair guy stated when he came out to fix it the 1st time that LG knows they are sending defective Compressors, and once cut out and removed, no vacuum will get the fine particles out of the system and will continue to break down. You are right about the a few manufacture's and badging. I bought both for 1800 and with a no questions 0 deduct 5 year warranty. IF they do not sell a warranty with their junk I do not buy it. Heck even the warranty if I never use it I am credited back after 5 years BUT I MUST request it or all bets off. FWIW, taped a note next to info inside to do just that.
Back on Point
The G.F, and all the others, need to use a circuit board(s), we understand, however they need to be sealed and shock resistant as a tablet vs a desktop (those are computers for you youngins)
I cringed when I saw Williams advertising dented inventory for a 100 off retail and they show you how to change the circuit board and how readily available they are....That is a HUGE Flag.

 

[IslandLizard]

FWIW, taped a note next to info inside to do just that.

Put it on your calendar! That's the only reminder you need, and timed just right.

I'm totally with you on the inferiority of products flooding the markets, with meaningless warranties. With today's technology appliances should be able to last 10-20 years without any repairs, just routine maintenance that can be performed by the consumer, even when the population pool seems to get dumber by the year. Those appliances should not cost a dime more than they already are.

 

[Bubbles2]

Put it on your calendar! That's the only reminder you need, and timed just right.

I'm totally with you on the inferiority of products flooding the markets, with meaningless warranties. With today's technology appliances should be able to last 10-20 years without any repairs, just routine maintenance that can be performed by the consumer, even when the population pool seems to get dumber by the year. Those appliances should not cost a dime more than they already are.

I don't have a calendar for five years in advance.

 

[augiedoggy]

I

I love my 20 year old Roper Dryer, nothing but a 'click' timer, light bulb and electric pilot, gas unit.
I just tossed that Kenmore and now have bought two full size uprights, one a freezer with no Icemaker, Water Filter, T.V, and a fridge the same. The Whirlpool said made in USA with a Panasonic Compressor as is the Fridgedair Freezer. The repair guy stated when he came out to fix it the 1st time that LG knows they are sending defective Compressors, and once cut out and removed, no vacuum will get the fine particles out of the system and will continue to break down. You are right about the a few manufacture's and badging. I bought both for 1800 and with a no questions 0 deduct 5 year warranty. IF they do not sell a warranty with their junk I do not buy it. Heck even the warranty if I never use it I am credited back after 5 years BUT I MUST request it or all bets off. FWIW, taped a note next to info inside to do just that.
Back on Point
The G.F, and all the others, need to use a circuit board(s), we understand, however they need to be sealed and shock resistant as a tablet vs a desktop (those are computers for you youngins)
I cringed when I saw Williams advertising dented inventory for a 100 off retail and they show you how to change the circuit board and how readily available they are....That is a HUGE Flag.

I am not sure im understanding your comment here. You say you bought made in the USA whirlpool and Frigidaire appliances with panasonic compressors (a japanese company who makes these compressors supposedly all over the world) But the confusing part is then you commented about LG knowing they are sending defective compressors? its a bit confusing unless you just speaking about what a repair guy mentioned about something other than what you have?

Again it really depends on which actual model as to who actually makes it where the brand has little to do with this now. I have an LG fridge myself which was made by electrolux... I know because it was a $2,300 fridge that I cannot obtain replacement parts for because 5 years after they were no longer made the parts were discontinued and I have a broken icemaker as a result... No I did not buy it new. but my research of the defect led me to a common issue and an electrolux part..

as far as these GF and the like go, they are being built as cheaply as possible for max profit. as a result the proper mechanical or solid state relay and wiring are not always being implemented but rather a less expensive all in one on board solution which often causes more heat and premature failure. Add the fact that these were designed for European 220v power where the amp load on the components is literally half of what it would be in a 120v application and you have a bad situation more prone to failure in our country.
from a manufacturing standpoint the GF likely costs less than $50 per unit to manufacture.. without better competition they can do this without worry, they are banking on the fact that many of the people that buy these dont stay in the hobby long term or will upgrade and will sell these off to others before failures occur. more than half of the people that dabble in homebrewing fall into this category.

 

[Bubbles2]

I am not sure im understanding your comment here. You say you bought made in the USA whirlpool and Frigidaire appliances with panasonic compressors (a japanese company who makes these compressors supposedly all over the world) But the confusing part is then you commented about LG knowing they are sending defective compressors? its a bit confusing unless you just speaking about what a repair guy mentioned about something other than what you have?

Again it really depends on which actual model as to who actually makes it where the brand has little to do with this now. I have an LG fridge myself which was made by electrolux... I know because it was a $2,300 fridge that I cannot obtain replacement parts for because 5 years after they were no longer made the parts were discontinued and I have a broken icemaker as a result... No I did not buy it new.

as far as these GF and the like go, they are being built as cheaply as possible for max profit. as a result the proper mechanical or solid state relay and wiring are not always being implemented but rather a less expensive all in one on board solution which often causes more heat and premature failure. Add the fact that these were designed for European 220v power where the amp load on the components is literally half of what it would be in a 120v application and you have a bad situation more prone to failure in our country.
from a manufacturing standpoint the GF likely costs less than $50 per unit to manufacture.. without better competition they can do this without worry, they are banking on the fact that many of the people that buy these dont stay in the hobby long term or will upgrade and will sell these off to others before failures occur. more than half of the people that dabble in homebrewing fall into this category.

Yep, two manu's of compressors, Korean and Japan. LG, GE Junk. Just as you mentioned Max profit. Order a 1.00 breakfast you get 10. cents worth of food. Hence kickin it old school, in a pot.

 

[Spartan1979]

I don't have a calendar for five years in advance.

You don't use the calendar on your phone?

 

[Bubbles2]

You don't use the calendar on your phone?

I don't have a phone.

 

[cfhorn]

That’s what looked like the problem to me too but if their sending a new controller too then hey that’s cool. But I think I am goin to try that if I’m still holding onto the old boiler.

As an electrical engineer, I can tell you that a current surge is due to a DECREASE in resistance (Current=Volts / Ohms)or a partial short to ground (a couple of strands will do that). I had issues with Grainfather and proved that my heating element resistance was too high so it would not boil water. after a month or so with electrical tests back and forth, an entirely new unit showed up on my doorstep. I had already purchased a Hot Stick and solved the slow heating issue but they do have good customer service once you get their attention. Any wiring you replace to a heating unit needs to be rated HTML (high temperature motor lead) for this application. Cheers

 

[bleme]

they do have good customer service once you get their attention.

I have a friend who is currently on his 4th Grainfather. They keep breaking, but they keep sending him a new one...

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a friend who is currently on his 4th Grainfather. They keep breaking, but they keep sending him a new one...

Likely because they were designed to run on 220v New Zealand, /Australian power and all the components like wiring and solder joints/traces would only see half the current load that way. When you run them on 120v it doubles the amount of amps being pulled through everything to put out the same power and its unlikely they changed much besides the actual elements to account for this. I believe thats why all of these hot water urn based setups that were designed in Australia or NZ have this same high failure rate.

 

[Jag75]

I have a friend who is currently on his 4th Grainfather. They keep breaking, but they keep sending him a new one...

Maybe it's the brewing gods sending him a message lol. Knock on wood , I haven't had any issues with mine .

 

[Jag75]

Likely because they were designed to run on 220v New Zealand, /Australian power and all the components like wiring and solder joints/traces would only see half the current load that way. When you run them on 120v it doubles the amount of amps being pulled through everything to put out the same power and its unlikely they changed much besides the actual elements to account for this. I believe thats why all of these hot water urn based setups that were designed in Australia or NZ have this same high failure rate.

Do they not design the ones for the US for 120? That seems odd to me . I dont know crap about electric work

 

[kh54s10]

All the above is why I bypassed any of the coffee urn type systems and got a Unibrau. There are no sealed in parts. The most complicated part is the controller and it is not integrated into the bottom of the pot. If it fails, it is the most expensive part, (other than the SS pot and basket -those shouldn't break) but still easily replaced for less than $150 USD. Cost is a little more but, IMO, well worth it.

 

[augiedoggy]

Do they not design the ones for the US for 120? That seems odd to me . I dont know crap about electric work

no since much of the components are repurposed or will run on multiple voltages they usually just design the controllers and such to run on either or change a few components such as the heating elements and call it a day... this is also the exact same reason for the high failure rates on the ebay SCR controllers that people sometimes use here. 3500w one 240 volts requires a 15 amp circuit and 14awg wiring (12awg would be best).... 3500w powered by 120v requires 30 amps and 10awg wiring ... the issue is all the things on the electrical board like the solder traces that carry the voltage and amp load are being pushed literally twice as hard on 120v and stressed with resistance which causes them to heat up and fail over time. it really is a fire hazard and im surprised they havent fixed it by now if this is in fact whats happening but it makes total sense and explains all the different versions since they started selling in the states.

 

[speavler]

*shrugs* 80 brews and counting, and other than the lousy app update, no real complaints.

 

[augiedoggy]

*shrugs* 80 brews and counting, and other than the lousy app update, no real complaints.

That encouraging news.. It would help to know if you are in canada or the United states running it on 120v or somewhere else running 220 though for discussions sake.. maybe it states that info somewhere I. Not seeing from my mobile browser IDK.

 

[skleice]

*shrugs* 80 brews and counting, and other than the lousy app update, no real complaints.

Same here. US 120v

 

[eimar]

I asked GF why the 220 Volt model is not available in the US and Canada, here is the reply:
Hi Jacques,

Thanks for your enquiry.

We when bought out the Grainfather in the US/Canada, we were aware that all households had 110v and some had both the 110v and 220v. Our developers decided it was better to bring out the 110v only in that market so that it was accessible for everyone.

Our product development team is continuously evaluating feedback and suggestions on product improvements. And while we don't currently have the 220V unit available in the US/Canada, we are evaluating this capability within our wider product development portfolio and it could be something that is released in the future.

Please sign up to our newsletter to be sure you get all our announcements on this.

Thanks,

 

[augiedoggy]

I asked GF why the 220 Volt model is not available in the US and Canada, here is the reply:
Hi Jacques,

Thanks for your enquiry.

We when bought out the Grainfather in the US/Canada, we were aware that all households had 110v and some had both the 110v and 220v. Our developers decided it was better to bring out the 110v only in that market so that it was accessible for everyone.

Our product development team is continuously evaluating feedback and suggestions on product improvements. And while we don't currently have the 220V unit available in the US/Canada, we are evaluating this capability within our wider product development portfolio and it could be something that is released in the future.

Please sign up to our newsletter to be sure you get all our announcements on this.

Thanks,

the truth is more likely because we use 220 made of 2 120v legs... they didnt have to redesign anything to make thier single 220v/neutral powered setup work on a 120v/neutral powered line but they would if they wanted it to run on our 240v made up of 2 hot 120v legs.

 

[Willie66]

I got a Grainfather back in 2016. A little over a year after I received the unit, I noticed the unit struggling to boil the wort. I found the heating element plug slightly damaged by heat.

After a quick email to the manufacture requesting a new controllers, I received a full system. Not just the controller I requested. Even though the system was technically out of warrantee.

Before placing the new system in service, I opened up the controller to examine what was wrong with the old unit. Ones splade on the electrical receptacle was loose which caused the heat, drove up the resistances, and caused the voltage drop to the heating element.

After cleaning up the connection point damaged by heat and oxidation, I solder the connection point to a replacement electrical receptacle.

My GF has been humming along ever since. Heck, I still have the replacement system in my garage having never been plugged in.

The GF systems seem to have some quality issues that could easily be addressed with a bit more attention to the manufacturing processes. But overall, I'm really enjoy brewing with this system.

 

[Jag75]

I'm the CEO of Grainfather. I will pm you the address to send the new Grainfather you aren't in need of after all .....lol

 

[DHBS]

I’ve had my Grainfather for about 3 years and during that time I’ve been through 3 replacement controllers and 2 reset switches. And now the reset switch just keeps tripping and it’s not heating at all right. Each time I’m on the phone with Grainfather, then the seller, and back and forth. Then waiting 1-2 months for my replacement part. I replaced the switch yet again and looked underneath and saw this.View attachment 571541
Again I emailed grainfather hoping to hear something but This thing has been a giant headache.
With all this said I am looking for another option to brew on in my apartment. I have an extra keggle with a hole cut in the top and three ports drilled. I was looking at making this a boil kettle or an electric biab setup. I’m not the greatest with electricity if any of you guys have any advice or ideas that would be greatly appreaciated

I share your frustration. I have had several electrical problems with GF G30 110 v system. Overheating of the wiring, melted heat element plug and the most recent a bad element variation switch.
What I am trying to get now is a copy of the heater wiring diagram.
I also found the controller produced REVERSED POLARITY on the output circuits of both pump and the heater.
GF did replace the damaged unit and acknowledged the reversed polarity but stated it “was not a problem, but they would correct in the future. Not sure this was ever done.
If anyone has a wiring diagram, it would be appreciated.

 

[skunkape]

Bought my G30 110v used. The guy I bought it from said he had 8 brews on it. I have put 40 more on it with no issues. I always plug it directly into the outlet w/o extension cords. I have nothing else on the circuit while brewing. I do not recirculate during the boil. Not sure why anyone would, but I have seen conversations where folks say they do. I create my recipes in the app, follow the beeps during the process, integrate the info from Tilt into the app. It performs exactly as described. My only complaint is the lack of handles on the unit. I bought the rolled plates because the silicone edge rings were a PitA. Ended up using the rolled plate on the bottom and the original one on top since the gasket keeps it from lying on the grain bed. Easy to install once the basket heats up.

 

[Whisky River]

Bought my G30 110v used. The guy I bought it from said he had 8 brews on it. I have put 40 more on it with no issues. I always plug it directly into the outlet w/o extension cords. I have nothing else on the circuit while brewing. I do not recirculate during the boil. Not sure why anyone would, but I have seen conversations where folks say they do. I create my recipes in the app, follow the beeps during the process, integrate the info from Tilt into the app. It performs exactly as described. My only complaint is the lack of handles on the unit. I bought the rolled plates because the silicone edge rings were a PitA. Ended up using the rolled plate on the bottom and the original one on top since the gasket keeps it from lying on the grain bed. Easy to install once the basket heats up.

You mean more handles than this one

 

[skunkape]

You mean more handles than this one

I have used that one before when dumping trub in the toilet.