Tyranny of the "craft" beer

[Qhrumphf]

Except for patented varieties like Amarillo, Simcoe, Citra, Summit, etc. that aren't widely available for new/expanded growers...

Which, of course, are also some of the most in-demand hops (the first 3 at least).

I'm lucky enough that I'm not wild about American hops, and rarely get snubbed by the hop cost pitfall. My problem is that the beers I tend to like are often imported, and have to pay for THAT upcharge.

 

[rocketsan]

Who cares if "some" of them are that much. They can charge what they want. If you don't want to spend that much, then show them by not buying it. The point is that there are plenty of "craft" beers that are reasonably priced.

Let me check that then - up here most craft beer is priced super high. There are no value craft beers in this area...



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[jensek]

Except for patented varieties like Amarillo, Simcoe, Citra, Summit, etc. that aren't widely available for new/expanded growers...

Not really. They still have to price it to sell. If the price gets too high then brewers will change hop variety.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You're not wrong, but the OP was complaining of higher prices than that.
Before homebrewing, I was buying beer at $21 a case. But it wasn't very good beer. Now I'm ruined!

Thanks to Costco I'm still buying beer for that range. $24/case for craft bottles.

 

[rodwha]

Way down here in central Texas I can buy Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams for $14-16 for a 12 pack.

 

[wozzer]

I just won't buy other people's beer. If I can't brew better, that's me not trying hard enough.

Sure, sure Adam Smith and all that.

Who cares.

 

[JohnSand]

A good philosophy, but I look at it the other way: If I don't need to buy beer, I'm not drinking hard enough!

 

[Denny]

Is that the one they made for VIPs as special gifts? I think most expensive drinks are rarities or curiosities.

AFAIK, yes it is.

 

[Denny]

I just won't buy other people's beer. If I can't brew better, that's me not trying hard enough.

Sure, sure Adam Smith and all that.

Who cares.

Let me know when you can brew something better than Rochefort 10. I can't.

 

[shoreman]

1. It's not a "flooded market". If it was then prices wouldn't be rising.

2. If you are worried about freshness then only buy beer with bottling dates or best by dates.

3. How can something be over priced if they have customers willing to buy it at that price? Sounds like they have it priced right.

1. Something like 1200 new brewers licenses applied for last year, that not counting contract labels I think. That's a lot.

2. I'm not worried about it, the breweries need to worry about it. One bad $20 IPA and no return customer.

3. I don't think it's sustainable to ask someone to shell out $20 for overhyped beer but maybe that's me. I can grab a seriously great bottle of cotes du rhone for $8 and have been instead. I've been a craft beer fan since before the last bubble.


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[shoreman]

I picked up one of these Brett beers recently in the $18 range aged in wine barrels, etc.

Pop the cork and no pop, low carbonation, barely a head on it, etc.

$18 is a lot money for that poor of an experience - will I be back for more? No way.


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[Teromous]

I picked up one of these Brett beers recently in the $18 range aged in wine barrels, etc.

Pop the cork and no pop, low carbonation, barely a head on it, etc.

$18 is a lot money for that poor of an experience - will I be back for more? No way.


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You always run the risk that a brewery is just starting out with barrel aging, wild yeast, or bacterial inoculation. While it's not always the case, some of these breweries will still sell a beer that is messed up because they've invested so much money into it and can't afford to take the loss. I've been on the receiving end of this, and I've heard (and read) breweries announce publicly that they messed up and put it out when they knew it was bad. I guess I've been spoiled from breweries like Dogfish Head that will dump an entire batch of beer if it doesn't meet standards. I would prefer that a brewery do what they do well, and not try to follow trends. If they succeed then more power to them, but not when it means putting out bad beer.

 

[jensek]

1. Something like 1200 new brewers licenses applied for last year, that not counting contract labels I think. That's a lot.

2. I'm not worried about it, the breweries need to worry about it. One bad $20 IPA and no return customer.

3. I don't think it's sustainable to ask someone to shell out $20 for overhyped beer but maybe that's me. I can grab a seriously great bottle of cotes du rhone for $8 and have been instead. I've been a craft beer fan since before the last bubble.


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1, 1200 is a lot. But I haven't heard of many going out of business. We are just getting started in Dayton. 5 years ago there were zero local breweries. Now there are at least seven. It's great. There are 300+ million Americans. Most don't drink craft beer. The market potential is huge.

2. I think that's the right attitude.

3. If the demand is there then it is sustainable. Look at the ridiculous price folks will pay for a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle or the $80 bucks I dropped on a bottle of wine I bought for a present last year.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Let me know when you can brew something better than Rochefort 10. I can't.

Are you calling his baby ugly?!

 

[rico567]

I'm not completely sure I'm clear on the OP. While some craft beer has become stratospheric in price, I simply don't buy it. Problem solved. Resenting the brewers or the price the beer is sold for boots nothing. On sale, I can still get some very respectable craft beers for $7-8 a six. Above that, it's got to be an occasion before I buy it. I did slip a few weeks ago and bought a six of Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale.

 

[brrman]

Prices of craft beer are slowly but consistently rising all over the country. The market for craft beer is growing and is adjusting to what will be the acceptable price. With a growing popularity comes a broadening of the levels of purchase - some breweries will position themselves as premium craft and charge more, and some people will position themselves as premium craft drinkers, and will pay more... Doesn't mean the beer is better, just like in any industry there are expensive versions of the basic offering.

3 years ago a decent 6'er of craft was 8-10 bucks here in Indianapolis. Now its' 10-13 bucks, and now the introduction of 4 packs are more common (for 10+ bucks). It'll stabilize when people refuse to pay, but that's a ways off because the growth is staggering right now.

 

[JoeHoffman]

I get a feeling of almost pity for the poor fools who buy it and the brewers who make the craft brewing equivalent of metrosexual emo kids found in the latest chilli pepper vanilla extract double sour oak aged bs you see on the shelves these days. Don't dismay, there is a reason why the great breweries of the world have been around for so long. Fads come and go and the best beer in the world is the one in your hand.

 

[troy2000]

1. It's not a "flooded market". If it was then prices wouldn't be rising.
2. If you are worried about freshness then only buy beer with bottling dates or best by dates.
3. How can something be over priced if they have customers willing to buy it at that price? Sounds like they have it priced right.

I think he was listing likely problems as the craft beer movement expands, rather than problems that are killing it already. And I agree with him; those are issues that will have to be dealt with along the way.

Another issue we're already seeing is large commercial brewers trying to regain market share with products that mimic craft beer in packaging, marketing and (hopefully) taste. For beer as a whole, I think that's a good thing; it's about time they upped their game past pumping out their standard lagers and lites... but it's going to make survival that much harder for craft start-ups.

 

[rico567]

I reject "all beers are the same" arguments, which at bottom are like those stated by "brrman," no matter how they're dressed up. Until I was in my 50's, I drank the same lagers 90+ percent of American beer drinkers still drink. Then I was gradually introduced to the likes of Guinness, Killian's, Sam Adams, etc. Then I discovered the whole world of craft beer, and began to homebrew. Today, if I buy a craft beer it's going to be Founders, Two Brothers, Dogfish Head, Stone, or the like. If I still liked Leinenkugel's, I'd be drinking it, because it's a whole lot cheaper. I don't. Because it's not as good*.

*I will be the first to admit that as one pursues the craft beer products "upwards," there is most certainly a law of diminishing returns. But on the other hand to argue, basically, that the craft beer market is characterized by the same dead uniformity of BMC beers, only on a smaller scale, is just fatuous.

 

[CKing]

Really dived into the craft beer back in 2005 where you could go to the local grocer and get 3-sixers of quality beer for $20.
Now it's hard to find anything decent under the $10 mark for a 4 or 6 pack.
I understand costs rise over time so I don't expect craft beer prices to stay stagnant, but the increases are substantial.

I can live with the pricing, but what I've really noticed lately is that aside from the influx of "experimental" and "imperializing" of styles, everything else seems to be 75% IPA, IIPA, IIIPA these days.
Great for all the hop heads, but I'm a malt driven imbiber.

This is why I brew everyday drinking beers and buy the good stuff that catches my eye.

 

[bobeer]

The cost of beer just drives me to brew more of my own. All my friends have cellars of store bought beer and they're in complete awe of some of them, which is fine, we all have our favorites. I just can't imagine spending that much money on store bought beer. I'm all for cellaring and having a wide selection to choose from but, personally, I'm unwilling to spend the money on all that beer when I can make a lot of it myself. I'd rather spend that money on my brewery and my dispensing setup. I try to get some of these guys over on my brew days to sample some of my cellar and what I have on tap and they just aren't interested. It's funny because they pride themselves on getting the freshest IPA's, the aged strongs/barley wines, and the new releases, even though I have a double IPA on draft that's 14 days old and stuff that's been aging in my basement for years. I don't have to go anywhere or put in any more effort than brewing it to get good fresh/seasonal beer! People just like going out, perusing the shelves, and drinking what's new or in season, and they don't mind paying for the experience, which I totally understand; it's fun to do with people you enjoy. Now you can even "check in" the beer you're drinking on untappd and let everyone see what you have. Don't get me wrong, I have my favorite go-to's just like everyone but I'd rather brew/drink my own any day of the week. It's more fun for me.
I can go to the store when I'm short on homebrew and look at the shelves for 30+ minutes just looking at everything they have to buy. I've actually left and said screw it because I couldn't make up my mind! Either I was bored with everything or they didn't really have what I was wanting. My wife recently got me a subscription to the beer of the month club in which they send you a 12 pack a month filled with random beers from all over. I've yet to get my first one but I like the idea because I don't have to think about what I'm going to buy and I might discover something new I never would have bought. Craft beer has defiantly become a fad, hence the beer of the month club and phone apps about drinking beer, and I think that's a good thing but we'll see if the bubble ever bursts. My guess is it wont because people like buying local goods, people like the way a new beer/favorite beer makes them feel, and beer people love to talk about, and experience, beer.
Now I want a beer... cheers!

 

[evrose]

I was at a whole foods grocery store today

There's your problem right there.

You're shopping at the most overpriced store in the history of food.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Are you talking $3 22's? There are plenty of $8 6packs at whole foods and you can grab singles off a 6er. A single off an $8 6pack would probably be $2. I think you're way off on the prices you mentioned.

The McDonalds in Beverly Hills charges $12 for a cheeseburger. Maybe he is at the Wholefoods in Beverly Hills.

 

[wozzer]

Let me know when you can brew something better than Rochefort 10. I can't.

Honestly can't say than I can. I've never heard of it.

When I started brewing, I aimed to get to the point where I would prefer my own to any of the commercial brews out there. For the first two years, I kept stopping in on local bars to taste their offerings. Being a Kiwi, that meant reminding myself what Boundary Road, Tuatara, Emersons and Moa tasted like. And yes, they were consistently better than what I was brewing.

I say consistently, because occasionally I'd brew something sensational - and then it was back to holding my nose.

Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.

 

[Calichusetts]

Honestly can't say than I can. I've never heard of it.

When I started brewing, I aimed to get to the point where I would prefer my own to any of the commercial brews out there. For the first two years, I kept stopping in on local bars to taste their offerings. Being a Kiwi, that meant reminding myself what Boundary Road, Tuatara, Emersons and Moa tasted like. And yes, they were consistently better than what I was brewing.

I say consistently, because occasionally I'd brew something sensational - and then it was back to holding my nose.

Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.

How are you defining "better?" Do you win a lot of awards, or just enjoy your own homebrew?

Your telling me you can CONSISTENTLY brew better beer than several major breweries? If so, contact them, send them some of your beer, and see if they will higher you as a consultant so they can brew as good as you.

 

[moti_mo]

Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.

What "problems" are you talking about that professional brewers have? Most professional breweries can take advantage of scale, professional lab equipment and analysis, highly regulated temperature control and oxygenation levels, and many other advantages that most (but not all) homebrewers simply don't have. I'm not seeing what the big "problems" are that professional brewers have that make them so easy to surpass.

 

[JohnSand]

I don't challenge Wozzer's statement. Maybe he makes world class beer, that's great. My own brew has improved to the point where it is consistently very good. I aspire to make better beer than many craft brews.

 

[Denny]

It is of course dependent on what commercial beer you can get or want to buy. This is demonstrated by wozzer saying that he's never even heard of Rochefort 10, one of the world's greatest beers. If your world is limited, it's much easier for you to exceed those limits. Around here, we have such a wealth of incredible commercial beer that it's easy to always find something better than I can brew. Not all of them, of course, but there's a lot of high quality, extremely fresh beer being produced within 100 miles of me.

 

[Qhrumphf]

In defence of wozzer, pros have one factor that we don't- profitability. With access to the same equipment, the ability to cost a bit more to improve, for example not having to rush something to market that isn't ready simply because you need the tank for something else, would always give a potential edge to the homebrewer. However that assumes you have the space and funds for the same gear.

That said, I brew what I think is consistently good beer. Some are better than others. But there's plenty of pros who do it better than I do. And some pros who do it worse.

 

[Roughster]

I just wish we move more quickly out of the IPA is then end all be all of beers phase the industry is in right now. Don't get me wrong, I love IPAs, Double IPAs, etc but people are bit too fixated on them right now. I brew IPAs on occasion, but love to mix it up with different styles from fruity, sweet, to dark and heavy, and yes, even hoppy. Ughh I just tore off the page on my Beer Calendar and guess what style is today's feature? Yup...