Tyranny of the "craft" beer

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I picked up one of these Brett beers recently in the $18 range aged in wine barrels, etc.

Pop the cork and no pop, low carbonation, barely a head on it, etc.

$18 is a lot money for that poor of an experience - will I be back for more? No way.


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I picked up one of these Brett beers recently in the $18 range aged in wine barrels, etc.

Pop the cork and no pop, low carbonation, barely a head on it, etc.

$18 is a lot money for that poor of an experience - will I be back for more? No way.


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You always run the risk that a brewery is just starting out with barrel aging, wild yeast, or bacterial inoculation. While it's not always the case, some of these breweries will still sell a beer that is messed up because they've invested so much money into it and can't afford to take the loss. I've been on the receiving end of this, and I've heard (and read) breweries announce publicly that they messed up and put it out when they knew it was bad. I guess I've been spoiled from breweries like Dogfish Head that will dump an entire batch of beer if it doesn't meet standards. I would prefer that a brewery do what they do well, and not try to follow trends. If they succeed then more power to them, but not when it means putting out bad beer.
 
1. Something like 1200 new brewers licenses applied for last year, that not counting contract labels I think. That's a lot.

2. I'm not worried about it, the breweries need to worry about it. One bad $20 IPA and no return customer.

3. I don't think it's sustainable to ask someone to shell out $20 for overhyped beer but maybe that's me. I can grab a seriously great bottle of cotes du rhone for $8 and have been instead. I've been a craft beer fan since before the last bubble.


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1, 1200 is a lot. But I haven't heard of many going out of business. We are just getting started in Dayton. 5 years ago there were zero local breweries. Now there are at least seven. It's great. There are 300+ million Americans. Most don't drink craft beer. The market potential is huge.

2. I think that's the right attitude.

3. If the demand is there then it is sustainable. Look at the ridiculous price folks will pay for a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle or the $80 bucks I dropped on a bottle of wine I bought for a present last year.
 
I'm not completely sure I'm clear on the OP. While some craft beer has become stratospheric in price, I simply don't buy it. Problem solved. Resenting the brewers or the price the beer is sold for boots nothing. On sale, I can still get some very respectable craft beers for $7-8 a six. Above that, it's got to be an occasion before I buy it. I did slip a few weeks ago and bought a six of Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale.
 
Prices of craft beer are slowly but consistently rising all over the country. The market for craft beer is growing and is adjusting to what will be the acceptable price. With a growing popularity comes a broadening of the levels of purchase - some breweries will position themselves as premium craft and charge more, and some people will position themselves as premium craft drinkers, and will pay more... Doesn't mean the beer is better, just like in any industry there are expensive versions of the basic offering.

3 years ago a decent 6'er of craft was 8-10 bucks here in Indianapolis. Now its' 10-13 bucks, and now the introduction of 4 packs are more common (for 10+ bucks). It'll stabilize when people refuse to pay, but that's a ways off because the growth is staggering right now.
 
I get a feeling of almost pity for the poor fools who buy it and the brewers who make the craft brewing equivalent of metrosexual emo kids found in the latest chilli pepper vanilla extract double sour oak aged bs you see on the shelves these days. Don't dismay, there is a reason why the great breweries of the world have been around for so long. Fads come and go and the best beer in the world is the one in your hand.
 
1. It's not a "flooded market". If it was then prices wouldn't be rising.
2. If you are worried about freshness then only buy beer with bottling dates or best by dates.
3. How can something be over priced if they have customers willing to buy it at that price? Sounds like they have it priced right.

I think he was listing likely problems as the craft beer movement expands, rather than problems that are killing it already. And I agree with him; those are issues that will have to be dealt with along the way.

Another issue we're already seeing is large commercial brewers trying to regain market share with products that mimic craft beer in packaging, marketing and (hopefully) taste. For beer as a whole, I think that's a good thing; it's about time they upped their game past pumping out their standard lagers and lites... but it's going to make survival that much harder for craft start-ups.
 
I reject "all beers are the same" arguments, which at bottom are like those stated by "brrman," no matter how they're dressed up. Until I was in my 50's, I drank the same lagers 90+ percent of American beer drinkers still drink. Then I was gradually introduced to the likes of Guinness, Killian's, Sam Adams, etc. Then I discovered the whole world of craft beer, and began to homebrew. Today, if I buy a craft beer it's going to be Founders, Two Brothers, Dogfish Head, Stone, or the like. If I still liked Leinenkugel's, I'd be drinking it, because it's a whole lot cheaper. I don't. Because it's not as good*.

*I will be the first to admit that as one pursues the craft beer products "upwards," there is most certainly a law of diminishing returns. But on the other hand to argue, basically, that the craft beer market is characterized by the same dead uniformity of BMC beers, only on a smaller scale, is just fatuous.
 
Really dived into the craft beer back in 2005 where you could go to the local grocer and get 3-sixers of quality beer for $20.
Now it's hard to find anything decent under the $10 mark for a 4 or 6 pack.
I understand costs rise over time so I don't expect craft beer prices to stay stagnant, but the increases are substantial.

I can live with the pricing, but what I've really noticed lately is that aside from the influx of "experimental" and "imperializing" of styles, everything else seems to be 75% IPA, IIPA, IIIPA these days.
Great for all the hop heads, but I'm a malt driven imbiber.

This is why I brew everyday drinking beers and buy the good stuff that catches my eye.
 
The cost of beer just drives me to brew more of my own. All my friends have cellars of store bought beer and they're in complete awe of some of them, which is fine, we all have our favorites. I just can't imagine spending that much money on store bought beer. I'm all for cellaring and having a wide selection to choose from but, personally, I'm unwilling to spend the money on all that beer when I can make a lot of it myself. I'd rather spend that money on my brewery and my dispensing setup. I try to get some of these guys over on my brew days to sample some of my cellar and what I have on tap and they just aren't interested. It's funny because they pride themselves on getting the freshest IPA's, the aged strongs/barley wines, and the new releases, even though I have a double IPA on draft that's 14 days old and stuff that's been aging in my basement for years. I don't have to go anywhere or put in any more effort than brewing it to get good fresh/seasonal beer! People just like going out, perusing the shelves, and drinking what's new or in season, and they don't mind paying for the experience, which I totally understand; it's fun to do with people you enjoy. Now you can even "check in" the beer you're drinking on untappd and let everyone see what you have. Don't get me wrong, I have my favorite go-to's just like everyone but I'd rather brew/drink my own any day of the week. It's more fun for me.
I can go to the store when I'm short on homebrew and look at the shelves for 30+ minutes just looking at everything they have to buy. I've actually left and said screw it because I couldn't make up my mind! Either I was bored with everything or they didn't really have what I was wanting. My wife recently got me a subscription to the beer of the month club in which they send you a 12 pack a month filled with random beers from all over. I've yet to get my first one but I like the idea because I don't have to think about what I'm going to buy and I might discover something new I never would have bought. Craft beer has defiantly become a fad, hence the beer of the month club and phone apps about drinking beer, and I think that's a good thing but we'll see if the bubble ever bursts. My guess is it wont because people like buying local goods, people like the way a new beer/favorite beer makes them feel, and beer people love to talk about, and experience, beer.
Now I want a beer... cheers!
 
Are you talking $3 22's? There are plenty of $8 6packs at whole foods and you can grab singles off a 6er. A single off an $8 6pack would probably be $2. I think you're way off on the prices you mentioned.

The McDonalds in Beverly Hills charges $12 for a cheeseburger. Maybe he is at the Wholefoods in Beverly Hills.
 
Let me know when you can brew something better than Rochefort 10. I can't.

Honestly can't say than I can. I've never heard of it.

When I started brewing, I aimed to get to the point where I would prefer my own to any of the commercial brews out there. For the first two years, I kept stopping in on local bars to taste their offerings. Being a Kiwi, that meant reminding myself what Boundary Road, Tuatara, Emersons and Moa tasted like. And yes, they were consistently better than what I was brewing.

I say consistently, because occasionally I'd brew something sensational - and then it was back to holding my nose.

Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.
 
Honestly can't say than I can. I've never heard of it.

When I started brewing, I aimed to get to the point where I would prefer my own to any of the commercial brews out there. For the first two years, I kept stopping in on local bars to taste their offerings. Being a Kiwi, that meant reminding myself what Boundary Road, Tuatara, Emersons and Moa tasted like. And yes, they were consistently better than what I was brewing.

I say consistently, because occasionally I'd brew something sensational - and then it was back to holding my nose.

Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.

How are you defining "better?" Do you win a lot of awards, or just enjoy your own homebrew?

Your telling me you can CONSISTENTLY brew better beer than several major breweries? If so, contact them, send them some of your beer, and see if they will higher you as a consultant so they can brew as good as you.
 
Not now. The stuff I brew is consistently better than anything I can buy. Sometimes that's not true, but at the end of the day, commercial brewers, no matter their style or scale, have problems I don't have, and will never have. That means once an home brewer has passed a certain level of apprenticeship, he will surpass all the others out there simply because he will never have their problems. It's as simple as that. You don't have to be a Zen brewer, owner of the one and only great brewing knowledge. You just don't need one leg tied behind your back, like the big boys. And you don't need to pay to be lamed.

What "problems" are you talking about that professional brewers have? Most professional breweries can take advantage of scale, professional lab equipment and analysis, highly regulated temperature control and oxygenation levels, and many other advantages that most (but not all) homebrewers simply don't have. I'm not seeing what the big "problems" are that professional brewers have that make them so easy to surpass.
 
I don't challenge Wozzer's statement. Maybe he makes world class beer, that's great. My own brew has improved to the point where it is consistently very good. I aspire to make better beer than many craft brews.
 
It is of course dependent on what commercial beer you can get or want to buy. This is demonstrated by wozzer saying that he's never even heard of Rochefort 10, one of the world's greatest beers. If your world is limited, it's much easier for you to exceed those limits. Around here, we have such a wealth of incredible commercial beer that it's easy to always find something better than I can brew. Not all of them, of course, but there's a lot of high quality, extremely fresh beer being produced within 100 miles of me.
 
In defence of wozzer, pros have one factor that we don't- profitability. With access to the same equipment, the ability to cost a bit more to improve, for example not having to rush something to market that isn't ready simply because you need the tank for something else, would always give a potential edge to the homebrewer. However that assumes you have the space and funds for the same gear.

That said, I brew what I think is consistently good beer. Some are better than others. But there's plenty of pros who do it better than I do. And some pros who do it worse.
 
I just wish we move more quickly out of the IPA is then end all be all of beers phase the industry is in right now. Don't get me wrong, I love IPAs, Double IPAs, etc but people are bit too fixated on them right now. I brew IPAs on occasion, but love to mix it up with different styles from fruity, sweet, to dark and heavy, and yes, even hoppy. Ughh I just tore off the page on my Beer Calendar and guess what style is today's feature? Yup...

Beer+Calendar.jpeg
 
The problem with most American IPAs is they have the shelf time of about 3-4 weeks. If you've had fresh IPAs or brewed them you can quickly identify the freshness.

With all the new brewers dumping IPA on the market without quality control it becomes problematic

If I want a hop forward beer, it's Sierra Nevada pale or seasonal. I know I can trust their QA.

I don't know maybe in a year there will be rotting double IPAs all over the shelves. I'll stick to a large producer like SN- that in lies some of the issues small producers will face coming up.


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I just wish we move more quickly out of the IPA is then end all be all of beers phase the industry is in right now. Don't get me wrong, I love IPAs, Double IPAs, etc but people are bit too fixated on them right now.

Found some data (2012) that IPA accounted for 1% of beer sales.

If you think IPA's are the end all right now, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough. :p
 
Found some data (2012) that IPA accounted for 1% of beer sales.

If you think IPA's are the end all right now, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough. :p


Yeah, but what's the percentage of IPA sales when narrowing down to the craft brew industry. Probably pretty dang high.

Having said that, I love me a good IPA.
 
Found some data (2012) that IPA accounted for 1% of beer sales.

If you think IPA's are the end all right now, I'd say you aren't looking hard enough. :p

Now if we can only get that same stat while removing all Budweiser, Miller, and Coors brewed products, I bet you would see that number skyrocket. I am not saying that it is all that is available, but it is definitely all the rage on the craft and micro brewery levels.
 
AZ, looks like we had the same thought at the same time! The article also mentions witbiers as more popular than IPAs which would lead me to believe they are considering Blue Moon and Shocktop to be "craft" beer. I think that is debatable and the 12% would go a lot higher if you removed those two products for sure. Not poo poo'ing either BM or ST, just saying they are probably closer to BMC than true craft beer. IMO of course.
 
AZ, looks like we had the same thought at the same time!

:mug:

The article also mentions witbiers as more popular than IPAs which would lead me to believe they are considering Blue Moon and Shocktop to be "craft" beer. I think that is debatable and the 12% would go a lot higher if you removed those two products for sure. Not poo poo'ing either BM or ST, just saying they are probably closer to BMC than true craft beer. IMO of course.

Yeah, that is a surprise, and has to include Blue Moon and Shocktop as craft...
 
What "problems" are you talking about that professional brewers have? Most professional breweries can take advantage of scale, professional lab equipment and analysis, highly regulated temperature control and oxygenation levels, and many other advantages that most (but not all) homebrewers simply don't have. I'm not seeing what the big "problems" are that professional brewers have that make them so easy to surpass.

I think one of their big problems is distribution. My beers stay in my hands and are handled very well. Commercial brewers lose control over their beer once it hits the distributors and I believe it suffers from it. I am fairly new, but my last two batches have been preferred to the normal craft brews I drink in those styles. I have had a few of these beers right at the brewery and at that point I would guess I would prefer those to mine. They are all still good beers, and that makes me happy.
 
Looks like IPA ~12% of craft beer sales, albeit growing in leaps in bounds...

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/newswire/2014/ipas-are-creating-a-brewhaha-in-craft-beer-sales.html


Lower than I expected, but like you and others have mentioned, what is being considered craft beer for the sake of that survey...

I will say that IPA's were pretty much still an outlier only a few years ago, especially east of the Mississippi River. I think it's the rapid growth in popularity/production that makes it seem like such a giant.
 
I'd say 10% is about right. At least that is what I see at my local shops: about 10 out of every 100 beers are IPA/IIPAs. Even that is a little on the high side. I see these "everything is IPA" comments and it leads me to believe that the craft store I go to, or Massachusetts in general, is far better off than some places in the country.
 
I'd say 10% is about right. At least that is what I see at my local shops: about 10 out of every 100 beers are IPA/IIPAs. Even that is a little on the high side. I see these "everything is IPA" comments and it leads me to believe that the craft store I go to, or Massachusetts in general, is far better off than some places in the country.

My non-scientific travel experiences show me that further west = more IPAs as a % of everything else.

But there's still a helluva a lot of variety out there for beer in America right now. Moreso than ever before.
 
:smack:
But there's still a helluva a lot of variety out there for beer in America right now. Moreso than ever before.


Truth.

And you're right about the >IPA's west of the Mississippi River. I go back East quite a bit (family) and in some ways it feels like the 80's (craft beer-wise) over there! And don't even get me started on the insane blue laws that still dictate when and where I can get my booze :smack::mad:
 
How are you defining "better?" Do you win a lot of awards, or just enjoy your own homebrew?

Your telling me you can CONSISTENTLY brew better beer than several major breweries? If so, contact them, send them some of your beer, and see if they will higher you as a consultant so they can brew as good as you.

I define "better" as the beer I would choose, given a choice.

I say I consistently brew better beer than commercial beer, because I consistently prefer it over their offerings. Obviously that might change if I were to be exposed to even greater variety than what is available locally, but there's a good range of craft beer here.

I don't say this to make bold claims about my brewing ability as opposed to everyone else in the world. I say it only because I set out to make something I preferred to bought stuff. For 3 years I couldn't, now I can. That's all.

Commercial brewers have distinct disadvantages. They do not know what I like. I do.

They need to consider shelf life, handling damage, regulations, how onsellers will respond to their incentives, what the general market is currently favoring, how bar-staff will serve, and what their shareholders will allow and shut down. That's not an exhaustive list. But they're problems I don't have. All I have to do, is please myself. That gives me an enormous advantage.

I am not saying I could go commercial and wow the world. If I tried to sell my beer to the world, I would immediately have the same problems they have, and my advantage would be lost.
 
I don't mind spending a bit on beer once in a while. If I could get Pliny I'd be willing to spend more as it's touted as one of the finest IPA's, and I cannot get it here in TX.

MoreBeer sells a kit to make it, but it's not the same thing, however close I may be able to get it. And I prefer to design my own recipes.

My beers are typically about on par with a typical commercial example. Some are stupendous and some have needed aging or got dumped. But I'd say a good 80% are very good, and it makes me happy.
 
I think one of their big problems is distribution. My beers stay in my hands and are handled very well. Commercial brewers lose control over their beer once it hits the distributors and I believe it suffers from it. I am fairly new, but my last two batches have been preferred to the normal craft brews I drink in those styles. I have had a few of these beers right at the brewery and at that point I would guess I would prefer those to mine. They are all still good beers, and that makes me happy.

There was a small brewery in my home town. It monopolised the bar scene and the beer was quite awful. A friend of mine's father worked there, and one day he took us on a tour of the brewery, and finished it off with a tasting at the little bar they had on site. This beer was splendid. It was fresh out of their tanks, where presumably it was conditioned. The difference between it and the product bought through their network was unbelievable.
 
looking back, i still stand by my OP. i guess im not being too clear on this, but im saying something like if i want to make a porter, im not gonna spend a whole bunch of money to hopburst/dryhop it. it will end up being perfectly delicious but significantly cheaper than comparable beer i'd buy at the store
 
Are people that aren't beer geeks really going to shell out 20 for a bottle? I think not.

Some of these prices people are posting are just silly. It appears people are just going to the wrong vendor...
I remember seeing negra modelo for 13 a six in a trendy Manhattan neighborhood but I then walked a few blocks and got it for 9 at my local bodega...

So glad I've moved away and moved on...
 
looking back, i still stand by my OP. i guess im not being too clear on this, but im saying something like if i want to make a porter, im not gonna spend a whole bunch of money to hopburst/dryhop it. it will end up being perfectly delicious but significantly cheaper than comparable beer i'd buy at the store


Well, you struck a note, because we're eight pages into a lively thread. Ironically, there is a concurrent thread suggesting that craft beer is under-priced.
 
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