Trust Your Airlock

[Synovia]

constant atmospheric pressure (which you failed to mention) in order to go strictly by the airlock.

Technically, you need constant atmospheric pressure for a hydrometer to read exactly accurately.

 

[sundowner]

My "rare gift" comment was based on his protocol of his "almost never" using a hydrometer.

What I actually said was:

"I'll take an OG reading, but other than that, I don't use it much anymore"

I claim no "rare gift", but I do know when most of my beers are finished. I've brewed them over and over and over again.

I also said, I would recommend new brewers use a hydrometer. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind when they make up stuff that I didn't say or mean.

Egos...ugh, who needs 'em

 

[bhatchable]

Someone has definately got a chip on their shoulder in this thread, and I don't quite get it.
...
One thing I learned when I picked this hobby up again a couple years ago, there's many different ways of achieving the same goal (beer), and there is no one specific way to do anything.
...
I think this thread belongs in Debate forum, not Brew Science..

+1
everyone has their way of doing things. some ways may not be agreeable with others, but it is their perogative to do things the way they please. This thread was misplaced from the very beginning and has only grown into now six pages of low blows and sh*tty jabs. (See thread starters "brew science" and "debate" - both quite self-explanatory) Get a motherf*cking life everyone and support your fellow brewer, even if he/she doesn't follow the same practices. grow up. I'm going to look at more brewing science now. brewing is fun.

 

[DeathBrewer]

I think you’ve misunderstood my original post. From the beginning I’ve promoted taking hydrometer readings at the appropriate time. I even said that after airlock activity and patience had run their course that a reading should be taken, but that after this another should not be necessary. I don’t see this as being "minimalist."

Perhaps I did misunderstand your original intent...as it seemed to be to create controversy. If you've reached your gravity, you shouldn't need to take another reading. If you have NOT reached your gravity, then further action may need to be taken.

We could argue about this forever. I don't have a single problem with taking a reading EVERY DAY, as long as they are using proper sanitation, purging with co2, etc. It just isn't good in general practice, much like relying on your airlock as a sole indicator of fermentation stage.

May be if the title of the thread was don’t NOT trust your airlock there wouldn’t be so many posts taking the intent wrong. That intent was to not disregard the information that your airlock has to offer. That under ideal condition an airlock trustworthy, but you have to understand it's limitations within you system. And finally that to disregard it to the point of saying it's only use is a vent is foolish.

Again, I think it's very trustworthy as a device for allowing gas to excape from your fermenter. One could also partially guage that fermentation is complete due to a lack of activity, but this is not always the case, nor is it good practice.

But yes, I do believe that someone starting the prescribed method of taking three consecutive reading after 7-10 days is excessive and unnecessary for most beers. But that's just me.

I understand the "3 consecutive days" idea, although I'm not an advocate of it. It's just showing you whether or not you have active fermentation, despite what your airlock is doing, and is an ok practice as long as you have everything sanitized.

So if your gravity is 6 points higher than expected, do you think people should just bottle? Or perhaps they should check again a few days later to see if it moved at all? Perhaps give it a taste and think about whether it is "too sweet."

So no, I don't think people should TRUST THEIR AIRLOCK. I think like any other thing, if you're unsure, you should check it with your hydrometer. Every airlock is different, every beer is different, every brewer is different.

If I'm going to preach anything here, it's going to be: HAVE SOME DAMN PATIENCE. If you're so hung up on whether your beer is done or not, wait another week.

Beer shouldn't come out of the primary in less than two weeks, anyway, unless you are purposely brewing a fast beer and know precisely what you are doing.

 

[ThickHead]

Please link to who are you quoting here. I missed something. Thanks.

I was quoting Clayton from post #26:

really i dont know what all the fuss is about i almost never use my Hydrometer...

I didn't mean to insinuate that you made this comment, and i don't think I did.

 

[DeathBrewer]

stop Trying To Dictate To People Your Way Of Doing Things. This Thread Is Officially Retarded. Get A Life

I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

 

[ThickHead]

What I actually said was:

"I'll take an OG reading, but other than that, I don't use it much anymore"

I claim no "rare gift", but I do know when most of my beers are finished. I've brewed them over and over and over again.

I also said, I would recommend new brewers use a hydrometer. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind when they make up stuff that I didn't say or mean.

Egos...ugh, who needs 'em

I quoted Clayton from post #26, not you. I am not imposing any ego. I just found it contrary to logic that one would "almost never" use a hydrometer and have a feel for when fermentation was complete. I wasn't even indicating that it couldn't be accomplished. IMHO it would be a rare gift to be able to develop a feel that allows you to quantifiably judge the completion of fermentation everytime you brewed a batch. The statement was also purely to maintain a specific side of a debate so that if others were reading they get a logical view of different practices used in the brewing process.

 

[bhatchable]

I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.

 

[bernerbrau]

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

Tense emotions and flying insults? Yeah, sounds about right.

But it's not religion or politics, it's a HYDROMETER for chrissake.

 

[ThickHead]

Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.

Hopefully this debate can be utilized to confirm best practices in the brewing process. I think the debate here has identified that value can be found from both sides of the debate, leading readers to draw a conclusion that would indicate that there is usable information that can be acquired from both airlock activity as well as hydrometer readings. And that utilizing that information together is probably the best approach to ensuring that your beer has completed fermentation.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.

Find another place to post if all you can do is hurl insults and get upset. We're supposed to help each other around here, despite how silly the thread is. If I think someone is giving bad advice, I will counter it.

I don't see how telling someone that it is a good idea to use an hydrometer is preaching specific practices and beliefs as fact. Perhaps you weren't talking about me, but perhaps you should also discuss matters instead of getting all torn up because you don't like a thread.

 

[bhatchable]

Hopefully this debate can be utilized to confirm best practices in the brewing process. I think the debate here has identified that value can be found from both sides of the debate, leading readers to draw a conclusion that would indicate that there is usable information that can be acquired from both airlock activity as well as hydrometer readings. And that utilizing that information together is probably the best approach to ensuring that your beer has completed fermentation.

I concur. but when it just gets so damn testosterone fueled and snarky from the start it is not productive. the guy that wants to use his hydrometer daily, go for it, sanitize, sanitize, sanitize. guy that wants to trust his airlock only.. great, go for it pal. but when it comes down to telling someone that there way is wrong, especially the gentleman who "uses his intuition" (who probably brews that one beer damn consistantly), then it is just ugly and needlessly personal. STFU everyone, share what you percieve to be helpful to the brewing process, and if people adopt it they will, if not, well you tried. you can't brew someones batch vicariously through this forum, so stop trying.

 

[carbon111]

I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

Nail on the head.

 

[ThickHead]

...but when it comes down to telling someone that there way is wrong, especially the gentleman who "uses his intuition" (who probably brews that one beer damn consistantly), then it is just ugly and needlessly personal. STFU everyone, share what you percieve to be helpful to the brewing process, and if people adopt it they will, if not, well you tried. you can't brew someones batch vicariously through this forum, so stop trying.

I'm certainly not calling this person wrong. But if indeed they are indicating that as a general practice one "almost never" requires the use of a hydrometer in the brewing process, it's certainly not sending the "right" message to inexperienced brewers. My comment in response to that person's statement was generally to convey that it is rare for someone to be able to apply that protocol successfully as a general best practice of one's brewing process. I think it is well established here that intuition is probably not the best method of gauging fermentation completion. Although I will concede that it is potentially possible to be successful using intuition.

 

[AJ_in_HD]

saw this title browsing "New Posts" section as I often do and didn't realize till a few pages in that this was in "Brew Science" subforum. lol. I agree that this thread really hasn't offered up much in the way of science and is more of a debate.

As a "new" brewer (~7 brews under my belt) I'll offer the n00b view I have on my brews for better or worse.

1. airlock activity - I check to make sure it's perking the next day. I don't routinely monitor the progress.
2. I take a gravity and temperature reading before pitching.
3. After 2-3 weeks I check gravity and temperature and rack to bottling bucket/keg.

During this time I've never really gone by airlock activity cuz from my understanding even if actual fermentation is done the yeast can still condition the beer and clear it up or whatever. This just makes me wonder what's the point in checking airlock when the yeast still need time to do their business? Then of course I learned that people also condition in a secondary (this also seems to be issue of debate here, I don't do secondaries cuz i'm lazy and my beers aren't very complex ) so I guess there is some reason to want to know when your beer is finished fermenting. But being a scientist myself, I've always just figured that the only real way to tell if your beer is done fermenting is if your gravity reading doesn't change over time and it's in the range that you'd expect for the yeast you used.

Honestly the only real reason I check the gravity of my beer is because I like calculating the alcohol content.

Anyway, cheers!

 

[RCCOLA]

When did all you guys put airlocks on your Mr. Beer kegs?Mine doesn't even have one.

 

[bhatchable]

When did all you guys put airlocks on your Mr. Beer kegs?Mine doesn't even have one.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

 

[Orfy]

Air lock activity is one (Sometimes unreliable way) to indicate fermentation activity....
Unless it goes with experience and some risk taking then it is not a good way to decide if fermentation is complete.

Bold capitals and name calling is one indication that a mod may delete a post.
Please refrain.

 

[Yooper]

Air lock activity is one (Sometimes unreliable way) to indicate fermentation activity....
Unless it goes with experience and some risk taking then it is not a good way to decide if fermentation is complete.

Bold capitals and name calling is one indication that a mod may delete a post.
Please refrain.

I deleted a post above with some name calling and "yelling" (bold letters).

Let me say this- we are all grown ups here. It's really immature to use words like "retarded" or "stupid" in a post. That's name calling, and won't be tolerated.

Put on your big boy pants and discuss your points without name calling.

Now, I can often tell by airlock activity what's going on in my fermenter. Since I keg most of my beers, though, I've gotten a bit lazy about checking the FG. Yesterday I kegged a beer that I knew was done- both by time and airlock activity. Taking a sample, FG was 1.021. Oops! If I was bottling, I'd worry. But since I'm not, I just shrugged and moved on. My point is that the airlock was not really helpful, and the hydrometer was. But since it really doesn't matter in that beer (projected FG was 1.017-1.018 and it's kegged so no explosions) I don't really care all that much.

What we do get around here is posts that say, "My airlock was bubbling three times a minute yesterday, but today is 1 time every five second" and "I don't see any bubbles- is my beer ruined?" and that's when I always tell new brewers to not trust their airlock and to rely on hydrometer readings.

I don't think it's either/or. Telling someone to move their beer when bubbling slows is bad advice- but telling them to take daily hydrometer readings is also bad advice.

In the words of the infamous Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[chumprock]

This thread is so much more hilarious after a few beers..

Do what you want, or don;t do anything, it's your beer after all...

 

[StoutFan]

This thread is so much more hilarious after a few beers..

Do what you want, or don;t do anything, it's your beer after all...

Word, it defiantly is.......

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Yikes, people. Forget the airlock. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. But it is fun to watch.

Just go get a carboy or Better Bottle and WATCH the fermentation. You'll know when it's done by looking at it. Now everybody make nice.

 

[HenryHill]

I put the wort in the fermenter, pitch the yeast, and watch to see that some activity has started thru the airlock after a few hours or the next day.

After a month or 6 weeks or whatever, I give it a swirl and come back two days later, get a FG reading to document the beer and find ABV, and rack it into a keg.

There are so many things that can make an airlock appear to be not active, and things that can make a finished ferment look active, by the airlock.

It means nothing either way, and only serves as a passive check valve for gas coming out and nasties to not go in.

A hydrometer or refractometer is the only way to know what the current state of the beer is.

 

[schweaty]

So what, Revvy can be a little abrasive sometimes. Its not that big of a deal, get over it. Revvy has probably helped more noob brewers than 99% of the members in this community. Although sometimes he and I have had misunderstandings and exchanged words I always remember that they are just that, words. I respect Revvy for his contribution to HBT and consider him a very valuable asset. He never claimed to be a scientist and will be the first to admit that, but what he does have is experience. And sometimes experience is worth more than knowledge.

As far as airlocks are concerned I've had krausen drop and airlock activity stop but the gravity continued to drop. Towards the latter end of fermentation you'd have to sit around the airlock and wait for spurts of gas every hour or so. A hydrometer/refractometer will tell you the gravity, gas coming from the carboy won't. There is much more to be learned from using precise instruments than there is from using a fifty cent piece of plastic.

 

[AnOldUR]

So what, Revvy can be a little abrasive sometimes. Its not that big of a deal, get over it. Revvy has probably helped more noob brewers than 99% of the members in this community.

I am totally with you on this. Revvy has gone above and beyond to help the beginners who come to this forum. All this banter aside, that's something that gets my respect. Had my share of homebrew last night and mellowed out. Hope we can all start this new day as friends.

It was a rough game, but thanks for playing.

 

[seigex]

Excessive sampling does nothing.

I have to disagree with this statement.. excessive sampling is excessive reasoning to taste excessive samples.. especially for those of us who are inherently impatient at heart...so you can't say it does *nothing*...

just a thought...

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

A hydrometer or refractometer is the only way to know what the current state of the beer is.

There is a non-zero chance that even your hydrometer/refractometer doesn't tell you what the current state of the beer is (just use your imagination...you can come up with ways it could be wrong). I admit...it's very close to zero but still non-zero.

On the other hand I think that using the airlock, along with experience and knowledge of what has already happened (like; krausen rose and fell) gives me a very, very good idea of where the beer is at in the process. There's a non-zero chance it would be wrong...but still very close to zero. I'm fine with that very small risk...it's just a tiny bit more risk than relying on a hydrometer imo. It's not like I'm waiting for the airlock to stop so I can rack it...I'm not racking it before 2 weeks no matter what. Usually the airlock has been idle for at least a week. At that point I see no reason to take a hydro sample...I'll just catch a hydro sample as I'm racking (by 'catch' I mean the sample gets collected as I'm racking so no chance of contamination). However, if the airlock was still bubbling a lot I wouldn't rack it...or take a hydro sample.

I know that in the past Revvy has claimed to have full fermentations without ANY bubbles coming from an airlock. I think that claims like that, without further clarification, can be misleading. It seems like a gross exaggeration just to try to make a point (and I totally agree that Revvy is usually one of the more helpful HBT members). If your beer fully fermented...it made CO2...a LOT of it...fact. If you had a full fermentation without airlock activity you either had a leak or you didn't use an airlock...or maybe you forgot to put water in it.

For most of it's history people made beer without hydrometers...or even thermometers. They did it by being observant. The notion that you have to be some sort of Yeast Whisperer or Beer Savant to do this is ridiculous imo.

 

[Revvy]

I know that in the past Revvy has claimed to have full fermentations without ANY bubbles coming from an airlock. I think that claims like that, without further clarification, can be misleading. It seems like a gross exaggeration just to try to make a point (and I totally agree that Revvy is usually one of the more helpful HBT members). If your beer fully fermented...it made CO2...a LOT of it...fact. If you had a full fermentation without airlock activity you either had a leak or you didn't use an airlock...or maybe you forgot to put water in it.

It was bad enough that Squirrely decided to take out whatever sh!T was going on yesterday out on me. That's why I pretty much ignored this what did he just call it, "little game", 'casue I knew I didn't do anything to warrant it.


But don't you ever ****ing call me a liar again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or accuse me of being "misleading."

If I don't see airlock bubbling I don't see airlcok bubbling, several OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID THEY DON'T OFTEN SEE AIRLOCK BUBBLING. So shove it up your ass!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't say that if it wasn't true....where the **** do you THINK I got the IDEA NOT TO TRUST THE DAMN THING ANYWAY, from my own observations.

I have 9 different fermenters, buckets, carboys, water bottles, whatever, and I have seen airlock bubling maybe half the time....

 

[chumprock]

Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water...

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It was bad enough that Squirrely decided to take out whatever sh!T was going on yesterday out on me. That's why I pretty much ignored this what did he just call it, "little game", 'casue I knew I didn't do anything to warrant it.


But don't you ever ****ing call me a liar again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I don't see airlock buubling I don't see airlcok bubbling, several OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID THEY DON'T OFTEN SEE AIRLOCK BUBBLING. So shove it up your ass!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't say that if it wasn't true....where the **** do you THINK I got the IDEA NOT TO TRUST THE DAMN THING ANYWAY, from my own observations.

Settle down Beavis.