Training Wheels Berliner - good intro to sours

[TwistedGray]

Very happy with the results. I split out the five gallons into one, one, one, and two ... in reality it's probably 0.75, 0.75, 1, and whatever the hell is left in the 5 gallon carboy.

Anyways, this is the tropical fruit version. It's about 2.5 gallons to 6lbs of fruit puree (mango, papaya, and pineapple). The papaya and pineapple come first and the mango you can get later in the backend. It's quite complex for what was such a stupidly easy brew.

The other ones are guava, guava/citra/hibiscus, and guava with sour mangoes. I haven't pulled from any of those yet to taste.

 

[TwistedGray]

For us bottle babies, any way to maintain the fruitiness without losing it in fermentation?

I often struggle with that. Here, too.

 

[AZBeer]

okay, is there a recipe for these, or what?

 

[TwistedGray]

okay, is there a recipe for these, or what?

What I've successfully, arguably successfully, done is simply add a variety of different amounts of fruit and various other adjuncts to the beer after I split into single gallons.

I would recommend you hop on to THE HOMEBREW TRADES (see signature) to try. WINK WINK!!!!

 

[AZBeer]

hehe..sorry, I opened this thread and it took me to the last page with 3 posts...didn't realize there was 3 pages before that.

 

[TwistedGray]

hehe..sorry, I opened this thread and it took me to the last page with 3 posts...didn't realize there was 3 pages before that.

No excuse for not signing up!

 

[KyleF318is]

Great thread! First time long time here...

Has anyone done this recipe on a Grainfather? Suggestions? Feel like with the temp controller it’d be easy but limiting Oxygen is going to be the tricky part. Thanks! Great references!

 

[treacheroustexan]

Great thread! First time long time here...

Has anyone done this recipe on a Grainfather? Suggestions? Feel like with the temp controller it’d be easy but limiting Oxygen is going to be the tricky part. Thanks! Great references!

I have. I pitched the omega directly in the Grainfather, covered the wort with saran wrap and then put the lid on. Came back a few days later and removed the wrap and boiled. Came out excellent.

 

[acarter5251]

I'm going to be giving this a shot this weekend, then fruiting it with some Goya frozen guanabana pulp

 

[TwistedGray]

I'm going to be giving this a shot this weekend, then fruiting it with some Goya frozen guanabana pulp

Sounds tasty

 

[cupofjoakim]

Just ordered all the ingredients I needed for this. Just a couple of questions:

1. I don't have access to any fancy fermentation chambers and I can't controll the ambient temperature well. Will a stable 22c (71.6f) be ok for the secondary fermentation? I'll do the initial souring in my kettle which can hold anywhere between 70 and 90 pretty well.
2. I'm splitting my brew into two and will be adding raspberrys to one half. What kind of preparation should be done to the berries? Should I boil them, making them into some kind of goop?
3. When adding the berries to the fermentation, when should I do it? When starting the secondary or later?

 

[TwistedGray]

1. Yes, 70 degrees +/- is fine for fermentation.

2. Freeze, thaw, and toss. I don't boil any of my fruit, and knock on wood I haven't had an infection. Store bought or homegrown?

3. After fermentation is complete, add, but know that it'll ferment again from the sugar in the berries.

 

[cupofjoakim]

1. Yes, 70 degrees +/- is fine for fermentation.

2. Freeze, thaw, and toss. I don't boil any of my fruit, and knock on wood I haven't had an infection. Store bought or homegrown?

3. After fermentation is complete, add, but know that it'll ferment again from the sugar in the berries.

Cool, thanks! It's not really season here in Sweden and fresh berries are kind of bad quality this time of year (shipped really far and sprayed with loads of insect killing stuff) so I'll just buy it frozen.

I guess i'll just try it out. Regardless, this is probably one of my cheapest brews yet due to the use of DME and no hops.

 

[TwistedGray]

You can use hops in secondary for a hoppy sour, I suppose. Usually sours have very low IBUs though

 

[KyleF318is]

Anyone want the ease my concern about pitching OYL-605 without a starter? Thought I read on here that it will be all good but having second thoughts.

Got it wrapped up and purged with CO2.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Anyone want the ease my concern about pitching OYL-605 without a starter? Thought I read on here that it will be all good but having second thoughts.

Got it wrapped up and purged with CO2.

Sure, I didn't use a starter when I brewed this a few months ago and it turned out incredible! Just pitched straight from the pack. No need to worry!

 

[KyleF318is]

Sure, I didn't use a starter when I brewed this a few months ago and it turned out incredible! Just pitched straight from the pack. No need to worry!

90 Degrees good ferment temp?

 

[treacheroustexan]

90 Degrees good ferment temp?

Should be perfect. I pitched at 90 and just let it sit there/fall down cooler over the next 30 hours or so. It was the perfect amount of sour for me.

 

[TwistedGray]

Souring temp or fermenting temp; they are not exclusive.

 

[KyleF318is]

Souring temp or fermenting temp; they are not exclusive.

Souring Temp. Been keeping it at 90. Saran Wrap the top of the wort. Co2 purged the head space and then wrapped the lid and eye hole cover (Grainfather) with saranwrap again. Felt like overkill but didn’t take very long.

Anyway. Pitched straight packet of the OYL. First souring I’ve ever done, does this picture look about right or did something bad happen? Haven’t opened it to try it. Only been going for 24hrs.

 

[TwistedGray]

Congrats for the most obscure picture ever, lol. As long as you have no airspace you're fine.

 

[KyleF318is]

Congrats for the most obscure picture ever, lol. As long as you have no airspace you're fine.

Haha think I missed my calling in photography. I call it “Saranwrap on Saranwrap White Pillowey Dream”. Thanks! Also, this was an all grain batch. Think boiling is necessary? If so how long? Seems like people are split here. Some do 180 and some boil.

 

[RevKev]

Hell I'm doing this, just with Wyeast 5335 though because it got bundled into another order. It's too easy not to try it with the new kettle!

 

[TwistedGray]

Haha think I missed my calling in photography. I call it “Saranwrap on Saranwrap White Pillowey Dream”. Thanks! Also, this was an all grain batch. Think boiling is necessary? If so how long? Seems like people are split here. Some do 180 and some boil.

You need to to kill the bacteria.

 

[TwistedGray]

Hell I'm doing this, just with Wyeast 5335 though because it got bundled into another order. It's too easy not to try it with the new kettle!

Stupid simple

 

[cupofjoakim]

We'll have to see how this turns out, screwed up several steps here. Good news is that I seem to have a very healthy fermentation going in both vessels. Split half and half, one half racked over raspberries and the other over rhubarb. Hoping rhubarb won't be too much, but I guess I'll know in a few weeks. Amounts used was 1 kg plant/berry to 10 liters of wort.

 

[cpham574]

Haha think I missed my calling in photography. I call it “Saranwrap on Saranwrap White Pillowey Dream”. Thanks! Also, this was an all grain batch. Think boiling is necessary? If so how long? Seems like people are split here. Some do 180 and some boil.

I would eventually like to attempt this recipe with my grainfather as well. I don’t know much about sours, but I understand the need to boil to kill the bugs. However, wouldn’t people be afraid of any bugs surviving? Like in the pump or pump lines? Or should you run the boiling wort through the pump?

Also, what ratio of grains did you use?

 

[TwistedGray]

I would eventually like to attempt this recipe with my grainfather as well. I don’t know much about sours, but I understand the need to boil to kill the bugs. However, wouldn’t people be afraid of any bugs surviving? Like in the pump or pump lines? Or should you run the boiling wort through the pump?

Also, what ratio of grains did you use?

This thread is all about simplicity, so no grains were used. It's all dry malt extract (DME) which is why it's so simple

As far as your other question...I don't know, sorry.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I would eventually like to attempt this recipe with my grainfather as well. I don’t know much about sours, but I understand the need to boil to kill the bugs. However, wouldn’t people be afraid of any bugs surviving? Like in the pump or pump lines? Or should you run the boiling wort through the pump?

For the grainfather, no to the bugs surviving. Either recirculate when you bring it up to temperature when you kill off the lacto if you're worried or worst case scenario, next time you brew you have to run boiling wort through to sanitize the chiller anyways so anything would be killed then if anything was in the pump.

 

[KyleF318is]

I would eventually like to attempt this recipe with my grainfather as well. I don’t know much about sours, but I understand the need to boil to kill the bugs. However, wouldn’t people be afraid of any bugs surviving? Like in the pump or pump lines? Or should you run the boiling wort through the pump?

Also, what ratio of grains did you use?

I’m in no way an expert and probably asked and researched every question. With that said...

I did a normal mash 4.5# Pils and 3# Whitewheat (out of German wheat)

Mashed out

Sparged

Dropped to 95

Pitched OYL

Saran Wrap top of wort, Satan wrap around the lid, then stuck co2 hose down hole in lid for about 30secs. Then Saran wrapped hole in lid

I left it 3 days (longer than some but schedule had me)

Opened it yesterday and it was a punch in the face. Funky horse blanket and Parmesan cheese-ish. (This may all be bad....I don’t know)

Boiled for 30 with recirculating to kill all bugs in pump.

Chilled then pitched sacc

Took Grainfather filled to top with hot water collected with recirculating. PBW and Starsan for 1hr on 150 degrees recirculating. Then scrubbed with brush and then starsan spray bottles it. Excessive I feel but I can sleep at night.

That’s me...I might have a dumper on my hands. But, that was my practice.

 

[cpham574]

This thread is all about simplicity, so no grains were used. It's all dry malt extract (DME) which is why it's so simple

As far as your other question...I don't know, sorry.

Understood. Cheers!

For the grainfather, no to the bugs surviving. Either recirculate when you bring it up to temperature when you kill off the lacto if you're worried or worst case scenario, next time you brew you have to run boiling wort through to sanitize the chiller anyways so anything would be killed then if anything was in the pump.

Good point. I'll recirc for sure. I actually don't use the CFC anymore. South Florida water just isn't cold enough for it to be effective.

I’m in no way an expert and probably asked and researched every question. With that said...

I did a normal mash 4.5# Pils and 3# Whitewheat (out of German wheat)

Mashed out

Sparged

Dropped to 95

Pitched OYL

Saran Wrap top of wort, Satan wrap around the lid, then stuck co2 hose down hole in lid for about 30secs. Then Saran wrapped hole in lid

I left it 3 days (longer than some but schedule had me)

Opened it yesterday and it was a punch in the face. Funky horse blanket and Parmesan cheese-ish. (This may all be bad....I don’t know)

Boiled for 30 with recirculating to kill all bugs in pump.

Chilled then pitched sacc

Took Grainfather filled to top with hot water collected with recirculating. PBW and Starsan for 1hr on 150 degrees recirculating. Then scrubbed with brush and then starsan spray bottles it. Excessive I feel but I can sleep at night.

That’s me...I might have a dumper on my hands. But, that was my practice. View attachment 570578

I'm interested to hear how your batch turns out. Hopefully you don't have to dump it! Did you sanitize the saran wrap before placing it ontop of the wort? At first I had no idea what was going on in the picture you posted earlier but now it makes sense lol

 

[KyleF318is]

Understood. Cheers!



Good point. I'll recirc for sure. I actually don't use the CFC anymore. South Florida water just isn't cold enough for it to be effective.



I'm interested to hear how your batch turns out. Hopefully you don't have to dump it! Did you sanitize the saran wrap before placing it ontop of the wort? At first I had no idea what was going on in the picture you posted earlier but now it makes sense lol

The more I’m reading the more I’m learning that this smell preboil is a dead give away for Isovaleric Acid. Which can be cleaned with Brett but not sure I want to mess with losing a fermenter. I did starsan the Saran Wrap. Yeah that first pic is a little absurd but I was interested in the white pillowy top of the lacto fermentation. Haha. Good luck! Post results!

 

[Ray_Finkle]

Going to try making the recipe this weekend. Will be my first attempt at a sour.

 

[jmgreen7]

All...

First, thanks for this thread. This is exactly what i needed to get me moving on souring, which to be honest, i've been scared of. Having said that, here are some followup questions/comments:
1) Any good advice on taking pH? My plan is to keep the souring in the kettle and throw it in my makeshift fermentation chamber, but once i put the saranwrap over it, i don't really want to expose it air again, nor do i want to purge b/c i don't want to spread bugs.

2) Previously, someone had mentioned to cover the starter with foil. Is that a tight seal with rubber band, crumpled around the sides so air can escape, or is it just loosely covered (i know others just pitch directly)

3) There's been a couple different yeasts thrown around. What have people had the most success with? I would love to make a watermelon sour or gose, and either a tropical fruit or raspberry.

4) what do you all think the shelf life for this is? If i'm trying to prep for a trip in august will this maintain? I'm well aware that if it comes out as good as you all have indicated, i'll probably drink it all long before that.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

So last summer I never got to my best laid plans on remaking this, but I'm back in action now and I'm planning on several batches since the house fridge is about to be retired to kegerator duty, I don't have much of a pipeline established, and summer is coming!

Built my starter on Sunday, and used my heat stick tonight to brew up 6 gallons of wort by heating up 4 gallons of water in a keg, adding DME, chilling, splitting to a second keg via closed vessel transfer into purged, and then adding the last two gallons of water that had been chilling in the freezer. Hindsight (i.e. sitting there waiting for it to chill) tells me I should have heated less water, since I'm using store bought gallons of water. Pitched the starter, purged the keg headspace with CO2, and set the BrewPi for 75F and programmed it to raise to 80F tomorrow AM - planning to pasteurize Friday night.

Rebuilt the starter and will do this again Thursday or Friday night with an updated plan to save time and brew 8 gallons: Heat 1-2 gallons of water in a keg with the heatstick (whatever it takes to completely cover the element even though it can supposedly be run dry), add DME, use remaining water to chill - transfer to second keg via closed vessel transfer.

I can just hear it now - "you're making more beer?!??"

 

[RevKev]

Let's see how 5335 turns out after a 1L starter for two days.. May have added an extra pound or so of dme due to miscounting.. Yeah we will call it that.

 

[Calaeb]

Let's see how 5335 turns out after a 1L starter for two days.. May have added an extra pound or so of dme due to miscounting.. Yeah we will call it that. View attachment 572740View attachment 572741

Just gonna leave it at room temp? Im really thinking about doing this soon.

 

[RevKev]

Just gonna leave it at room temp? Im really thinking about doing this soon.

Yeah.. Someone above used omega at room temp after pitching about 100°+ so I said F it I'll try and ik 5335 is suggested to incubate at 90° for 5 days but my starter was going strongly so I think I'll be okay. I shouldn't have started this so late but I did lower the pH slightly already to give it a fighting chance. I'm going to boil this Friday night so I'll let you know.

I'll likely use omega next time need to find a place online that sells them.

 

[TwistedGray]

I'll likely use omega next time need to find a place online that sells them.

Most of the big box places have the 605

 

[Calaeb]

Yeah.. Someone above used omega at room temp after pitching about 100°+ so I said F it I'll try and ik 5335 is suggested to incubate at 90° for 5 days but my starter was going strongly so I think I'll be okay. I shouldn't have started this so late but I did lower the pH slightly already to give it a fighting chance. I'm going to boil this Friday night so I'll let you know.

I'll likely use omega next time need to find a place online that sells them.

Ritebrew is where I got mine. I still need to figure out my condo setup so I can chill on the patio without a outside water hookup