Topping wort off.

[Aarong2008]

Hello, I'm just getting back into brewing again. Its very difficult with 3 kids and a wife ha. I generally brew 1 gallon all grain or extract batches. Today was a 1 gallon biab. I used 2 lbs of pilsner and ariana hops.i used distilled water and purchased my brewing water minerals from Waters Brewer on Instagram. Beer Smith calculated 1.67 qts of strike water. I held my 156 mash for 60 min and did a 10 min mash out at 168 before I began my 90 boil and my hop additions.

I use a 5 gallon pot that I mash and boil in. I never wrote down my pre boil gravity but my final gravity was 1.087 and I had roughly only .5 gallons of wort when I was finished boiling. I cooled that down and aerated and topped it off with distilled water up to 1 gallon and ended up with a 1.056 sg.

I think I may have had too vigorous of a boil and i didn't factor in my 90 min boil. I also need to tweak my Beer Smith profile.

My question is if I top off my wort with an all grain batch, will this cause any problems?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Not really. Just dilution.

 

[LittleRiver]

...a 1 gallon biab... 90[min] boil... gravity was 1.087...topped it off with distilled water up to 1 gallon and ended up with a 1.056 sg...will this cause any problems?

In general, topping off isn't going to cause problems. In this case it was the right thing to do.

A refractometer is a great thing to have. With just a couple drops of wort you can see where you are, giving you the opportunity to stop the boil when you reach your target gravity.

Is there a reason you wanted to boil for 90 minutes? 60 minutes would have gotten you much closer to your target.

 

[Aarong2008]

Ill have to pick up a refractomer. The gentleman at the LHBS said when making pilsner to boil for 90 min because of DMS.

In general, topping off isn't going to cause problems. In this case it was the right thing to do.

A refractometer is a great thing to have. With just a couple drops of wort you can see where you are, giving you the opportunity to stop the boil when you reach your target gravity.

Is there a reason you wanted to boil for 90 minutes? 60 minutes would have gotten you much closer to your target.

 

[Sammy86]

Ill have to pick up a refractomer. The gentleman at the LHBS said when making pilsner to boil for 90 min because of DMS.

There is a belief that if using Pilsner malt you need to boil for 90 minutes...call me a rebel but I don't boil my Pilsner or Helles which has 90% pils malt in the grist for more than 60.

Also, I know your kicking yourself already for this but gotta make sure Beersmith or whatever program you use is on point...we rely on it so much it's just a kick in the butt if we don't update or adjust it.

 

[Robert65]

There is a belief that if using Pilsner malt you need to boil for 90 minutes...

It's an absolute scientific fact that not only do you not have to boil Pilsner worts 90 minutes for DMS, you'll actually just keep digging the hole deeper and causing other damage. Common knowledge for the better part of a century, except for some damn homebrew myths. Pilsner worts should, like all worts, be subjected to as little thermal stress as possible for best flavor and stability in the beer. But that's another thread or hundred. I'd take anything else you hear from the gent at the shop with a pound of salt.

 

[Aarong2008]

Its safe to say, in your experience, boiling pilsner for 60 min has not caused any issues?

Your absolutely right about beersmith. I used a generic profile for my equipment and kind iui f just winged it. Lesson learned. I'm going to brew this exact beer again with a 60 min boil and an updated profile.

There is a belief that if using Pilsner malt you need to boil for 90 minutes...call me a rebel but I don't boil my Pilsner or Helles which has 90% pils malt in the grist for more than 60.

Also, I know your kicking yourself already for this but gotta make sure Beersmith or whatever program you use is on point...we rely on it so much it's just a kick in the butt if we don't update or adjust it.

 

[Aarong2008]

I appreciate the reply. I'm all for saving time so going forward it will be a 60 min boil.

It's an absolute scientific fact that not only do you not have to boil Pilsner worts 90 minutes for DMS, you'll actually just keep digging the hole deeper and causing other damage. Common knowledge for the better part of a century, except for some damn homebrew myths. Pilsner worts should, like all worts, be subjected to as little thermal stress as possible for best flavor and stability in the beer. But that's another thread or hundred. I'd take anything else you hear from the gent at the shop with a pound of salt.

 

[Sammy86]

Its safe to say, in your experience, boiling pilsner for 60 min has not caused any issues?

Your absolutely right about beersmith. I used a generic profile for my equipment and kind iui f just winged it. Lesson learned. I'm going to brew this exact beer again with a 60 min boil and an updated profile.

That is correct...never had an issue boiling Pilsner worts for 60 minutes.

Now, that is not to say that you can't but you'll have to adjust beersmith for the longer boil

 

[Sammy86]

It's an absolute scientific fact that not only do you not have to boil Pilsner worts 90 minutes for DMS, you'll actually just keep digging the hole deeper and causing other damage. Common knowledge for the better part of a century, except for some damn homebrew myths. Pilsner worts should, like all worts, be subjected to as little thermal stress as possible for best flavor and stability in the beer. But that's another thread or hundred. I'd take anything else you hear from the gent at the shop with a pound of salt.

I don't necessarily believe there is enough scientific data to support your point here, other than a few @Brulosopher experiments.

There are times where a Pilsner wort will need 90 minute boils depending on style however in the case of the OP I believe a 60 minute boil would have been fine.

 

[Robert65]

I don't necessarily believe there is enough scientific data to support your point here, other than a few @Brulosopher experiments.

There are times where a Pilsner wort will need 90 minute boils depending on style however in the case of the OP I believe a 60 minute boil would have been fine.

I wouldn't believe a Brulosophy experiment if my life depended on it. Trust real science. The professional literature. All of it.

You can never "boil off the DMS."

First, most of the SMM is split into DMS and eliminated in malting, even in Pilsner malt.

Then, more SMM is thermally split into DMS during the boil. SMM has essentially a "half life," so this is continually occurring at temperatures above 180°F. The simple fact is, we must boil to some extent to achieve goals such as hop utilization and protein coagulation, so we will inevitably produce some DMS, and will want to eliminate this. A very gentle simmer with enough circulation to expose all of the wort at the interface with the atmosphere is sufficient in a very short time. But the longer you boil, you'll keep generating more DMS, while doing significant damage to the wort, resulting in dull malt flavor, poor body and foam quality, compromised physical and flavor stability, etc. So we must limit boiling as far as possible.

Now, when we do end the boil, there is still significant residual SMM present, now way around it, which will continue splitting into DMS at temperatures above 180°F. So now the imperative is to rapidly chill the wort to prevent this as far as possible. So long as this is reasonably well achieved, any small amount of DMS remaining in the wort will be scrubbed out by CO2 during fermentation. Remaining unsplit SMM is completely innocuous.

So the homebrewer obsession with "boiling off DMS" is completely misdirected and misconceived. What is required with Pilsner malt is a short, gentle simmer/boil and rapid chilling.

This need for limiting thermal stress on wort applies to all styles and all malts. But it is perhaps most critical with the delicate flavor of Pilsner malt. The conventional homebrew wisdom is simply bass ackwards.

 

[Dgallo]

Listen to @Robert65 here. He is correct. A typical 60 minute boil will be plenty. Just cool fast and don’t cover when cooling. You’ll be all set

 

[Aarong2008]

I brewed this recipe again, but I only boiled for 60 min this time. I uploaded some pics of the brew day. I ended up with less than a gallon of wort after my boil, so I topped off to 1 gallon and ended up at 1.052. I'm good with that. I will get this dialed in soon enough. I have one question, I was distracted and I pitched yeast before I aerated. I use pure oxygen for 30 sec normally before I pitch yeast. Do you think this will be a problem? I searched for the web for info but couldn't find anything that said it would cause a problem. Only that most people aerate prior to pitching yeast.

 

[Aarong2008]

I brewed this recipe again, but I only boiled for 60 min this time. I uploaded some pics of the brew day. I ended up with less than a gallon of wort after my boil, so I topped off to 1 gallon and ended up at 1.052. I'm good with that. I will get this dialed in soon enough. I have one question, I was distracted and I pitched yeast before I aerated. I use pure oxygen for 30 sec normally before I pitch yeast. Do you think this will be a problem? I searched for the web for info but couldn't find anything that said it would cause a problem. Only that most people aerate prior to pitching yeast.

I have pics of preboil gravity and after boil.

 

[GPNewBrew]

I’ve topped off my full grain generated wort a few times and never had a problem, but there is one thing I want to remind you about. Based on your original gravity before you diluted your wort, it sounds like you calculated your mash based on your final volume. With your dilution (and be careful here; a little dilution goes a long way!). The only problem you could have is low hop utilization. The more concentrated your wort is, the less your hops will be utilized. Typically, your recipe’s hop quantity is based on the expected original gravity, which sounds like in your case was 1.056. At 1.087(or whatever it was), you likely didn’t get the hops impact intended for the recipe. You can do anything about it once your wort is boiled, but next time you might want add more hops. In Beersmith, if you use it, you can add the top up water you expect to add, and it will calculate the hops you need to overcome the concentrated wort

 

[PersonalBrewer]

Listen to @Robert65 here. He is correct. A typical 60 minute boil will be plenty. Just cool fast and don’t cover when cooling. You’ll be all set

Thanks to You and Robert65 for your posts. I have been routinely boiling an hour and a half, primarily because I understood it to be better beer.

I will change that to an hour boil, for the reasons mentioned both posts

I’ve topped off my full grain generated wort a few times and never had a problem

I routinely top off my grain generated wort to be able to do ten gallons in a 15 gal brew kettle, BIAB.

Basically, I just double a five gallon recipe, add a few% grains (maybe) and top off after I pull the bag.

Works for me.

 

[PersonalBrewer]

Rereading the thread

"A very gentle simmer with enough circulation to expose all of the wort at the interface with the atmosphere is sufficient in a very short time."

Does this mean that sometimes shorter than an hour is better?

I started doing a "gentle simmer" more than a year ago, understanding that was best.

Generally, I do Marzan, Dopplebock, similar styles. Would these be better with less than an hour?

 

[Dgallo]

Rereading the thread

"A very gentle simmer with enough circulation to expose all of the wort at the interface with the atmosphere is sufficient in a very short time."

Does this mean that sometimes shorter than an hour is better?

I started doing a "gentle simmer" more than a year ago, understanding that was best.

Generally, I do Marzan, Dopplebock, similar styles. Would these be better with less than an hour?

I’ve shared this video in a few threads because I thinks it’s very informative and helps us all use it as a reference to describe the vigor of our boils. It will also help you to form a constant boil off rate. I use a level 2 boil and sometimes need to go up to a level 3 near the end so that I get my volume where I want it to be. You really don’t want to be above a 3 IMHO

 

[PersonalBrewer]

Thanks Dgallo, for the link to the video. Will watch it carefully and bookmark.

 

[tennesseean_87]

One other thing to think about is mixing your diluted wort. You may get gravity readings that are incorrect if you don't mix thoroughly. I often dilute a little bit and like to take a gravity reading pre-dilution and use a calculator to calculate what my post-dilution gravity is.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

This thread just reminded me that I got a refractometer for Christmas [emoji119]