Topping off Carboy

[rancidcrabtree]

Hi all,

My first batch of cider is in the middle of fermenting right now, bubbling away every three seconds or so. It's a 5.5 gallon batch of 100% apple juice in a 6.5 gallon carboy, I'm planning on just letting it sit in there for a few months and not bothering with a secondary so as to keep my other carboy available for beer, unless an expert out there thinks it would be a good idea to do otherwise. What I'd like to do, to add a little more flavor and avoid the problem of having too much open space in the carboy after fermentation is finished, is to top it off with about a gallon of 100% cranberry juice. Would this be a bad thing to do mid fermentation or just a bad idea in general?

 

[Yooper]

Hi all,

My first batch of cider is in the middle of fermenting right now, bubbling away every three seconds or so. It's a 5.5 gallon batch of 100% apple juice in a 6.5 gallon carboy, I'm planning on just letting it sit in there for a few months and not bothering with a secondary so as to keep my other carboy available for beer, unless an expert out there thinks it would be a good idea to do otherwise. What I'd like to do, to add a little more flavor and avoid the problem of having too much open space in the carboy after fermentation is finished, is to top it off with about a gallon of 100% cranberry juice. Would this be a bad thing to do mid fermentation or just a bad idea in general?

It's not a bad idea. But it will kick off fermentation again, creating even more sediment in the carboy. What I do is rack to the correct sized container, so it's off of the sediment (lees) and top up with water, already made cider, or apple wine, etc.

 

[rancidcrabtree]

It's not a bad idea. But it will kick off fermentation again

It's in the middle of the primary fermentation right now so it would just add to it, right? My only concern is that I might retard the fermentation that is currently happening... I wish I had some already made cider to top off with but this is my first batch so I'll have to improvise. Thanks for the quick reply!

 

[Aschecte]

Hi all,

My first batch of cider is in the middle of fermenting right now, bubbling away every three seconds or so. It's a 5.5 gallon batch of 100% apple juice in a 6.5 gallon carboy, I'm planning on just letting it sit in there for a few months and not bothering with a secondary so as to keep my other carboy available for beer, unless an expert out there thinks it would be a good idea to do otherwise. What I'd like to do, to add a little more flavor and avoid the problem of having too much open space in the carboy after fermentation is finished, is to top it off with about a gallon of 100% cranberry juice. Would this be a bad thing to do mid fermentation or just a bad idea in general?

Wow we are in the same boat I'm doing 5 gal in a 6 gal carboy. I was just thinking about posting this exact question and you beat me to it !!!! so I guess the general opinion is do it now and have more sediment or rack into a smaller carboy then fill up with h20. How many days in are you? I'm 3 days in so I will probably add to the primary.

 

[HappyWino]

Wow we are in the same boat I'm doing 5 gal in a 6 gal carboy. I was just thinking about posting this exact question and you beat me to it !!!! so I guess the general opinion is do it now and have more sediment or rack into a smaller carboy then fill up with h20. How many days in are you? I'm 3 days in so I will probably add to the primary.

Personally I wouldn't even consider water, why dilute that lovely appley goodness? If you need to top off I would just suggest more of the original juice.

Cheers

HW

 

[Calder]

Original juice. It will create a little more sediment, but not much compared to what you have. I always top-off with fresh juice whenever I rack ...... makes more cider and I generally plan to leave it where it is for a while to clear any new sediment.

 

[Aschecte]

Personally I wouldn't even consider water, why dilute that lovely appley goodness? If you need to top off I would just suggest more of the original juice.

Cheers

HW

Omg I had NO intention of adding water I meant more juice not adding water ( no disrespect to yooper ) I am only 3 days into fermentation and the juice i will add will integrate into the already still fermenting juice so it will not restart fermentation.

 

[rancidcrabtree]

I started on Monday so I'm about 4 and a half days in now. I went ahead and added 1 gallon of 100% cranberry/pomegranate juice, I wanted 100% cranberry but for some reason WalMart only seems to have cranberry mixed with something, no straight cranberry. Anyways, it added some really nice color and didn't seem to hurt the fermentation process at all. I was bubbling about every 4 seconds (I know the only way to really measure fermentation is with a hydrometer, in case you're reading this Revvy), and it kept rolling at the same pace after the addition. Also it filled up some of that empty head-space since it was only a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy. I'm using Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast, it took a good 26 hours to really kick in which was a bit longer than I'm used to, this is my first Cider, I've only ever done ales before this. Let me know how it goes for you Aschecte!

 

[rancidcrabtree]

Oh yeah, I'm thinking since I used a wine yeast this will end up really dry so hopefully the added cranberry and pom flavors will add a bit to the overall flavor. Any opinions on that?

 

[Yooper]

Oh yeah, I'm thinking since I used a wine yeast this will end up really dry so hopefully the added cranberry and pom flavors will add a bit to the overall flavor. Any opinions on that?

Yes, it should finish dry, maybe even .990.

If you want to sweeten it up after fermentation is over, you can stabilize with sorbate and campden and sweeten to taste. I like my wines and ciders dry, but many people like them off-dry or even sweet.

 

[Aschecte]

I started on Monday so I'm about 4 and a half days in now. I went ahead and added 1 gallon of 100% cranberry/pomegranate juice, I wanted 100% cranberry but for some reason WalMart only seems to have cranberry mixed with something, no straight cranberry. Anyways, it added some really nice color and didn't seem to hurt the fermentation process at all. I was bubbling about every 4 seconds (I know the only way to really measure fermentation is with a hydrometer, in case you're reading this Revvy), and it kept rolling at the same pace after the addition. Also it filled up some of that empty head-space since it was only a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy. I'm using Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast, it took a good 26 hours to really kick in which was a bit longer than I'm used to, this is my first Cider, I've only ever done ales before this. Let me know how it goes for you Aschecte!

This is my first apple wine also I ran into the same questions as mine took about 24 hoiurs to really get going also. I'm used to 9 - 12 hours with ales. I also added to my carboy to bring it closer to full. I will let you know how it turns out and please let me know about yours as well.

 

[DeuxChiens]

So I did my first cider back in November 2010 and let it ferment with champagne yeast starter made with honey. After it fermented down to 1.001 I racked it over to a clean carboy and topped it up with two bottles of Clos Normand and a bottle of good chardonnay.....

Two things I should point out:
1. I'd only done about 6 extract brews at this point.
2. This is my first post.....every question I've had has been answered somewhere on this site. Cheers to all of you.

Anyway, at this point I only had a 6.5 gal carboy free, which is why I added roughly 3 liters of cider/wine to top off. Since then, I've let it sitting in my basement, covered in a black trash bag.

I tasted it last night and thought it tasted like wine. Am I just being nerotic or does it taste like wine because the chardonnay is less dense than the ciders and is sitting at the top of my carboy?

I appreciate any insights. I'd like to bottle this summer, so I thought I might be able to sweeten it up to offset that wine flavor with some lactose, but I'd rather figure out of my cider is spoiled before putting out the effort.

 

[rancidcrabtree]

This cider I started back in Feb or March (can't remember) tastes a lot like an apple/cranberry wine right now. I think it is because I used a wine yeast so it fermented very dry. I'd think with the yeast you used and the fact that it fermented down to 1.001 yours would also have a wine taste to it as well. Yesterday I racked 750ml into a wine bottle to make room for half a pound of lactose in the secondary. Be careful if you add lactose dry! It volcanoes, you have to add it very slowly!! I did not know this and ended up with at least a quart of cider on the floor in my garage. I'm hoping the lactose will sweeten it up a bit anyways, I'm not too worried about it though because I don't mind a dry drink from time to time. Good luck with yours!

 

[Aschecte]

So I did my first cider back in November 2010 and let it ferment with champagne yeast starter made with honey. After it fermented down to 1.001 I racked it over to a clean carboy and topped it up with two bottles of Clos Normand and a bottle of good chardonnay.....

Two things I should point out:
1. I'd only done about 6 extract brews at this point.
2. This is my first post.....every question I've had has been answered somewhere on this site. Cheers to all of you.

Anyway, at this point I only had a 6.5 gal carboy free, which is why I added roughly 3 liters of cider/wine to top off. Since then, I've let it sitting in my basement, covered in a black trash bag.

I tasted it last night and thought it tasted like wine. Am I just being nerotic or does it taste like wine because the chardonnay is less dense than the ciders and is sitting at the top of my carboy?

I appreciate any insights. I'd like to bottle this summer, so I thought I might be able to sweeten it up to offset that wine flavor with some lactose, but I'd rather figure out of my cider is spoiled before putting out the effort.

Nah I think you have the right flavor. I was shocked myself... I bottled when my FG was at .998 and it tasted just like a dry white wine ( I thought it was awesome ). Others have told me after tasting they can taste the apple but personally I can't. for refrence I used lavlin EC-1118 champagne yeast.

 

[Aschecte]

p.s. all I used was 5.5 gallons of apple juice and the yeast no topping off for me.

 

[Kshock]

It's not a bad idea. But it will kick off fermentation again, creating even more sediment in the carboy. What I do is rack to the correct sized container, so it's off of the sediment (lees) and top up with water, already made cider, or apple wine, etc.

Is toping off with a commercial cider beer acceptable?

 

[bembel]

Is toping off with a commercial cider beer acceptable?

More and more commercial cideries and breweries these days use Velcorin, so your likely topping off with a shelf stable sterile product and should be just fine.

you can top off with just about anything as long as it does not introduce new bugs that would create off flavors or spoilage, personally I use fresh juice which is usually UV stabilized - even juice with sorbate is ok.

One 'trick' I employ is to only top off with juice that I have previously clarified using pectic enzyme - this way you reduce the YAN you are adding and the juice doesn't cloud up the cider as much

 

[Cider and wine are fine]

More and more commercial cideries and breweries these days use Velcorin, so your likely topping off with a shelf stable sterile product and should be just fine.

you can top off with just about anything as long as it does not introduce new bugs that would create off flavors or spoilage, personally I use fresh juice which is usually UV stabilized - even juice with sorbate is ok.

One 'trick' I employ is to only top off with juice that I have previously clarified using pectic enzyme - this way you reduce the YAN you are adding and the juice doesn't cloud up the cider as much

Thank you! I was worried about creating cloudiness with a fresh cider top off, after doing pectic enzyme on the initial batch. I use the 1118 from Red Star, which usually rips along pretty quickly, so I’m thinking top off after primary, when I rack off lees to a clean carboy. If that restarts fermentation- what are the negative effects, if any?