Gee whiz, what are you guys doing for corn these days?

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Reading through this I’m really glad I had gotten a few pounds of free flaked corn via my HBC and a brewery that donated their leftovers to us. American lager and Kentucky common on deck for near future.

 

[day_trippr]

I get much better mash efficiency by pre-boiling "flaked" corn in ample water for 30-45 minutes prior to the mash. Certainly noticeable when used at higher grist %.[...]

Interesting. I rely on Beersmith3 to figure OG and when I use 30% flaked corn unprepped in the mash the predicted OG is always within a point...

Cheers!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Interesting. I rely on Beersmith3 to figure OG and when I use 30% flaked corn unprepped in the mash the predicted OG is always within a point...

Cheers!

Yup. Dr. Smith nailed that one, but Lizard is 100% correct. Dude knows his way around a mashtun, so I gave it a try and you can get some absolutely stupid efficiency numbers in Beersmith by pre-boiling (100+% on my reliably 88-92% mash efficiency fly rig). Obviously, pre-boiling is time consuming, energy intensive, and involves stirring (a task that I abhor), so I settled on a halfway point: I started closing down my mill and obliterating, as best I can, my flaked products. You don't get anywhere near the efficiency gains that you get by pre-hydrating, but you'll see a bump.

[Edit] Another nice thing about Lizard's method, is that it gives you a modest step in your mash if you start the boil after you strike. It's not going to help a whole lot, but when you're using corn you're typically driving for a fermentable mash, so it's nothing to sniff at.

 

[Dland]

... the only recipe I actually use corn is my continuing endeavor to resurrect the original Ballantine IPA, where flaked corn makes up almost 30% of the grist, with most of the rest being 140 Lintner Briess Brewers Malt (very handy stuff ) The 4th batch is conditioning as I write this while I'm enjoying the 3rd...

That's interesting, I never thought of trying to make Ballentine IPA, or knew it had corn in it. Once upon a time, I drank a lot of the stuff, but that was before I started to brew, so I rarely thought about such things. It's flavor definatly changed sometime in the late '80's, and not for the better, same with regular Ballentine Ale. In fact, one had to buy the premium IPA to get ale similar to the old regular Ballentine, then the IPA degraded below that level too.

If you figure out how to replicate the flavor, let me know. Makes me wonder how hard it would be to get the water profile for 1980's Cranston RI municiple water. [; Me and my pals that drank Narragansett beer always firgured that might be responsible for that brewery's distinct (and not necessarily great) taste. Still there was somethng about it that one got used to an fond of. Of course we all knew to stay away from Hefenreffer, "the green death"

 

[kevin58]

hmmm... I've got a 5 pound sack of dried, shelled corn left over from deer season. It cost me $6.00 a bag.

 

[user 246304]

I noticed I was running short on flaked corn and rice so I hit B3 and tossed 10lbs of corn and 5lbs of rice in my cart and literally LOL'd (then spent some time turning the air blue) when I saw what they were asking.

No problemo, I hit the local grocery store for some instant grits...$5.99/lb?!

Okay, not looking forward to it, but I can break out the old 3-gal pot and go back to cereal mashing. #*%&%&@!! You can't be serious?! Bog standard grits are more expensive than instant grits?!!

What the hell is going on?!

I'm writing from the USA. Our economy is in large part predicated on the cheap, plentiful availability of corn. Cheap corn is one of the defining hallmarks of the US economy. Why the hell is it so expensive?

Flaked domestic corn shouldn't rival the cost of Continental pils malt. That just doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I eventually stopped by ALDI with the intention of buying a bunch of cheap instant rice but noticed the jasmine rice for a few cents more. Yeah, it's high time I made a jasmine rice lager.

FU big corn!

I get maize from the LHBS for $2.25/lb.

 

[sibelman]

What's a "B3"?

This is a B3

 

[day_trippr]

That'd definitely mess up my grain mill

Anyway I was clued in about the B3 origins...

Cheers!

 

[Shenanigans]

Malt and adjuncts seem to be cheaper in Europe than the US.
When buying bulk for sure.
However, you get much better deals on US hops of course.

I can get a 5kg (11 pound) bag of flaked maize for about 11 dollars or even a 20kg sack for about 34 dollars.
1kg bag costs about 3 dollars though.

Best value I have seen is this though

https://www.raiffeisenmarkt.de/derby-powercorn-maisflocken-1030251

25 dollars for 20kg - probably also OK for brewing

 

[DaveDiedDancing]

Well, sure, can't disagree there are plenty of options when it comes to corn. But, that said, imo flaked corn requires the least prep - virtually zero, in fact - of all the easily obtained options. All the rest require some form of pre-cooking to use in the mash which is a comparative pita.

Aside from past dabblings with the famous Cream of Three Crops the only recipe I actually use corn is my continuing endeavor to resurrect the original Ballantine IPA, where flaked corn makes up almost 30% of the grist, with most of the rest being 140 Lintner Briess Brewers Malt (very handy stuff ) The 4th batch is conditioning as I write this while I'm enjoying the 3rd...

Cheers!

My grandfather used to drink Ballentine IPA before I was born. I would love to brew that. Any chance you’d be comfortable sharing that recipe?

 

[day_trippr]

Soitenly! I've never held back any recipe - it's not like I'm selling my beer!
This is my 4th and latest iteration that's conditioning right now while I'm enjoying the essentially identical 3rd batch. It has a familiar taste to it

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

Imma stick with Ritebrew, even shipped to Western MA.

I'm also +1 with @day_trippr that the BF recipe builder when I have even 30% flaked corn comes within normal Balrogish errors of reaching predicted gravity.

 

[DaveDiedDancing]

Soitenly! I've never held back any recipe - it's not like I'm selling my beer!
This is my 4th and latest iteration that's conditioning right now while I'm enjoying the essentially identical 3rd batch. It has a familiar taste to it

View attachment 849581

Cheers!

Soitenly! I've never held back any recipe - it's not like I'm selling my beer!
This is my 4th and latest iteration that's conditioning right now while I'm enjoying the essentially identical 3rd batch. It has a familiar taste to it

View attachment 849581

Cheers!

Thank you!!!

 

[whoaru99]

Thanks everyone for the excellent suggestions!

Made a run out to the fearsome land of Northern Virginia and its many ghastly drivers to hit the H-Mart and had a thought, "Hey, they've got a pretty good Latin American aisle. Wonder what sorta corny goodness they might have hiding over there?"

I ended up grabbing this: 7 bucks for 5lbs of pre-cooked corn meal. Ingredients list only "pre-cooked yellow corn meal, enriched." I'm assuming it's pre-gelatinized so I'll skip the cereal mash on it, but I intend to boil it on my first run, just to make certain it checks out. They also had a similar pre-cooked product for 5 bucks for 5lbs, but it listed lime on the ingredients. Not sure if that's the citrus fruit kind of lime or the raises your pH kinda lime, but I decided that there are at least some limits to my cheapness.

Behold! Corny majesty at nearly half the price of what Beer, Beer, and More Beer, B3, MoreFlavor, MoreBeer, MoreWhatever (just pick a name and stick with it!) is charging.

View attachment 849432

Considering cost of gas, hassle of the harrowing drive, et al, what does the total cost per pound end up at?

 

[Orval]

I got corn from a neighbour at 0.27 US$/Kg or 27

US$ for 100 kg...
It's too hot now but in the cold season, I'm planning to try corn plus sticky rice which has a higher sugar content that jasmine rice. I'll get it for free as we grow it ourselves. Well not really free but at cost price, because we have to buy the seeds, fertilizer etc....

 

[Bramling Cross]

Considering cost of gas, hassle of the harrowing drive, et al, what does the total cost per pound end up at?

Cheap as I am, I'm lucky to drive a sports car (a cheap Miata because I'm cheap) so gas doesn't factor in very much at 37mpg. Plus, I love an excuse to drive my car, even if it is to the hellscape of clueless driving that is N. Virginia.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I had the opportunity to brew with the PAN today, this stuff that I posted on the prior page...

I said that I intended to boil it on the first go around, but with today's surprise brew session I rationalized that boiling it will accomplish nothing because the goal is to use it w/o boiling, right? May as well just dump it in the tun and figure out if it actually needs to be boiled right?

Anyway, it performed flawlessly without pre-boiling l and I saw a 2% bump in my mash efficiency to 94%.* Mash-in was a bit worrisome, with the 2lbs of PAN and 1lb of obliterated ALDI instant rice. It was a lot goopier and far more viscous than a flaked mash, but it quickly thinned out and lautered beautifully even with my really tight mill settings for conditioned malt. I thought about using some rice hulls, but didn't. The point of this exercise was to see how the Pan mashed.

Two Borat thumbs up for PAN. It's cheaper than flaked, you don't have to process it to get the most out of it, it's more efficient, and it lauters the same as flaked. Great success! I like!

*I was actually a bit surprised that flaked corn, when obliterated in the mill, is only 2% less efficient than what amounts to corn dust.

 

[Bramling Cross]

View attachment 849327

Go team rice!

Jasmin rice lager sounds tasty.

Brewed a jasmin rice lager on Tuesday, admittedly with ALDI instant jasmine rice--so not the best representative of jasmine rice. Didn't get any jasmine in the mash tun, nor the kettle, nor into the fermenter. Will be several weeks before I can report on the final product, but I expect it'll taste like a rice beer.

 

[Bramling Cross]

View attachment 849327

Go team rice!

Jasmin rice lager sounds tasty.

The jasmin rice lager is in the keg and pouring. Not gonna lie, even with the super cheap ALDI jasmine rice, there's a little sumpthin' sumpthin' going on in this beer. Unusually for me, I exercised a very light hand with the hops on this one, to give the cheap ALDI jasmine rice a fighting chance. They're absolutely there and they play nicely with the knock out Hallertau Mit. They're subtle, but undeniably present. This is certainly going into the rotation.

Nice summer beer for when it's hot as hell and so muggy that you're regretting the fact that you jettisoned your gills in the womb.

[Edit: We also considered Basmati rice. Given that Jasmine rice has a pronounced flavor, I'm not rushing to try Basmati rice. I think its subtle notes will be devoured by the carbonation, even more so by the hops of even the subtlest lagers]

 

[MaxStout]

The jasmin rice lager is in the keg and pouring. Not gonna lie, even with the super cheap ALDI jasmine rice, there's a little sumpthin' sumpthin' going on in this beer. Unusually for me, I exercised a very light hand with the hops on this one, to give the cheap ALDI jasmine rice a fighting chance. They're absolutely there and they play nicely with the knock out Hallertau Mit. They're subtle, but undeniably present. This is certainly going into the rotation.

Nice summer beer for when it's hot as hell and so muggy that you're regretting the fact that you jettisoned your gills in the womb.

I don't suppose you'd care to share your recipe?

BTW, I never got to jettison my gills. Might explain why I drink like a fish.

/I'll be here all week. Try the veal. Don't forget to tip the waitress.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Ba, dum, paahhh!

Forgive me, I play stringed instruments. I likely got that drum crash all wrong.

I'm never shy about sharing recipes! As Tripper noted above, I ain't making any money off of this swill! You're welcome to any of the garbage I brew.

Here are screen shots of the relevant Beersmith sheets. Note that I lied earlier about using Haller, turns out I used Saaz. The yeast I used isn't 34/70, it's Jasper Yeast Franconian Lager. I was too lazy to write up a new yeast in Beersmith, so I just rolled with the copy/paste from this recipe's origins as Panther Piss Super Dry. I've contributed to a post in the Yeast and Fermentation section regarding this yeast. Suffice it to say, 34/70 or S-189 will get the job done just fine. I'm a big -189 fan, but I would prefer 34/70 on this one. Lager yeast tastes like lager yeast, don't think the Franconian is critical to this recipe.

Here's all the boring pictures, note that the first page is so stupidly long that I had to take two screenies to fit it all in.

Let me know if you have any questions, I enjoy talking about the nitty gritty aspects of recipe formulation.

[Edit: you'll also note that my volumes are a mess. They're not, actually. I went back to fly sparging when I bought my SS Brewtech Brewbuckets, so I suddenly became a lot more efficient. Rather than re-do all my recipes to account for this higher efficiency, I just left them alone, added an extra 1gal into my second step, and brewed for 7gals to fill my new, larger fermenters knowing that I'll run 1.005 fatter than Brewsmith predicts. It was easier that way. As you'll see, BS predicts 1.045 and I came out around 1.050ish. It was just way easier to be a slob and know that I'll brew 1gallon larger and 1.005 fatter than create a new equipment profile and change all of my hundreds of recipes to that new profile.]