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I do Josh Weikert's Dry Irish Stout, a crowd fav, with WY1007.
Top 5 Dry Yeasts?
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I've made "Irish" stout with K97, which is sorta-kinda 1007. It wasn't bad at all! I'm off K97 lately, but it makes me wonder ... how about Lallemand Koln? It's clean with some esters, and attenuates (quite) well.
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While I've used the Lalemand Koln, I've not used it in the stout. I'll look up my notes when I get back around them to see what the attenuation similarities or tasting notes were for the beers in which I used the Koln vs 1007.
I had the exact same thought. I might try his recipe for a session-strength Old Rasputin but using LalBrew Koln.
duncan_disorderly
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Nottingham is probably the closest dry yeast to the liquid Irish ale yeast, I think.
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ok, @AlexKay , the 3 times I used Lalemand Koln Kolsch dry I got avg 83% apparent attenuation. About 1.050 to about 1.008. The first time was straight from the packet, the other 2 times I first made a starter for greater pitch rate and overbuild saving, then made starter with the saved, and both times I got 84% apparent attenuation. All 3 times was a simple pale ale.
WHen I made the Dry Irish Stouts with WY1007, I get 72-75% apparent attenuation; 72% first gen overbuild, 75% succeeding overbuilds.
Subsequently, should I decide to use Lalemand Koln in the stout recipe, I would make adjustments, at the least for the attenuation, and I might think about adjusting for the anticipated thinness, although the whole idea is a dry, light, but roasty beer.
I was just listening to an episode of the Experimental Brewing podcast, an episode called "Doubly Bitter with Bob". The guest was talking about a recent trip to Belgium, and one thing he said that I found quite interesting was how many homebrewers, Americans especially, might be surprised just how many Belgian breweries use dry yeast. De Ranke in particular was the focus of the discussion and it sounds like they use a blend of two dry strains, one of which might be S-33, which I suppose would make more sense as to why it's marketed by Fermentis as a Belgian strain. Even though it's maybe not Belgian in origin I wonder how often it's used because of a certain flavor component it brings, and likely blended with something else that could provide the attenuation. Either that, or I wonder how much they could offset the typical attenuation with a strain like that by using a combination of lower mash temps, higher fermentation temps, and a decent sized dose of simple sugars.
I'm curious as to how much of the so-called "Belgian" beer characteristics are less derived from yeast origin and more so a function of overall process. It sounds like many of the brewers there are not as precious about their yeast as we might assume in terms of using some magical holy grail strain. But mostly just want something that gets the job done simply and reliably.
I'm curious as to how much of the so-called "Belgian" beer characteristics are less derived from yeast origin and more so a function of overall process. It sounds like many of the brewers there are not as precious about their yeast as we might assume in terms of using some magical holy grail strain. But mostly just want something that gets the job done simply and reliably.
I’ve been considering lately the idea to brew some of the since retired Stone beers from The Craft of Stone Brewing Co book. I know WLP007 has been the go-to yeast for cloning Stone beers and it’s a yeast I’ve personally used and enjoyed a bunch. I’ve heard some talk about S-04 being considered a good substitute. I’m curious as to whether those who’ve used S-04 a lot would agree. Or would Nottingham perhaps be a better choice? I feel like the Stone beers always had a noticeable yet subtle English ester character. Any advice for bringing a bit of that out of S-04 and/or Nottingham?
Edit: I read in this article that Mitch Steele uses S-04 in his brewpub’s English porter. He recommends pitching at 68F and letting it rise to 72F, which seems to be pretty in line with the fermentation temp he would give for Stone recipes in the past.
Edit: I read in this article that Mitch Steele uses S-04 in his brewpub’s English porter. He recommends pitching at 68F and letting it rise to 72F, which seems to be pretty in line with the fermentation temp he would give for Stone recipes in the past.
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Definitely curious about this one. What did you make and how did it turn out?
So even though it's not a Belgian yeast, I've recently used BE-256 for a strong Belgian Golden ale and a Belgian Dark Strong ale. The dark is still aging, but it went from 1.084 to 1.012 pretty fast. The golden went from 1.075 to 1.012, but it ended up with a lot more fruity sweetness than I was expecting (or really wanted). Fermented in my basement where ambient is <68F. Temp of FV never got above 76.
1. American Ale US05
2. English Ale Nottingham
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) MJ M31
4. All-purpose Lager MJ M54
5. Random one you just really love. Kveik Voss
2. English Ale Nottingham
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) MJ M31
4. All-purpose Lager MJ M54
5. Random one you just really love. Kveik Voss
Not quite a year later, and my four favorite yeasts are still my four favorite yeasts. But #5 is changed completely, and I now use Lallemand Koln instead ... again for cream ale and Grodziskie, plus Kolsch, pre-Pro porter, and CA Common. And now that Sourvisiae is available in 10-gram packs, I'm using it exclusively instead of Philly Sour.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
It wasn't the best beer for comparing yeasts - normally I put every "new" yeast through a split batch of SMASH-ish pale just to get a feel for BE-256 against other yeasts in a fairly "clean" background, but it ended up in a sort-of Anglicised version of Rochefort 10 - 7.4%, 7% DRC plus crystal, torrified wheat, bit of part-caramelised soft brown sugar. Ripped through it (with a bit of overflow) in 3 days whilst I was away on a long weekend, ended at 1.009 for 86% apparent attenuation.
The beer's not quite what I wanted for other reasons but is still nice, not as good as harvested Rochefort but then not many yeast are, but I'm happy with it as far as lab yeast goes and will definitely be giving it a fairer trial in a beer that's more revealing.
duncan_disorderly
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Any feedback on this? What the beer is, how it turned out, yeast perceptions? Thanks.
duelerx
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I have been on some hiatus because of work, but now that I'm back I'm surprised by the new love of Diamond Lager instead of W34/70 (marketed a lot by Bruloshophers).
1. American Ale: Lutra, I know some people love to brew Lager styles using this yeast, but flavor profile wise this has been the perfect yeast for clean ale styles as Blonde Ale or Cream Ale. Seconded to old Notti, never fails.
2. English Ale: Verdant, always loved 1318 and Verdant has been the best dry alternative.
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically): no comments, still have not found a house Belgian yeast.
4. All-purpose Lager: It used to be W34 and now use Diamond.
5. Random one you just really love: Lutra and second to Verdant. Useful yeast I have in hand are CBC-1 and Red Star.
1. American Ale: Lutra, I know some people love to brew Lager styles using this yeast, but flavor profile wise this has been the perfect yeast for clean ale styles as Blonde Ale or Cream Ale. Seconded to old Notti, never fails.
2. English Ale: Verdant, always loved 1318 and Verdant has been the best dry alternative.
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically): no comments, still have not found a house Belgian yeast.
4. All-purpose Lager: It used to be W34 and now use Diamond.
5. Random one you just really love: Lutra and second to Verdant. Useful yeast I have in hand are CBC-1 and Red Star.
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1. American Ale - US-05
2. English Ale - Also a Tie between US-04 and Nottingham ... Whichever I have on hand or is cheaper when I go and shop for it
3. Belgian Ale - (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) - Saison BE-134, Strong Ale BE-256, The Rest Either T-58 or a Kveik Strain like Voss or Framgarden
4. All-purpose - Lager W-34/70 or Mangrove Jack M76 and lately Lutra Kveik (ferment fast and keg then lager - overall time is shorter)
5. Random one you just really love. - anything oddball that you wouldn't normally think would work
2. English Ale - Also a Tie between US-04 and Nottingham ... Whichever I have on hand or is cheaper when I go and shop for it
3. Belgian Ale - (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) - Saison BE-134, Strong Ale BE-256, The Rest Either T-58 or a Kveik Strain like Voss or Framgarden
4. All-purpose - Lager W-34/70 or Mangrove Jack M76 and lately Lutra Kveik (ferment fast and keg then lager - overall time is shorter)
5. Random one you just really love. - anything oddball that you wouldn't normally think would work
hiphoppotamuss
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Love this thread!
What would be your go-to for these styles/categories?
1. American Ale - Haven’t found one yet. Not crazy about US-05 Tend to go liquid.. if I had to go dry, I’d use Nottingham even in US style ales.
2. English Ale - Nottingham, S-04 distant second
3. Belgian Ale - Made arguably my best Tripel ever with M31. Highly recommend
4. All-purpose Lager - 34/70
5. Random one you just really love. 34/70. Love it for lagers, pseudolagers, porters, cream ales. You name it. Great yeast.
anyone found a good Scottish ale dry yeast??
What would be your go-to for these styles/categories?
1. American Ale - Haven’t found one yet. Not crazy about US-05 Tend to go liquid.. if I had to go dry, I’d use Nottingham even in US style ales.
2. English Ale - Nottingham, S-04 distant second
3. Belgian Ale - Made arguably my best Tripel ever with M31. Highly recommend
4. All-purpose Lager - 34/70
5. Random one you just really love. 34/70. Love it for lagers, pseudolagers, porters, cream ales. You name it. Great yeast.
anyone found a good Scottish ale dry yeast??
I was very happy with my Scottish ale that used S-04 yeast. It aged well also, tasting great after like 5 years (bottled a very big batch and held onto a few).
BrewnWKopperKat
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What are people using in place of London? Windsor seems like the obvious choice, but I have not had good results/luck with it in the past.
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@Miraculix , in his Classic English Ale recipe, recommended a 1/2 & 1/2 of dry Verdant and Notty, and it is quite nice.
I use a Nottingham look alike call Midland.
S-33 should get you really close. Or try Windsor like you say, but mash low and long overnight, and/or add a pound of plain sugar to bring the OG higher to compensate for the high FG you'll get.
Nowadays, I would lower the verdant percentage a bit further, probably about 1/3 or even 1/4 verdant and the rest notti.
Are they pitched at the same time, or do you stagger the pitching?
Same time.
BrewnWKopperKat
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I'm currently not an overnight masher. With Windsor, how low / long would you suggest for a brew day mash? start at 148* for 60 min?
@Miraculix : thank you for the ideas for blends!
Try 148° for two hours. Or mash in before you go run errands or go to work, and runoff and finish the batch later in the evening, something like that.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
... this reply is not exactly on topic, although WLP001 (dry) has a chance to become on of my top five favorites in 2024.
and some background: over the last six months, I've been brewing a number of batches to observe BRY-97, Apex San Diego, and WLP001 (dry). I'm starting to like how WLP001 (dry) behaves during fermentation.
I'm finishing up my 3rd recent fermentation with WLP001 (dry). When looking at starting temperature, fermentation time, and flocculation, I'm seeing a very different yeast than US-05.
I'm pitching WLP001 (dry) at 67F (2.0 or 2.5 gal batches), it's active in under 18 hours, visible fermentation finishes about 3 days later, it drops clear on it's own, and stays on the bottom (which is helpful when bottling direct from the fermenter.
and some background: over the last six months, I've been brewing a number of batches to observe BRY-97, Apex San Diego, and WLP001 (dry). I'm starting to like how WLP001 (dry) behaves during fermentation.
I'm finishing up my 3rd recent fermentation with WLP001 (dry). When looking at starting temperature, fermentation time, and flocculation, I'm seeing a very different yeast than US-05.
I'm pitching WLP001 (dry) at 67F (2.0 or 2.5 gal batches), it's active in under 18 hours, visible fermentation finishes about 3 days later, it drops clear on it's own, and stays on the bottom (which is helpful when bottling direct from the fermenter.
What are you getting for average apparent attenuation? Is it less than 80%?
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
With a recent early 2000s SNPA-ish Pale Ale recipe, probably 77 - 80%
91% two row; 4.5% carapils & 60L
BIAB, double crush; 45 min mash starting at 154, down to 152;
OG 56 using a refractometer
FG 12-ish using a final gravity / finishing hydrometer.
Here's a quick OG/FG/AA table for near by OG/FG numbers.
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eta: missing table
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Good to hear! I have a pack waiting in the fridge ready for the next brew. Can't wait!
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