Top 5 Dry Yeasts?

[mac_1103]

So even though it's not a Belgian yeast, I've recently used BE-256 for a strong Belgian Golden ale and a Belgian Dark Strong ale. The dark is still aging, but it went from 1.084 to 1.012 pretty fast. The golden went from 1.075 to 1.012, but it ended up with a lot more fruity sweetness than I was expecting (or really wanted). Fermented in my basement where ambient is <68F. Temp of FV never got above 76.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

1. American Ale US05
2. English Ale Nottingham
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) MJ M31
4. All-purpose Lager MJ M54
5. Random one you just really love. Kveik Voss

 

[AlexKay]

Other: Safale K97 for altbier, cream ale, gose, and Grodziskie. I’ve also used it in some British styles, despite it being nominally a German ale yeast, and gotten results I’m happy with. Oh, and Lallemand Philly Sour is interesting, and I’ve made some good beers with it.

Not quite a year later, and my four favorite yeasts are still my four favorite yeasts. But #5 is changed completely, and I now use Lallemand Koln instead ... again for cream ale and Grodziskie, plus Kolsch, pre-Pro porter, and CA Common. And now that Sourvisiae is available in 10-gram packs, I'm using it exclusively instead of Philly Sour.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Definitely curious about this one. What did you make and how did it turn out?

It wasn't the best beer for comparing yeasts - normally I put every "new" yeast through a split batch of SMASH-ish pale just to get a feel for BE-256 against other yeasts in a fairly "clean" background, but it ended up in a sort-of Anglicised version of Rochefort 10 - 7.4%, 7% DRC plus crystal, torrified wheat, bit of part-caramelised soft brown sugar. Ripped through it (with a bit of overflow) in 3 days whilst I was away on a long weekend, ended at 1.009 for 86% apparent attenuation.

The beer's not quite what I wanted for other reasons but is still nice, not as good as harvested Rochefort but then not many yeast are, but I'm happy with it as far as lab yeast goes and will definitely be giving it a fairer trial in a beer that's more revealing.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I've currently got a beer fermenting with BE-256 which is one of those that doesn't get much attention - it might be an interesting one to try for British styles.

Any feedback on this? What the beer is, how it turned out, yeast perceptions? Thanks.

 

[duelerx]

I have been on some hiatus because of work, but now that I'm back I'm surprised by the new love of Diamond Lager instead of W34/70 (marketed a lot by Bruloshophers).

1. American Ale: Lutra, I know some people love to brew Lager styles using this yeast, but flavor profile wise this has been the perfect yeast for clean ale styles as Blonde Ale or Cream Ale. Seconded to old Notti, never fails.
2. English Ale: Verdant, always loved 1318 and Verdant has been the best dry alternative.
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically): no comments, still have not found a house Belgian yeast.
4. All-purpose Lager: It used to be W34 and now use Diamond.
5. Random one you just really love: Lutra and second to Verdant. Useful yeast I have in hand are CBC-1 and Red Star.

 

[Dangeruss]

A: Us-05
B: tie between -04 and Notty depending what type of beer
C: Haven't brewed a belguim
D: S-23
E: Red Star Premier Cuvee (for ciders)

 

[Wrendelar]

1. American Ale - US-05
2. English Ale - Also a Tie between US-04 and Nottingham ... Whichever I have on hand or is cheaper when I go and shop for it
3. Belgian Ale - (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically) - Saison BE-134, Strong Ale BE-256, The Rest Either T-58 or a Kveik Strain like Voss or Framgarden
4. All-purpose - Lager W-34/70 or Mangrove Jack M76 and lately Lutra Kveik (ferment fast and keg then lager - overall time is shorter)
5. Random one you just really love. - anything oddball that you wouldn't normally think would work

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

Love this thread!

What would be your go-to for these styles/categories?

1. American Ale - Haven’t found one yet. Not crazy about US-05 Tend to go liquid.. if I had to go dry, I’d use Nottingham even in US style ales.
2. English Ale - Nottingham, S-04 distant second
3. Belgian Ale - Made arguably my best Tripel ever with M31. Highly recommend
4. All-purpose Lager - 34/70
5. Random one you just really love. 34/70. Love it for lagers, pseudolagers, porters, cream ales. You name it. Great yeast.

anyone found a good Scottish ale dry yeast??

 

[dmtaylor]

anyone found a good Scottish ale dry yeast??

I was very happy with my Scottish ale that used S-04 yeast. It aged well also, tasting great after like 5 years (bottled a very big batch and held onto a few).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What are people using in place of London? Windsor seems like the obvious choice, but I have not had good results/luck with it in the past.

 

[balrog]

What are people using in place of London? Windsor seems like the obvious choice, but I have not had good results/luck with it in the past.

@Miraculix , in his Classic English Ale recipe, recommended a 1/2 & 1/2 of dry Verdant and Notty, and it is quite nice.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I use a Nottingham look alike call Midland.

 

[dmtaylor]

What are people using in place of London? Windsor seems like the obvious choice, but I have not had good results/luck with it in the past.

S-33 should get you really close. Or try Windsor like you say, but mash low and long overnight, and/or add a pound of plain sugar to bring the OG higher to compensate for the high FG you'll get.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix , in his Classic English Ale recipe, recommended a 1/2 & 1/2 of dry Verdant and Notty, and it is quite nice.

Nowadays, I would lower the verdant percentage a bit further, probably about 1/3 or even 1/4 verdant and the rest notti.

 

[Yesfan]

Nowadays, I would lower the verdant percentage a bit further, probably about 1/3 or even 1/4 verdant and the rest notti.

Are they pitched at the same time, or do you stagger the pitching?

 

[Miraculix]

Are they pitched at the same time, or do you stagger the pitching?

Same time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

mash low and long overnight

I'm currently not an overnight masher. With Windsor, how low / long would you suggest for a brew day mash? start at 148* for 60 min?

---

@Miraculix : thank you for the ideas for blends!

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm currently not an overnight masher. With Windsor, how low / long would you suggest for a brew day mash? start at 148* for 60 min?

Try 148° for two hours. Or mash in before you go run errands or go to work, and runoff and finish the batch later in the evening, something like that.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... this reply is not exactly on topic, although WLP001 (dry) has a chance to become on of my top five favorites in 2024.

and some background: over the last six months, I've been brewing a number of batches to observe BRY-97, Apex San Diego, and WLP001 (dry). I'm starting to like how WLP001 (dry) behaves during fermentation.

I'm finishing up my 3rd recent fermentation with WLP001 (dry). When looking at starting temperature, fermentation time, and flocculation, I'm seeing a very different yeast than US-05.

I'm pitching WLP001 (dry) at 67F (2.0 or 2.5 gal batches), it's active in under 18 hours, visible fermentation finishes about 3 days later, it drops clear on it's own, and stays on the bottom (which is helpful when bottling direct from the fermenter.

 

[dmtaylor]

... this reply is not exactly on topic, although WLP001 (dry) has a chance to become on of my top five favorites in 2024.

and some background: over the last six months, I've been brewing a number of batches to observe BRY-97, Apex San Diego, and WLP001 (dry). I'm starting to like how WLP001 (dry) behaves during fermentation.

I'm finishing up my 3rd recent fermentation with WLP001 (dry). When looking at starting temperature, fermentation time, and flocculation, I'm seeing a very different yeast than US-05.

I'm pitching WLP001 (dry) at 67F (2.0 or 2.5 gal batches), it's active in under 18 hours, visible fermentation finishes about 3 days later, it drops clear on it's own, and stays on the bottom (which is helpful when bottling direct from the fermenter.

What are you getting for average apparent attenuation? Is it less than 80%?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What are you getting for average apparent attenuation? Is it less than 80%?

With a recent early 2000s SNPA-ish Pale Ale recipe, probably 77 - 80%

91% two row; 4.5% carapils & 60L​

BIAB, double crush; 45 min mash starting at 154, down to 152;​

OG 56 using a refractometer​

FG 12-ish using a final gravity / finishing hydrometer.​

Here's a quick OG/FG/AA table for near by OG/FG numbers.

eta: missing table

 

[Pehlman17]

... this reply is not exactly on topic, although WLP001 (dry) has a chance to become on of my top five favorites in 2024.

Good to hear! I have a pack waiting in the fridge ready for the next brew. Can't wait!

 

[Pehlman17]

It wasn't the best beer for comparing yeasts - normally I put every "new" yeast through a split batch of SMASH-ish pale just to get a feel for BE-256 against other yeasts in a fairly "clean" background, but it ended up in a sort-of Anglicised version of Rochefort 10 - 7.4%, 7% DRC plus crystal, torrified wheat, bit of part-caramelised soft brown sugar. Ripped through it (with a bit of overflow) in 3 days whilst I was away on a long weekend, ended at 1.009 for 86% apparent attenuation.

The beer's not quite what I wanted for other reasons but is still nice, not as good as harvested Rochefort but then not many yeast are, but I'm happy with it as far as lab yeast goes and will definitely be giving it a fairer trial in a beer that's more revealing.

As far as I've seen in a wee bit of research, Rochefort is one of the few that use their primary yeast in their bottling, correct? I've never tried harvesting bottle dregs before, but if I were to try it out, Rochefort would certainly be my first choice. Do you have a go-to Rochefort style recipe? Brew Like A Monk gives a basic outline. Your notes above seem to match what little I know about it: Some caramel malts, a bit of wheat (BLAM says "wheat starch"), brown sugar. And I've read a tiny pinch of coriander goes in with the last hop addition (also according to BLAM). Start fermentation at 68F (20C) let rise to 73F (23C), then cool to 46F (8C) for a few days. BE-256 is next on my list to finally try. I've been rediscovering my love for Belgian styles again (probably IPA overload). Also, I like your idea of trying BE-256 in an English-style ale just to see what happens.

Somewhat related... I think I mentioned this early on in this thread a couple years back, but another thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is this concept of how much process choices and other ingredient choices really contribute to what makes a particular style. Belgian beers especially. Mashing for high fermentability, flavorful adjuncts, letting fermentation temps rise, bottle conditioning, high carbonation, etc. If I did all that but fermented with an "English" yeast I would still feel comfortable describing the beer as Belgian-style. I brewed a SMASH recipe a couple years back with all Maris Otter and East Kent Goldings, but fermented with 34/70 at around 60F (16C), and I'll be damned if that beer didn't taste English as hell to me and those I shared it with. This article makes a similar point at the end. One quote that has really stuck with me is, "Brewers are often a little too concerned with the origins of their yeast strains. Yeast catalogs have become vaguely pornographic, catering to every fetish. We are past due for a postmodern view on yeast and fermentation."

I'd be curious if anyone else has had any similar experiences in their own brewing where perhaps they were surprised by how well a non-traditional choice or pairing worked out.

 

[Miraculix]

As far as I've seen in a wee bit of research, Rochefort is one of the few that use their primary yeast in their bottling, correct? I've never tried harvesting bottle dregs before, but if I were to try it out, Rochefort would certainly be my first choice. Do you have a go-to Rochefort style recipe? Brew Like A Monk gives a basic outline. Your notes above seem to match what little I know about it: Some caramel malts, a bit of wheat (BLAM says "wheat starch"), brown sugar. And I've read a tiny pinch of coriander goes in with the last hop addition (also according to BLAM). Start fermentation at 68F (20C) let rise to 73F (23C), then cool to 46F (8C) for a few days. BE-256 is next on my list to finally try. I've been rediscovering my love for Belgian styles again (probably IPA overload). Also, I like your idea of trying BE-256 in an English-style ale just to see what happens.

Somewhat related... I think I mentioned this early on in this thread a couple years back, but another thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is this concept of how much process choices and other ingredient choices really contribute to what makes a particular style. Belgian beers especially. Mashing for high fermentability, flavorful adjuncts, letting fermentation temps rise, bottle conditioning, high carbonation, etc. If I did all that but fermented with an "English" yeast I would still feel comfortable describing the beer as Belgian-style. I brewed a SMASH recipe a couple years back with all Maris Otter and East Kent Goldings, but fermented with 34/70 at around 60F (16C), and I'll be damned if that beer didn't taste English as hell to me and those I shared it with. This article makes a similar point at the end. One quote that has really stuck with me is, "Brewers are often a little too concerned with the origins of their yeast strains. Yeast catalogs have become vaguely pornographic, catering to every fetish. We are past due for a postmodern view on yeast and fermentation."

I'd be curious if anyone else has had any similar experiences in their own brewing where perhaps they were surprised by how well a non-traditional choice or pairing worked out.

It is usually the biggest impact that defines the taste. So if you have a clean yeast (as 3470 at 16 c certainly is) plus english tasting grains and hops, your beer is very likely going to be judged by it's British tasting grain bill and typical English hops as the yeast itself does not deliver much on its own.

If you brew an Apa grain bill with apa hops fermented with a british yeast, you are going to have an apa.

If you brew a hefeweizen grainbill and ferment it with a saison, you are going to get a saison.

A clean American IPA brewed with a lager yeast will still be percieved as an IPA.

Beer is forgiving, just look at the dominator, that one is the defining factor usually.

 

[AlexKay]

American ale: Lallemand Nottingham. Safale US-05 is perfectly fine, but I find Nottingham to be cleaner over a wider temperature range, plus better at dealing with high gravity.
English ale: Lallemand London. Only used it a few times, but with very good results.
Belgian ale: Lallemand Abbaye. Just enough but not too much Belgian character.
Lager: I started using Saflager W34/70, and it’s been so good I’ve never been troubled to find anything else.
Other: Safale K97 for altbier, cream ale, gose, and Grodziskie. I’ve also used it in some British styles, despite it being nominally a German ale yeast, and gotten results I’m happy with. Oh, and Lallemand Philly Sour is interesting, and I’ve made some good beers with it.

I still haven’t found a dry wit yeast I’m happy with, or a dry weizen. (I made a good beer with Munich Classic, and then a couple of bad ones.). Most of the other bases are covered.

So it’s been nearly 3 years since I posted this, and both I and the yeast have changed. Somewhat.

American Ale: I still like Nottingham, but will occasionally use US-05 for lower-gravity ales. Both are objectively pretty good yeasts.
English Ale: I managed to stash away enough London that I can still use it now. I’m perfectly happy with Verdant or Windsor. S-04 is lovely in cider.
Belgian Ale: Lallemand Abbaye. Every other one I’ve tried is too heavy on fermentation character for my taste.
Lager: 34/70. I’ve also been using this slightly warmer for hybrid beers, like Grodziskie and CA Common.
Other: K97, but only for gose. I haven’t gotten Lallemand Farmhouse to work with fermenter glucoamylase, but I’m optimistic I will. And W-68 for _weizen.

 

[Pehlman17]

It is usually the biggest impact that defines the taste. So if you have a clean yeast (as 3470 at 16 c certainly is) plus english tasting grains and hops, your beer is very likely going to be judged by it's British tasting grain bill and typical English hops as the yeast itself does not deliver much on its own.

If you brew an Apa grain bill with apa hops fermented with a british yeast, you are going to have an apa.

If you brew a hefeweizen grainbill and ferment it with a saison, you are going to get a saison.

A clean American IPA brewed with a lager yeast will still be percieved as an IPA.

Beer is forgiving, just look at the dominator, that one is the defining factor usually.

I suppose my perspective on all this comes more so from the idea of not fretting too much if the “perfect” yeast is not available. That if you can at least get in the ballpark yeast-wise, there are many other dials you can turn to hit the mark for whatever you’re trying to accomplish.

 

[Pehlman17]

So it’s been nearly 3 years since I posted this, and both I and the yeast have changed. Somewhat.

American Ale: I still like Nottingham, but will occasionally use US-05 for lower-gravity ales. Both are objectively pretty good yeasts.
English Ale: I managed to stash away enough London that I can still use it now. I’m perfectly happy with Verdant or Windsor. S-04 is lovely in cider.
Belgian Ale: Lallemand Abbaye. Every other one I’ve tried is too heavy on fermentation character for my taste.
Lager: 34/70. I’ve also been using this slightly warmer for hybrid beers, like Grodziskie and CA Common.
Other: K97, but only for gose. I haven’t gotten Lallemand Farmhouse to work with fermenter glucoamylase, but I’m optimistic I will. And W-68 for _weizen.

I’ve yet to dive into the Belgian dried options. I’ve seen you and others post about being pretty happy with results from Lalbrew Abbaye.

Verdant is another I still need to try, but I have used New England a few times now and have been pretty happy with the beers it’s made.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I used mostly liquid yeast for many years, but these days its the other way around. I use WY3726 for saison and some times WLP 029 for ales but otherwise, dry

1.) Verdant any ale light/dark/hoppy
2.) S23 Lager with character
3.) S189 Clean lager

I thought the Koln yeast was good, but not great. Not as good as 2565 for sure.

 

[Pehlman17]

I used mostly liquid yeast for many years, but these days its the other way around. I use WY3726 for saison and some times WLP 029 for ales but otherwise, dry

1.) Verdant any ale light/dark/hoppy
2.) S23 Lager with character
3.) S189 Clean lager

I thought the Koln yeast was good, but not great. Not as good as 2565 for sure.

S-23 is another one that seems to have a pretty high variance of opinions about it.